Turtles, snakes and lizards head toward extinction

Originally posted by yamammasamonkey
Funny how all the people who push evolution as a fact, are the same to freak out when natural selection is observed.

Oh ya bro because when velociraptor were around humanities biological ancestors were tiny snaks hiding in the ground or on top of trees, not only were the velociraptors smarter they had a greater brain capacity and could actually plan and communicate among eachother in a way when hunting, even had a sort of hierarchy. And not only that but there body was more conducive to evolve into something that walked upright and had opposable thumbs ie human form like.

Even given the die offs they still survived only had more feathers now then scales, and human ancestors were still just snacks for the greater part of billions and billions of years yet to come. And yet magically our of the long stretch all that changed, and presto our of nowhere we are the dominant species on the planet because of things which other creatures have had for much longer periods of time. If evolution is the theory of survival of the fittest and of natural selection then humanity would prove that theory false.

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by mahatche

 

GMO with pesticides look it up

You mean like the BT corn Crops that are now failing and forcing farmers to go back to pesticides? The use of pesticides and herbicides is going up with these GMOs, because they killed off the weak weeds and pest, and left the stronger immune ones which are ravaging their crops even more.

As I said, we are left to make stronger poisons to answer to a problem we shouldn't have.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Your evolve or die attitude is stupid because they shouldn't have to die in the first place, we should understand their role in the world and how it benefits us. What do we gain by being so reckless and irresponsible? You are basically saying "oh well, you should have evolved to live with out land to live on!" We are way better off with them here than we are with an extra shopping mall.

It's better to let nature maintain balance on it's own in a way that helps us, instead of your answer that leaves us entirely on our own, and dependent on a genetically modified waste land where we survive off synthetic crap. # that, let's not be so reckless that we get to that point.

Originally posted by yamammasamonkey
Funny how all the people who push evolution as a fact, are the same to freak out when natural selection is observed.

I think it's funny when people try to discuss evolution, while being oblivious to the importance of symbiotic relationships.

If you think we can destroy our surrounding ecosystem with out it having any effect on us, then you're in for a shock. We are not immune to natural selection. If we throw off the balance of the nature around us, we eventually go down with it. Humans have it in them to destroy themselves directly and indirectly. If we've forgotten than and lost touch with our role in nature, then we need to wake up and see the big picture.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Have you heard about this

tv.sky.com...

i watched this the other day on TV and this is spreading very fast on the nile crocs

just thought id put this out there

scary that some of the most hardy of creatures are at risk (id say man made) but thats just my opinion

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Yeah you pretty much nailed it. It is sad that things die, and whole species may cease to exist, but that is the reality we live in. Hell we are lucky we exist as a species that can actually recognize this fact and actively work to prevent or at the very least delay it.

I love Rogan, he is one of my favorite comedians, and probably the best martial arts commentator to ever live. But if there is one thing I disagree with him on, and one thing I would love to discuss with him, it is his description of the human race.

In that video he starts describing a modern city (LA in his example) as a cancer, and humans as bacteria. I find this funny because both of these things are "life", and as a result of living these things consume. All life consumes, it feeds on life, and there is no way to change that. It is the nature of reality.

I have always thought it funny that he always talks about aliens, and how they would react to to encountering humans (usually in a negative way). Firstly, I am pretty sure they would be overjoyed to meet another race capable of communicating complex ideas. Secondly, if this race has the ability to traverse the vast distances of space they would have had to harness some incredible energy source which likely took them thousands of years to develop, thus they would have had to consumed, and consumed, multiplied, and multiplied. I truly believe that a space faring races home planet would look like something out of Bladerunner.

So would they be shocked to see are world in its present shape? Of course they would not, because they more than likely went through the same thing.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Thank you for bringing this to attention. Your mentioning of us humans having a crappy record of conservation is hard to argue with. The irony of the this pressing matter, by our very studies, labeling these creatures as cold blooded and the stigma that goes with that term when referred to human beings and their destructive properties.

Irrespective of all the distractions of life, regarding any creature as inferior and pointless in our Eco system is a testament to the arrogance of our species. If one actually does some proper research you would clearly realize the complex importance of these creatures to co exist in a very refined natural system.

In fact as far as I know this planet does not benefit at all from our presence.We just seem to be taking as much as we can without properly understanding the outcome of our greed. It's simple. the planet does not need us to function, but boy oh boy we sure need this planet for us to function. Of course I am generalizing this statement by referring to all humans as " A holes" when there are the ones who care and try there very best to protect and educate the masses.

