It's time to destroy North Korea...

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
reply to post by justwokeup

 

Since you justwokeup I'll understand that you think, or at least are trying to portray the "youtube" video as some sort of loyal North Korean kid's film school project. It was created by the State.

I also didn't say go to war either. But if you equate NK with other nuke powers or even Iran for that matter, you are still sleeping. Too many times the people that run my Country have cried wolf, doesn't mean wolves don't exist.

Perhaps i misunderstood you. The Op is proposing that the time is right for the USA to launch a first strike on NK to destroy it. I thought you were defending that position on the basis of that video.

Paranoid internally repressive regimes generate propaganda and rhetoric all the time. The more disconnected the states message from reality the more strident the propaganda. Its all they have, apart from the fear and torture, to remain in power.

Paranoid as they are, thier goals are in the real world and rational, if twisted. They want to re-take SK are spread their ideology.They do not want to become the 'now exterminated people of North Korea'. Which would be the result if they attempted to launch a nuclear attack on the USA.

The real threat from NK is that they sell nuclear material to non state actors for hard currency. Non state actors who's goals are in the afterlife. For those people knowledge of guaranteed extermination is not a deterrent.

The real threat from NK is that they sell nuclear material to non state actors for hard currency. Non state actors who's goals are in the afterlife. For those people knowledge of guaranteed extermination is not a deterrent.
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You saved the best for last. The only thing I could improve upon this is to point out that those who's goals are in the afterlife, by their own admissions, ARE in fact state actors. Unless you are calling Iran a non-state?

That makes NK a real threat. Should we allow NK to sell Iran a nuke? Is there a sanction that could prevent this from happening?

Honestly? I would much rather see the United States of America destroyed.
I know there are alot of good people over there, but there are alot of good people in North Korea aswell. There are alot of good people in Iran, Afghanistan, Libya etc. aswell. However the US governments actions has severely lowered the number of good people in many countries. Effectively limiting their chances of good people rising to power, and in the long run making it harder to create a better world.
Every choice, every action, everything that the US government has done to every other country, has done nothing but set them back further.

You call for the destruction of North Korea? I call for the destruction of the United States.

The United States needs to start keeping out of everyone else's business. Instead it needs to focus on fixing its own godforsaken, corrupted, greedy and powerhungry country. Its corruption is seeping into every damn country who deals with the United States, be it through war, politics or trading. You are destroying this worlds chances of becomming something more than it is.

Afghanistan, Iran, the third world in general are still several generations behind most of the world. But dont you all realise that all of us, were at that point somewhere in time? We evolved, we learned from our mistakes, we got better, we got smarter, gradually and steadily like it should be. We can not force it on other countries. It is something they must do themselves. We all did this. If you go back a few hundred years, the king of England wasnt any better than Sadam Hussein. Go back a bit further and christians were murdering women and children, because they did not accept the "holy word of God". Christians and catholics have been far worse than any muslim has ever been, or ever will be. WE HAVE ALL had our tyrants, we have ALL had our wars, which we learned from, which helped us evolve to a society which eventually realised that we were only ruining ourselves.

So for the love of god, stay out of other countries business, let them make their own mistakes. Focus on your own damn country and make it a perfect place to live, before you try and teach the rest of the world how to act and what to do. The United States isnt exactly a glowing example of morality and justice. Get your own # together before you start telling the rest of us what we are doing wrong.

Someone attacks you? Fine, destroy them. But dont ever throw the first punch.

I repeat.
You call for the destruction of North Korea? I call for the destruction of the United States.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by citizenoftheworld
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

So you are against war but you don't mind if your beloved country would take out another country swift and quickly just because you feel they are treat. WELL.....I can say a lot of bad things now, but I won't. You need to come of your high horse and back come into reality. Luckily you are not in any position of power, nor will you ever be when you talk like this.

Everyone should be against war, but there are times where war is needed. I'm not really calling for war in the traditional sense, I am calling for swift and precise military action to eliminate a serious threat to our nation, an actual, legitimate threat, unlike Iraq and the rest who were not legitimate threats.

I'm sorry, your posts are an amazing example of doublespeak, sir...

Ok, I see you are suggesting that we all pick a side in the battle of good and evil... That's basically the one and only reason for the everlasting war on Earth, and wherever else - picking a side... Now it's the time in history when humankind should finally recognize it. Recognize that the Good striving to control everything around to make it safer and "better" inevitably becomes the Evil... Or else its going in circles would never end.

One should look into the center of the Wheel, where there's no motion.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
The real threat from NK is that they sell nuclear material to non state actors for hard currency. Non state actors who's goals are in the afterlife. For those people knowledge of guaranteed extermination is not a deterrent.
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You saved the best for last. The only thing I could improve upon this is to point out that those who's goals are in the afterlife, by their own admissions, ARE in fact state actors. Unless you are calling Iran a non-state?

