Chris Kyle (US Sniper) - You see a hero. I see a devil

Originally posted by Wang Tang
reply to post by Lingweenie

 

That's a very idealistic stance to take, that killing is wrong and we should never go to war with another country.

What happens when terrorists start attacking our country and endangering civilians in their daily lives? Have we already forgotten what happened on September 11th? The largest attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor.

Are you saying we just let the terrorists attack us without even trying to chase them down?

Things get complicated because certain countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan, among others, harbor terrorists. When the ruling party of a country is allied with the terrorists that just killed thousands of your civilians, I see that as just cause for declaring war on that country.

Your obviously not hearing what I'm ultimately trying to say.

I am saying nobody should kill anyone for any reason in the first place. Murdering other people is not normal behavior whatsoever. It doesn't matter if it's for justice, in the name of god, or terrorizing for the sake of terrorizing.

To be passive and lay down your arms is the only way a giant, like the US, to be completely ran over. The US was brought into WWII by the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Bill Clinton was passive when they bombed the Trade center and the bombing of the USS Cole. The Mogadishu incident is another example of where we should have hit harder. Chris Kyle is a hero in my book, without those guys all our wives and daughters would be wearing burkas. You have the freedom of your opinion on here because of those guys, try it over there.
Sleep well, there's more Chris Kyles out there.

Originally posted by TXRabbit
Just a little venting here....

The recent killing of accomplished killer and mass-murder Chris Kyle has sparked a wave of fevered idolization and cult-like hero-worship across the nation.

American culture is massively effed-up, being fueled to a large degree by a savage blood-cult that is better known under the name christianity.

reply to post by Wang Tang
You should really research the events leading up to pearl harbor and look into the gulf of tonkin incident too, highly interesting stuff to say the least.
Regarding 9/11 there is not much you need to watch except this it's a breakdown of the collapse sequence of the twin towers (not some strange conspiracy theory, just based on engineering), if you still say the same things after watching it. I'm sure Obama has a spot for you at his table

Originally posted by caf1550
reply to post by guanyu

 

Having a standing army is pretty much a deter force so other nations wont invade your homeland and take the freedoms you have and you obvisiously take for granted. Its kinda like when you were probably bullied as a little kid. if you were bigger and stronger you probably would have been able to defend yourself so you wouldnt have to give your lunch money away. If you show your power they it will keep most people who wish you harm away from you. I can see your the type of person who probably doesnt understand what it mean to actually join the military and fight for something you believe in though. Keep spreading your hate from behind you computer monitor and keep taking for granted the freedoms that myself and countless others like me have defended.

Seriously, you are programmed.

It isn't hate. You might be shocked to hear this, but I love humanity, I love you brother. You make me sad.

Having moral integrity and speaking truth to lies is not a hateful act.

The fact of the matter is you don't protect me. The Middle East doesn't want my lunch money. I almost joined up in 2003, THANK GOD I DIDN'T. I believed all that BS about Saddam and WMDs. I used to argue with people about how the war was justified.

How embarrassed am I now?

I'm against the war because I have family who spent years of their lives there. I have friends who died there.

You can keep telling me every flag-draped casket was a good thing, and people like me saying they're death was unnecessary are "hateful, evil" people. How many more funerals do you want me to go to? How many more women shall I let cry on my shoulder, what shall I tell them? Give me a good patriotic phrase for that situation.

Every soldier says, "I know, but I let you sleep at night." Bitch I don't sleep at night. This is a horrible world because of violent people who don't think their choices through.

But this isn't about whether I'm a coward, or weak, or scared. You don't know anything about me except my opinions regarding a few subjects on this forum.

Truth is truth. "Aggressive conflict," or whatever the technocrats are calling it now, what we used to call "invasion," is wrong. The current wars around the world are wrong. They've been wrong for a long time. This is now known without a shadow of a doubt.

It's about what is right. What is right just is.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by RedbeardedFoo

 

Psychopaths aren't allowed to become snipers,they wouldn't make it through Navy basic very well much less BUDS.But wait what are YOUR credentials?
You seem a tad bit neurotic at least hoplophobic,unless you're below the age of 20 in which case we pet you on the head and say OK.
If not I recognize a reflexive contrary response when I see one,You aren't moved by little things like facts and reality

Keep telling yourself that, everything will be alright in the morning after your done eating your blue pill sheep

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

What about the White Death?
He killed 505 people.


en.wikipedia.org...

