I'm a felon, I've served my time...can I have my rights back please?

Originally posted by AutOmatIc
reply to post by onequestion

 

So you admit to being a violent criminal in your past and have now changed your ways....yet will remain a felon for life. Well I would say that maybe you shouldn't have been a violent criminal then and did the things you did.

Oh come on. Everyone makes mistakes in life. Why should one have to be branded and stigmatized for the rest of their life just because they got caught. We are all guilty of one transgression or another (or multiple) in life. One wrong twist of fate and we all could be like the OP. I think it's wrong to look down on them in a self-righteous manner and pretend to be better than them. No one is better than anyone else.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by AutOmatIc
reply to post by onequestion

 

So you admit to being a violent criminal in your past and have now changed your ways....yet will remain a felon for life. Well I would say that maybe you shouldn't have been a violent criminal then and did the things you did.

Oh come on. Everyone makes mistakes in life. Why should one have to be branded and stigmatized for the rest of their life just because they got caught. We are all guilty of one transgression or another (or multiple) in life. One wrong twist of fate and we all could be like the OP. I think it's wrong to look down on them in a self-righteous manner and pretend to be better than them. No one is better than anyone else.

You're right, no one is better than anyone else. But I will say it's still a pretty damn good incentive to keep people from being felonious criminals. Would you rather we all just be able to do whatever we want like kill, rape, murder, steal etc...with no consequences to our actions and choices?

Originally posted by AutOmatIc

You're right, no one is better than anyone else. But I will say it's still a pretty damn good incentive to keep people from being felonious criminals. Would you rather we all just be able to do whatever we want like kill, rape, murder, steal etc...with no consequences to our actions and choices?

Absolutely not and I'm not implying that at all. Still, punishment, no matter what it is, is NOT always a deterrent for crime and that's clearly evidenced by the high crime rates that we have worldwide.

reply to post by onequestion


You commited a violent crime, you dont deserve to own a firearm after you have already shown lack of self control.

reply to post by LoverBoy


Now that I do agree with!

reply to post by AutOmatIc


then by your definition I can judge people based on past performances...

Good that means all Democrats are KKK members who should be trusted

The means all republicans are Nixon type crooks...


So anyone who associates with either one should be branded this for life...


are you a nixon crook or a KKK members... after all they were adults and made their choices...

while we are using peoples histories against them...

The british are former Roman barbarians, who constantly conquer and expand...

Germans are Nazi's

Russians are stalinites...

Chinese are maoist who murder their own people

Americans are rebellious children

The french are conquers

The spanish are inquistors

the Japanese are imperialist who kill people because they can...


Am I forgetting someone....

I want to make sure I understand what your saying...

We know these types of people... they will do it because of X (not racism or bigotry at all)

this so called social contract is binding right... they violated it... they were punished for said violation... but not told to them they will have it used against them sometimes for the rest of their lives....

I really do not care if the OP killed five people... the contract that some try to take as the high road is garbage... sorry the deal was you did X you get punished for Y... not well you Get Y then we let Z take place.... Z is an additional punishment not covered in the sentencing....

sorry the rules of the contract specifically prevent adding on post conviction charges with out additional crimes...

Originally posted by ripcontrol
reply to post by AutOmatIc

 

then by your definition I can judge people based on past performances...

The means all republicans are Nixon type crooks...

A group is made up of people, people within a groups are individuals. Political parties like Republican and Democrat are especially broad. Making those generalizations would be stupid. Nixon was a Republican but not all Republicans are Nixon.

while we are using peoples histories against them...

Because an individual who commits a crime has demonstrated they cannot be trusted by society to do the right thing.

Germans are Nazi's

Not all Germans who were Nazis were actively involved in committing the atrocities perpetrated by Hitler's ss. Just take that and apply it to all your examples.

oops

reply to post by Creep Thumper


So...disgust?

Is it really disgusting? If so, how?

Look...i am trying to engage you in conversation here. YOu seem to have a strong opinion on the matter, but do a poor job communicating it. While it is ok to not be chatty about these things..you DO realize that this is a forum where things are discussed, right?

"whatever" is what i can expect from my 15 year old whenever he is left with no other option than to admit he is wrong. As what I presume is an adult, you should expect more from yourself.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I don't know who the hell you think you are that you presume to lecture to me about what you think I should expect of myself.

You should be examining your own household. You've got bigger problems than I will ever have.

You should talk to a lawyer about expungement and getting the conviction reduced to a misdemenor, You are not without options here.