That makes NK a real threat. Should we allow NK to sell Iran a nuke? Is there a sanction that could prevent this from happening?

The proliferation risk is the credible real risk. However its the same risk thats been present since the regime acquired its first nuclear weapon in 2006.

Managing it requires intelligence services to be effective, hopefully they are. Theres no evidence that anything has changed lately that makes provoking a guaranteed Korean bloodbath more desirable than doing what we have been doing.

It would take something major to change the balance of risk to the point that intentionally re-starting the Korean war becomes the preferred option.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


Isn't that charming?

It's amazing that people can sit behind a computer screen and condemn 24,554,000 to death. Yet you claim to be against interventionist imperialism?

So you suppose the US do what, go in, drop a Nuke and then leave? Take no responsibility for the millions they will leave homeless and orphaned among other things?

North Korea isn't going to do anything. Their leader still has wet ears and all this nuclear test stuff is just pomp and circumstance. Let Asia deal with Asia's problems if you ask me.

~Tenth

What a ridiculous post by OP. Yep, in favour of a "quick" extermination of an entire nation just because of a dictator. First of all how are you going to do that without "weapons of mass destruction"? Are you going to fly a couple hundred bombers to level an entire country and watch it burn?

Nukes are not an option. A certain number of nuclear weapons go off and the world will be sitting in nuclear winter.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

edit: I am only in favor of this as long as it is swift, hard and ends the threat. I don't want occupation. I don't want to build schools. This action MUST be Constitutionally declared by Congress IAW Art 1, Sec 8 of the Constitution. I don't want to teach them about Jesus. I want to be in and out. I also think that the starving and oppressed people of NK would support us for the most part

edit on 12-2-2013 by OptimusSubprime because: (no reason given)

Seems to me that this is China's, or Asia's, problem to solve. The US should not and cannot interfere.

1) Because, as a country and, supposed, superpower we are unable to do what you suggest.

and

2) China is in a better position to effect this type of change.

I think you are showing a degree of native when you think that 'regime change' can be short, sharp and lasting in our modern global world.

In recent history the only sucessful 'regime change' has been accomplished by China when it invaded Tibet in 1959 (I believe that was the year) and that was only successful because of global disinterest.

Originally posted by needlenight


The United States needs to start keeping out of everyone else's business. Instead it needs to focus on fixing its own godforsaken, corrupted, greedy and powerhungry country. Its corruption is seeping into every damn country who deals with the United States, be it through war, politics or trading. You are destroying this worlds chances of becomming something more than it is.

Exactly, and they wonder where these terrorists come from when they're rolling around in tanks/humvees dropping bombs in their home countries. All of this makes them more prone to propaganda against the US.

Originally posted by peashooter

Originally posted by needlenight


The United States needs to start keeping out of everyone else's business. Instead it needs to focus on fixing its own godforsaken, corrupted, greedy and powerhungry country. Its corruption is seeping into every damn country who deals with the United States, be it through war, politics or trading. You are destroying this worlds chances of becomming something more than it is.

Exactly, and they wonder where these terrorists come from when they're rolling around in tanks/humvees dropping bombs in their home countries. All of this makes them more prone to propaganda against the US.

Yes, the world (not only the US government) is calling those who fight for their own country terrorists. While the US and some other brownnosing countries are the ones invading other countries.
The US are nothing but true terrorists and tyrants with a very capable public relations team. Its all about marketing.

The ones fighting the US and brownnosers, see themselves (and are mostly seen) as the good guys, who just want to live in their country, the way they choose to live. I dont care if you and I dont approve of their way of life. It is not for us to decide.

The US government is no better than the Third Reich and Hitler in my eyes. But what can I do? They have ressources and mass media to make everyone think that they are the good guys.. None of us really know for sure, what is really going on over there. We only know what we see in the news. Im not sure I can trust what I see.

How many nations are occupied by NK compared tot he USA.

Now tell me who is a threat...

reply to post by needlenight


Oh, no. Now you're on "the list." I'd keep an eye out for stray drones if I were you.

Originally posted by Danbones
I'm thinkin that NK is the closest thing to the novel 1984 of all the national states
its people are NOT to blaim for the situation, so I don't agree with doing them

for example
the bankers were invested in both the bolshevic and the chines communist revolutions...
the rhetoric justifies a huge US presence that many south Koreans wish would leave...

i wonder what slave labour in a concentration camp might be manufacturing and for whom
someone has to be building the secret ai drone robot army...where could you get more corporate security then in NK?

I just can't helping thinking there is more to this then meets the eye

edit on 12-2-2013 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

That sounds about right.