I wonder how many creatures were killed in the process of acquiring , processing, and manufacturing the raw materials to create this computer I am using

Me thinks there are some underground dwellers pretty unhappy right now
Expecting mass abductions and sacrifices for the next weeks

Snakes are too smart to go extinct.

They are too strong of a species to let that happen.
There is a type of snake that lives on an island.
That type of snake in order to survive,changed its color to black in order to feed off of the birds more frequently by using the suns heat to process food faster in order to be able to eat more and survive.

They are extremely resilient and will change with the times,hence why we have old world snakes and new world snakes.

Around 40 million years ago, smaller snakes appeared who had developed further, adapted to new areas and created new characteristics, and these snakes became members of the colubrid group, which is the biggest snake group today. Colubrids are some of the snakes that are referred to as "New World" snakes. One member of this family is the corn snake!

I am sitting 5 feet away from a new world snake as I type....his name is Dave.
He likes long walks on the beach and furry rodents and is my little buddy.

When talking about things that old going extinct...i prefer the cockroach go first.


Would I be surprised if we screwed things up so bad that they went extinct....not one bit but I don't underestimate snakes,they are very smart in a primitive way.
Here is an example of another species of snake evolving.
www.sciencedaily.com...

Presented without comment:

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by ohioriver


Most people have an agenda. I wonder if she has one?

I think she does. Agenda 21 springs to mind.

This just screams Agenda 21 and Habitat II wherein the Elites relocate people out of the rural areas and into big city settlements to live in high rise apartments. They want to keep the land pristine and human-free for the snakes and the Spotted owls, oh yes, in factd 9.5 million acres of land the Feds wanted designated as Habitat for the Spotted Owl.

www.theblaze.com...
www.infiniteunknown.net...

www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com...

www.flatheadtrails.com...

www.klamathbasincrisis.org...

In the article cited by the OP, here is the single phrase that points to Agenda 21...in terms of getting humans off the land and designating more and more lands as Habitats for endangered species

This makes habitat loss the biggest threat to reptiles

In other words, if an area has wildlife in it, humans are a threat to it.

reply to post by Openeye

I think he was going on about the fact that to another creature every other creature is a sort of bacteria, even the same species have inter species that do not co-mingle and are at odds for survival. And humans, well when have humans ever got along without one group trying to kill or subdue the other? Its like I said for every species that goes extinct another takes its place, snakes and lizards as a whole or genome are not going anywhere but specific categorizations in that genome are, there are plenty of snakes out there and there thriving just as much as humans are. Even in cities or urban houses you would be surprised how many critters survive and thrive but the average person will never really see them or notice them.

I have always thought it funny that he always talks about aliens, and how they would react to to encountering humans (usually in a negative way). Firstly, I am pretty sure they would be overjoyed to meet another race capable of communicating complex ideas.

There is that, but the fact of the matter is that usually when any organism meets another there is bound to be problems. If you take things by what is going on around you or has been going on for eons on planet earth that the fact of the matter is that one organism when introduced into a new habitat which already has organisms in it more often then not replaces, supplants or displaces the old organisms. It happens in petri dishes with bacteria, it happens on a cellular level, it happens when you introduce animals into a habitat such as the introduction of pythons in Florida. And even in higher animals such as humans...Well what happened when Columbus and the Spanish came to the new world to the original inhabitants?

So what are the chances that if a superior organism were to somehow stumble on to our neck of the woods, what would likely happen? In fact bad intent even does not play a part in it, its just the mere fact that in this universe some rules seem to hold true, such as water runs downhill and new matter displaces space, and time and even other matter it comes into contact with. And yes were all made of matter, our world is just a more complex continuation of the macro and micro world, we would not be exempt from such a rule or law or whatever you want to call it, however it would manifest itself differently in our world then in the world of atoms or even bugs and other animals, but it would still be there.

Secondly, if this race has the ability to traverse the vast distances of space they would have had to harness some incredible energy source which likely took them thousands of years to develop, thus they would have had to consumed, and consumed, multiplied, and multiplied.

No doubt some would. But you dont know that for sure, and even the whole cumulative knowledge of humanity is not even sure or vast enough to place a safe bet on what the next 10 years are going to be like, or even the next ten days. So how do you know what other civilizations are going to be like? Especially higher and more advanced civilizations? It could be anything from they would see us as ants and would not notice if they steeped on this planet, to they could be traveling around the universe in space ships using mind power and there ships are powered by unicorn farts and happy thoughts, and if they tried to teach humanity anything it would be like humanity trying to teach chimps how to do calculus.