During the Winter War (1939–1940) between Finland and the Soviet Union, Häyhä served as a sniper for the Finnish Army against the Red Army in the 6th Company of JR 34 on the Kollaa River.

I'd say he did a very good job.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr
It takes a lot of guts to speak out against an "American hero" especially after they are killed. .

edit on 20-2-2013 by LazarusTsiyr because: (no reason given)

The same amount of "guts" it takes to hide behind a mask?

Originally posted by RedbeardedFoo
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

I don't understand, so you like to hang out with people that have no problem blowing another humans brains out because there armed and terrified of the invading force that has without probable cause come to there country and bombed raped and pillaged like Vikings, nice! u sound classy

You need to do some research on the Taliban, who they are, what they're about, and what they like to do to people..ordinary innocent men women and children.

Trying to be morally superior is great and all, but it denotes arrogance and ignorance.

You get this attitude all the time from people who know squat about the actual conflict going on in Afghanistan. Like the Taliban are some kind of honorable resistance force fending off the evil invaders and protecting the women and children....pfff! The ordinary Afghans are terrified of the Taliban and their brutal, repressive, murderous, medieval regime.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
You need to do some research on the Taliban, who they are, and what they like to do to people.

edit on 21-2-2013 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)

I've seen what we do in Guantanamo Bay, and that's what they let us see.

I know what our corporations do to people all over the world.

Steve Jobs is venerated while Chinese people would rather jump out a window than live another day as an Apple employee.

You're right the world is sick. The Taliban is sick. But speaking of ignorance, how did radical Islam become a weaponized, political force in Afghanistan, again?

Have you ever watched Rambo III?

""This film is dedicated to the gallant people of Afghanistan.""

Yes, it is a very, very sick world.

reply to post by guanyu


Yeah great. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Again with the polarized simplistic view of reality.

The world is full of pricks, that doesn't mean the Taliban are a creation of the west, they'll take money and weapons off whoever gives it to them. So you think radical Islam is "our fault"?

Don't mistake my stance for some flag waving American. I'm just calling the Taliban what they are, scum, and the less of them walking around beheading school teachers, stoning women, executing innocent farmers who are freindly to coalition forces etc. the better off Afghanistan and the world in general is.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
So you think radical Islam is "our fault"?

Essentially it is. The US decides who is in power in other countries. If you want to see how quickly things can change when the US gets a bug up its ass look at Libya. Nobody rules in third world countries without Western consent, except perhaps Castro and Chavez and a few others who have survived multiple assassination attempts and have the absolute backing of China or Russia.

Iran was a cosmopolitan, prosperous nation in the 1950's. We instituted a coup. Now they're apparently public enemy number 1. The US isn't alone in this. Vietnam was originally France's war, just like Mali is now. The EU countries have their resource colonies too, not just the US. Most of the chaos in Africa is the result of a deliberate reworking of the borders to clash with traditional ethnic and tribal history, so as to create new countries with no identity and an extremely fractured population.

Whose to say exactly what we're responsible for, because it's all classified and redacted and history is rewritten and official stories are told, but there are all sorts of bits of information that when you step back, you can make out an image. That's for sure.

What you want is relatively small, drawn out, low casualty, high ordinance combat. Look at Project Fast and Furious. That was done entirely to prop up a rebel force and institute more chaos so that it could later need to be dealt with with more force, more weaponry, more high-tech police and military gear sold at the government level. All for the price of a few AKs and .50 cals going to some mass murderers.

This is how the Military-Industrial complex makes money.

reply to post by Wang Tang


That's a good point...but it begs the question of why soldiers and, indeed, even citizens condone by inaction or lack of protest wars they don't feel justified.

It's wrong either way but soldiers get paid to compromise their ethics.

reply to post by guanyu


I agree to an extent with you, you're historically correct.

The past 60 years have seen the US and her allies meddling in the middle east and aggravating the Islamic world.

Radical Islam, just like any other religious fundamentalism, is partly a product of this meddling, but not wholly, and I'm not going to delve into the world of religious extremism and my opinions of it.