Why else would there be a total intel blackout? Apparently it's easy enough to get a camera crew in to see the people's assembly...

Are the people to blame or not? I mean... the people of the US seem to be held in question for not removing their corrupt leaders. Whats the diff? Now it is far too late for North Koreans, they are too hungry to fight anything other than starvation.

However, NK has committed crimes against humanity, against her own people on a national scale. Everyone there is a prisoner and slave, with no end in sight. Screw the nukes. Let's remove some heads of state. Literally.

I too am in support of swift and severe action in NK. Something should be done. Those poor people sell each other out for a rice ball. Should they be punished for allowing such a hellhole to exists? Maybe not, but this mess still needs to be cleaned up and they obviously are unable to do so for themselves.

Perhaps their leaders have sold them out for defense contracts, maybe that's why NK gets left alone. It definitely begs an answer. Sometimes I wonder if it's not just some morbid fascination or sick curiosity; like the rest of us just watching a dying man gasping for breath... or the birthing of some new abomination.

Maybe this makes me out to be a capitalist pig-dog or whatever, but in order to end it people will have to die. An army like that isn't going to just capitulate. Thing is though the people of NK are already dying meaningless deaths.

This NK experiment is just going to keep on until somebody shut its down. These people are so indoctrinated they would cut their own mother's throat if ordered. It may not be all their fault, but this sh-t needs stop.

For all of the folks that are saying "war is bad m'kay"... have you seen what they do to themselves and each other over there? Makes war look sporting. Turns out war isn't neccessarily the be all end all of human atrocity.

For any of you that haven't seen it I highly recommend checking out "Camp 14: Total Control Zone". It's about a kid that was born and raised in one of NK's prison/labor camps. He managed an escape.

Now, maybe I'm just full of rhetoric and propaganda but what I see from NK in spite of all the sabre-rattling and banner waving is human suffering on a level that is heretofore unseen.

Is there something wrong with wanting to see an end to that?

North Korea has been a threat to the entire world for a very long time and nobody wants to stand up and point out the giant elephant in the room. We sit here and wage these useless wars in the middle east while insanity like North Korea and Mexico goes unchecked.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by SpaDe_
I'm pretty sure the US has enough problems to deal with internally already, without the need for attacking a country that is more than 30 years behind just about everyone else. What is there to fear about North Korea? Ever thought about how people outside the US view us already? We need another war like we need another 100 million people to go on welfare.

I know first hand how people around the world view the US because I have been all over the world, and I tend to agree with their views. Most of the complaints are about the US acting as the World police force, and I agree with that. There is such a thing as legitimate war, although rarely seen. Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.. were not legitimate wars.

I think the term you are looking for is "Just War" or "Humanitarian War" - not legitimate war which would be a a war that is sanctioned, formally or informally, by a sovereign government.

reply to post by needlenight


Sorry the genie is out of the bottle, we live in a global community now. But if there were a way to put each Country under a big glass dome, or find some sci-fi way to ensure that nobody could leave their own country, couldn't touch another country and everyone become completely isolated from other countries.....how do you think the U.S. would fare? Last one standing comes to mind for me. Africa would be empty in 100 years or less. So lucky for them and soooooo many others out there that these glass domes don't exist. Let me know if you can find another country that has given away more money to other countries...more meds.....more aide.....can't can you. But maybe if you can convince enough people and countries, I bet the U.S. would be willing to take all of our money back since World War 1 and leave you all alone. I bet our debt would be manageable after that. I'm all for it. Most of America right now would be more than happy to not be pissing our tax dollars away over seas.

I tend to agree with you, OP. North Korea have basically been allowed to do whatever they want for the past 50 years, and it's about time that ended. At the very least a few precision strikes should show them that if they're going to have to back up their saber-rattling with some actual guts.

As for Seoul? Modern C-RAM systems should be able to handle whatever North Korea can throw. Iron Dome or Centurion, or give it a couple years and use HELLADS. The Norks might be able to get one volley off before they get hammered by counter-battery fire, anyways. The biggest issue with a continuation of the Korean war would be reintegrating the North with the South.

I am pretty sure North Korea has only enough diesel and aviation fuel to fight for a few hours. So if they ever decide to lob nukes at anybody, its probably that the glorious leader has decided to have his countrymen commit mass suicide. That IS scary because he seems capable of that.

No need to Nuke the hell out of North Korea and kill all of those innocent people who must act like they love their leader or be put to death. If it was up to me I would find out a specific time when that spoiled little brat leader of theirs is at home and bomb the living hell out of his complex. Goodbye threat!!!

reply to post by FTcorrupt


Ha ha, you said it. " AT " the USA. It will never hit them.