Only read the first page, forgive me if I've reposted.

reply to post by ripcontrol


Wow, well that was a tangent, and misunderstood generalizations of epic proportions.

To answer your question though....simply yes. There are indeed times that we can and must judge people by their previous actions, for it is your actions that define you.

Sometimes people do learn from their mistakes and live the rest of their lives never making the same mistakes ever again. There are also many who never learn and continue to make the same mistakes and purposely, knowingly continue to disregard and break the law. Are we to simply ignore them? There are always consequences to our actions that we must always live with.

I don't always agree with the laws of the land, but they can be changed if we the people want them to be changed. The OP was complaining because he/she will forever be branded a "felon" due to previous choices and actions taken and made. That is the law, don't. like it? Then do everything you can to try to change the law. *shrugs*

Is it ok to brand a sex offender for life? Would you want to know whether or not a registered sex offender moved in next door to your family? It happens. I for one am glad to know and be notified when that happens so that I may have the opportunity to be able to protect myself and my family from people who have the inability to control their criminal sexual urges.

Sure some punishments and deterrents may not keep crime down but what is the alternative? Anarchy? Chaos?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Hopechest

 

Absolutely.

The government creates crimes and punishments according to what society wants. In theory anyways but it works for our purpose.

Absolutely! These laws are made by the people…for our protection.

There are 1,000 people on ATS who don’t want law abiding citizens to have a gun, so I find it a bit strange that there are ANY people willing to put a gun in this guy’s hand (no offense, OP).

What world are you two living on ????? Government is full of corruption and crime and you almost never see punishment! I'm society and I don't agree with your statement. The OP sounds like he got stuck with his body as the weapon(felony) due to his exercise/work whatever. OP you need to have those charges reduced to a misdemeanor if possible. He has done his time for the crime the punishment should fit the crime. All too often we get pooled into ONE area without understanding of the true essence of the crime.

You think the 3 strikes law is justified think again..

Are we rehabilitation people in our prisons or just using them for slave labor too..... big companies are making big money ..look up private prisons ... why did we make prisons ... who are we helping and why ..whatever makes you sleep at night I guess...

Try to get some peace of mind and indulge yourself with your family if worse comes to worse your wife can always pack and load or someone not living in your home..

reply to post by acmpnsfal


Were are not making generalizations or allowing for separation into details...

tut- tut- tut

A criminal is a criminal according to some here.... so we allow no separation of groups based on individual past behaviors....

Nixon was a republican... he lied and behaved like a crook... he was republican.... due to the fact of Recidivism we are forced for the protection of society, for our children... it forces us to use this measuring rule...

I noticed you skipped the fact the Democratic party was ran by and supported by the KKK in various areas... so for the same above reasons due to the fact of Recidivism rates, we can not accept their racism for the protection of society... for our children...

BTW, your using double think and not realizing it...

you say the group cant be judge by the behavior of the individual
then turn around and claim the individual will replicate the behavior because others in the group have

individual not equal group
individual equal group

how do you know the individual cant be trusted.... past experience with the group labeled criminals... you are applying the group label to the individual

(which means nixon=republican or KKK=democrat
or are you trying to say dishonesty= nixon= politician

so politician = dishonesty

and
kkk= racist= politician

so by your math
politician = dishonest racist???? )


the problem is the OP is right... do you punish a child for the rest of their life for fibbing to you or for misbehaving in class... after all it means they lie and misbehave so it is ok to continually punish them....

As for the germans in the example..... So members of the KKK are not racist if they do not participate in lynchings or cross burning...

I applied you example as requested...

No sir you also need to reread the post... You made a simple mistake in interpretation of content... (I.E. you didnt read it) took the mentioned personally then went off half cocked....

I have to ask what do you think I meant.... I was being sarcastic over the attitude of labeling people for behaviors of others in the past...

once someone has got out of timeout, the rules state that they cant have it used against them...

reply to post by trinityalways


Government may be full of corruption and crime but does it make it right?

No.

Three strikes is actually pretty lenient considering. Should we revert back to a time when if you were caught stealing they chop off one of your hands? Maybe ha, it might make people think twice before stealing again!

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by AutOmatIc
reply to post by onequestion

 

So you admit to being a violent criminal in your past and have now changed your ways....yet will remain a felon for life. Well I would say that maybe you shouldn't have been a violent criminal then and did the things you did.