Coalition forces are people trying to do their jobs, their superiors are the ones who bear the moral and legal justifications for how this war is conducted. The majority of coalition troops, and I would say the vast majority, are not there to kill innocent people, they are there to wrestle control of that country from the hands of the Taliban. The Taliban are fighting in Afghan for power, tribal control, and to impose their version of sharia law upon the populace, most of the Taliban fighters aren't even Afghani's, they are foreigners there to conduct a jihad against the great infidel. The Taliban will execute any man woman or child who does not comply with their objectives. When it comes down to the troops on the ground, the Taliban are the bad guys, no matter which way you cut it.

And yes I agree with you completely regarding the military industrial complex, they are the ultimate bad guys. And the military industrial complex has found it's golden goose in radical Islam.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
Coalition forces are people trying to do their jobs, their superiors are the ones who bear the moral and legal justifications for how this war is conducted.

I just can't rectify this.

I've kind of already posted a half-dozen times on why I don't feel this washes anymore, I don't want to look like I'm trolling.

I just think you're wrong.

It's like cops who say, "Sorry, I gotta give you the ticket." when you know fully well cops have full discretion to do their jobs wherever they want, whenever they want, however they want. You can give me the ticket, but don't act like God is reaching down and moving your pen and ripping off the ticket, you know?

Every individual is responsible for their own actions.

My only hope is not to make soldiers feel disrespected, or bad about themselves, or doubt themselves, I just want them to do the right thing when it comes time to choose. When it really comes down to you, I hope you do the right thing.

That's all, really.

hero or not he was good at what he did. its not that people him, they just dont care either way.

reply to post by guanyu


I understand your stance.

I know people who've served in Afghan, and everyone of them tried the best they could to survive and protect their buddies, regardless of their personal opinions regarding the causes of the war and how it is being conducted. Maybe that's just how combat works, put somebody's life on the line along with his comrades and they will kill whoever they perceive as a threat, this is compounded by the social bonds to their brothers in arms, it also strengthens those bonds. I know a Vietnam vet who says exactly the same thing.

All I can say is this, this will continue as long as there are armed forces and conflict.

reply to post by guanyu

You can keep telling me every flag-draped casket was a good thing, and people like me saying they're death was unnecessary are "hateful, evil" people. How many more funerals do you want me to go to? How many more women shall I let cry on my shoulder, what shall I tell them? Give me a good patriotic phrase for that situation

I never once told you that every flag-draped casket was a good thing because I hate seeing my fellow brothers and sisters in arms die in combat or back in the states. Im saying the guy wasnt a "devil" for doing his job and what he thought was right. This entire thread is made to just drag the name of a good person through the mud.

Originally posted by caf1550
reply to post by guanyu

 

You can keep telling me every flag-draped casket was a good thing, and people like me saying they're death was unnecessary are "hateful, evil" people. How many more funerals do you want me to go to? How many more women shall I let cry on my shoulder, what shall I tell them? Give me a good patriotic phrase for that situation

I never once told you that every flag-draped casket was a good thing because I hate seeing my fellow brothers and sisters in arms die in combat or back in the states. Im saying the guy wasnt a "devil" for doing his job and what he thought was right. This entire thread is made to just drag the name of a good person through the mud.

You are right, no one should speak ill of the deceased, it is in poor taste.

That said, we have a responsibility to decide what and whom we lionize. I think that is the larger issue with this sniper in particular.

It appears many conflate kill count with heroism, and this seems to be a rebranding of the heroism of the past, which implied selflessness and sacrifice, not efficiency at killing.

I believe that is the core of the issue, and the spirit of the OP. I could be wrong.

reply to post by TXRabbit


I served with Company C 1st Battalion 9th Marines. Due to a larger supply of 308 Sniper Rifles and LT 6 Pack that believed if you were from Texas you could shoot the ass out of a mouse at a 1000 meters, most of us could. Sent a run handing me the weapon saying, "Lets Go." To this day and I believe to my last day I did what was necessary. If KIA an enemy combatant mean a Marine Buddy went back to the world, I pulled the trigger. My thought is like a Monday Morning Quarterback if it was Me I would have done...The challenge is it was not your call, the if, but, I wouldn't is easy to just judge. The problem You have no idea what you would or could do. Try picking up parts and pieces of a Buddy to place his reminds in a body bag. Then you get back to us sinners and tell me what you felt.