I truly believe that a space faring races home planet would look like something out of Bladerunner.

So what are you saying that there cheesy?

At one time about 50 or so years ago people thought that robots were going to be like what you saw in the lost in space show, walking talking vending machines in space. And that aliens were going to be like something like what was depicted in the movies of that era. You know the guy in the silver tight suit with the makeup on and the antennas sticking out of his head who steps out of the silver flying saucer and says, we come in peace earthlings....Danger Danger Will Robinson.

So would they be shocked to see are world in its present shape? Of course they would not, because they more than likely went through the same thing.

I agree if they existed and saw this planet they would not be shocked, in fact we would be more shocked to see our-self's through other more alien perspectives, then they would be shocked about anything humanity has done or will do. To get a birds eye view of things that are happening on this planet as opposed to the ants eye view would be quite shocking to the ant if it was somehow transported to those heights, but not to the bird as its seen it all before.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird

There is that, but the fact of the matter is that usually when any organism meets another there is bound to be problems.

Well what happened when Columbus and the Spanish came to the new world to the original inhabitants?

You have a point, and there sure as hell would be problems when we encountered another intelligent race. However, the comparison to Columbus is actually fairly flawed. Columbus was a 15th century Spanish explorer/colonizer/slaver who lived in a world of limited resources, and archaic tradition. A race capable of traversing space would logically have had to be quite peaceful to achieve the level of cooperation on there planet to instigate the engineering projects that would allow for interstellar/intergalactic travel. They would also have no reason to conquer another species, as the galaxy/universe is at there finger tips and they would arguably have unlimited resources.

No doubt some would. But you dont know that for sure, and even the whole cumulative knowledge of humanity is not even sure or vast enough to place a safe bet on what the next 10 years are going to be like, or even the next ten days. So how do you know what other civilizations are going to be like?

Well one could argue there are objective truths in the universe, thus they are able to be determined through reason, logic, and the scientific method. If you listen to many futurists, such as Michio Kaku, and Neil Degrasse Tyson, you will see that many believe that a certain level of technology and social development would be necessary for a space faring civilization to exist. Richard Dawkins believes that even the biological prerequisites of human like intelligence would have to be very very similar in alien races, and I tend to agree, although I am not an educated scientist. My point being that there are universal constants present in reality that simply can't be "different" depending on where you are in the universe.

It could be anything from they would see us as ants and would not notice if they steeped on this planet,

Than they would be immoral. We are intelligent beings capable of understanding reality, thus they would have no right to think of us as lesser beings. Sure they may be smarter than us, but do you consider yourself "superior" to rural natives of Papua New Guinea?

It is a like a Christian or Muslim saying God has the right to do anything he wants to his creation, because his morality is greater, BS.

to they could be traveling around the universe in space ships using mind power and there ships are powered by unicorn farts and happy thoughts, and if they tried to teach humanity anything it would be like humanity trying to teach chimps how to do calculus.

I disagree, sure they would do and have things we would not understand, but that does not mean we are incapable of understanding. I mean think about it, there is a plethora of theory out there about how we can achieve interstellar travel, the only thing we are missing are the resources to actually achieve it, not a total lack of understanding of the science. If an alien being thought us a chimp, than we are chimps that know the composition, and mass of a star.

So what are you saying that there cheesy?

HEY! Bladerunner was not cheesy!

Honestly I think that is a very good interpretation of the future with some minor exceptions (i.e. flying cars).

reply to post by Openeye

You have a point, and there sure as hell would be problems when we encountered another intelligent race.

You best believe it, but people when it comes to this subject tend to be into two camps the optimist and the pessimist, and in between the two you have the realist.

However, the comparison to Columbus is actually fairly flawed. Columbus was a 15th century Spanish explorer/colonizer/slaver who lived in a world of limited resources, and archaic tradition. A race capable of traversing space would logically have had to be quite peaceful to achieve the level of cooperation on there planet to instigate the engineering projects that would allow for interstellar/intergalactic travel

Not flawed at all, Columbus did not by and stretch live in a world were resources were limited, he was just another in the vanguard of the society of the time the very spirit of free enterprise. And who can say what a race capable of traversing space would think and do, the chances would be just as good that they would peaceful as they would be a warlike race, in fact they dont have to be one or the other to any extreme degree if they just one day happen to stumble on to this little world things would change drastically just by there very presence.