Oh come on. Everyone makes mistakes in life. Why should one have to be branded and stigmatized for the rest of their life just because they got caught. We are all guilty of one transgression or another (or multiple) in life. One wrong twist of fate and we all could be like the OP. I think it's wrong to look down on them in a self-righteous manner and pretend to be better than them. No one is better than anyone else.

THANK YOU !!! Just wanted to re-post well said!

reply to post by ripcontrol

the problem is the OP is right... do you punish a child for the rest of their life for fibbing to you or for misbehaving in class... after all it means they lie and misbehave so it is ok to continually punish them

We aren't talking about lying children here, but violent felons. If you have comitted a felony it is not as though you simply fibbed about stealing a chocolate bar or anything. So in the case of the OP, and other felons it is indeed justified to strip them of certain rights such as owning a firearm for the remainder of their life.

Don't want to be labeled a felon and stripped of those rights? Then don't commit felonies. It's pretty simple and straightforward. And a heluva deterrent for people to not be felons imho.

reply to post by AutOmatIc


The Government is not held responsible for their actions, transgressions, crimes (most of the time) so how are we as citizens suppose to up-hold their laws? There needs to be a balance of justice within our system there is not at this time, I will up-hold justice overall not a” label”
What do you know about the three strike law how many are housed in our prisons for the “three strike law” and for what reason you had better get going back to school and hope along the way you don’t trip up and get caught!

Btw they still cut your hand off if you steal just not in USA anymore..

The laws are put into effect by people who don't want a black eye or a broken cheek bone. They come into effect around people who are non-confrontational and quite passive. The common thought behind your situation is instead of breaking someones face you should have let law enforcement deal with it, and if they cannot handle it, you push the case to the higher-up jurisdiction. There are no words which will make you feel better, the system is not human and is pretty cut throat, there are no stones left unturned.

I'm not sorry for your punishment, because no one would be sorry for me if I were in your shoes. I could have been many times and I opted out. I took the passive "pussy" approach and the way it sits today, I have my rights and I don't get treated like # when I get pulled over. It's hard to live like a non-barbarian, and you end up looking like a pussy in social situations. Let me be the first to say, you can call me a pussy in front of a group of hot chicks because I didn't break your cheekbone, but I'll be sleeping tight with my guns and my security and my money because I didn't need to lash out violently to prove a point to save face in a social situation.

If I need to lash out violently to save someone from being seriously injured, there would be no problem for law enforcement to write the report out accordingly. Unless I'm somewhere I shouldn't be and racist witnesses are making false reports, during which LEO can usually tell the difference and write the report out well anyway.

Cheers, you're already a dangerous man, what do you need guns for?

Originally posted by ripcontrol
reply to post by acmpnsfal

 

A criminal is a criminal according to some here.... so we allow no separation of groups based on individual past behaviors....

According to some here but not to me or to the government, criminals and crimes are separated into different categories irreguardless of what some here think.

Nixon was a republican... he lied and behaved like a crook... he was republican.... due to the fact of Recidivism we are forced for the protection of society, for our children... it forces us to use this measuring rule...

I noticed you skipped the fact the Democratic party was ran by and supported by the KKK in various areas... so for the same above reasons due to the fact of Recidivism rates, we can not accept their racism for the protection of society... for our children...

Nixon was 1 Republican, dig up some numbers on the amount of Republican party officials that are criminals and their recidivism rates and we can have this conversation. Otherwise you cannot make the case that even a quarter of Republicans are criminals based off one individual. I ignored your other examples because the explanation I provided works across the board.

BTW, your using double think and not realizing it...

you say the group cant be judge by the behavior of the individual
then turn around and claim the individual will replicate the behavior because others in the group have

I never claimed this.

how do you know the individual cant be trusted.... past experience with the group labeled criminals... you are applying the group label to the individual

One becomes a criminal, more specifically a felon, for committing a serious crime. Those individuals violated the trust of society and can never gain it back. If you cant do the time DONT do the crime. I'll make it easy for you. Nixon was a Republican who committed a crime however Republicans can still be trusted because not all Republicans are criminals. Whereas Nixon lost all credibility. The OP is felon, all felons committed serious crimes, therefore all felons are not to be trusted.

the problem is the OP is right... do you punish a child for the rest of their life for fibbing to you or for misbehaving in class... after all it means they lie and misbehave so it is ok to continually punish them....

One, children are extrememly malleable which is why we don't send them to prision. Two, those behaviors are not on par with committing a serious crime.

As for the germans in the example..... So members of the KKK are not racist if they do not participate in lynchings or cross burning...

Being a racist is not a crime, committing murder because of your hate is.