They would also have no reason to conquer another species, as the galaxy/universe is at there finger tips and they would arguably have unlimited resources.

Why are we fighting a whole bunch of little wars all around the world for? Do we have to? Off course we don't? In fact the majority who are there are just there because its there job, and the rest well I doubt they think about it at all. And would it be considered war if a superior race and civilization decided to change a few things around here to better suit them, for all you know humans may not even be classified as being alive, just the way we don't really classify other animals to really be alive. The point is they could do all that just because there curious or even because there bored and they can there does not have to be any malevolent thought involved on there part. However looking at it from the other side, its a whole nother story. It literally could be something like when King Leopold of Belgium thought he was doing the people of the Congo a favor by colonizing there land and subjugating the people and bringing them to a more civilized way, reasons are subjective and don't necessarily mean the same thing to people who have been living side by side for hundreds of thousands of years, and sure as hell it would not mean the same thing to a different species.
King Leopold

Richard Dawkins believes that even the biological prerequisites of human like intelligence would have to be very very similar in alien races, and I tend to agree, although I am not an educated scientist. My point being that there are universal constants present in reality that simply can't be "different" depending on where you are in the universe.

Oh ya but here the thing. Were would you find any sort of example of that? Literally you could not, and all you would have to go on is based on what we know and how we are, and so you said it yourself. If life and intelligence has to prescribe to certain universal objective truths. In which case you can say that on some level they will be like us, so imagine what will happen if you were to meat a super advanced human society that has gone down this road before? I mean the way things are going and if you take a look around we as a species and a civilization have never done anything unless it benefits us somehow? The tone may have changed and the ways we go on about that, but its core and premise has stayed the same all throughout human history.

So again on what exactly would you base any of it? Especially when everything you have to base it on says otherwise. In all its a very nice theory, but like every other theory it and everything else that looks good on paper, it falls to pieces when it actually comes to be.

Than they would be immoral. We are intelligent beings capable of understanding reality, thus they would have no right to think of us as lesser beings. Sure they may be smarter than us, but do you consider yourself "superior" to rural natives of Papua New Guinea?

We are intelligent beings capable of understanding our reality, not the whole of reality. There is a whole world of difference between a rural native of Papua New Guinea, and your average city dweller, in everything from the way they think, to the way they act, to the way they life to just about everything else. Literally they would live in two completely different alien worlds and everything else is just subjective interpretations.

reply to post by Openeye

It is a like a Christian or Muslim saying God has the right to do anything he wants to his creation, because his morality is greater, BS.

Funny thing that no? You know what both the christian and the Muslim or any other religion and creed have in common when it comes to morality...That one thing is that they only care so much about it when its convenience for them, when its not? Well that's a whole different story. Morality is merely a matter of convenience, kind of how like the truth is merely a matter of convenience for the politician.

I disagree, sure they would do and have things we would not understand, but that does not mean we are incapable of understanding.

Well here's the thing, that is a very real and very likely probability. So yes you may have to contemplate that you and humanity are all incapable of understanding. With time that may not always be so, but that may be somewhere on the lines of hundreds of years to hundreds of millions of years.

I mean think about it, there is a plethora of theory out there about how we can achieve interstellar travel, the only thing we are missing are the resources to actually achieve it, not a total lack of understanding of the science. If an alien being thought us a chimp, than we are chimps that know the composition, and mass of a star.

Well as to that? Sure we have some fancy computations and when you get down to it even that breaks down into unknowable jargon and a lot of assumptions, in fact to think that we could possibly know the exact mass and composition of a star millions of light years ago, from our tiny rock of a planet is in many ways just down right silly. But hey the chance that we would have to prove all that any day this year or in the next hundreds of years are pretty slim because lets face it we don't even know jack about the bottom of our oceans or even how our society really work, and if you could traverse the millions of years to that star and actually look at it and get close to it, things may be very different then we calculated them to be. You never really know till you actually go there now do you.

HEY! Bladerunner was not cheesy! Honestly I think that is a very good interpretation of the future with some minor exceptions (i.e. flying cars).

If when that movie came out somebody would of predicted that technology would be making millions of people lose there jobs and millions more out on the streets living in tent cities. Well who would of believed them? But ya flying cars, almost as probably right now as that hovering skateboard they had in back to the future. In fact a hovering skateboard can be done even with the technology we have today, but who's gonna buy it when nobody has any money to buy things because they don't have jobs and cant really afford it. Funny how some things work out eh?