The One People's Public Trust & Sovereign Citizens Movement Scams Broken Down.

Originally posted by fourthmeal
I'm not going to get into it, it is the weekend and I've better things to do (and I hope all of you do too!)

But:

Here's some info - peoplestrustaustralia.blogspot.com.au... Not from Australia but as I understand it, that is from a politician there.

and another Guardian LV article, this one with a decidedly different attitude guardianlv.com...



Let's not forget, OPPT was vetted by Captain Zeleny. By all means, go with the heart on it and see what develops. Definitely not a scam though. Just groundbreaking and something we've not seen before, collectively.

Vetted by Captain Zeleny, a person claiming to have been asked to be the head of Defense for the Canadian Military however no Canadian Government Military Office knows about it.. Yeah that's the type of vetting I will listen to. If you can explain all of this and seriously answer the questions posed,without all the lovery dovery BE'ing and DO'ing and you have to look in multi-dimensions..., and there was one you keep evading, which is:

If you are pulled over tomorrow by the police, what would your response be?
a) Hand them a courtesy notice and hope that they accept your word on it and let you go or deal with you on your terms?

or

b) Do what every normal person would do and cooperate.

Don't preach about how wonderful this is, if you aren't willing to follow every last bit of it.. Sorry but that will no longer fly.

I've been following this thread for a couple days now, and from what I've read, this TOPPT movement resonates so much with that John Todd guy. He crafted a nifty story based on what his target audience wanted to hear, and even after being exposed as not only a fraud but a disgusting sexual predator, some people STILL kept supporting him.

I like a good story as much as the next guy, but it's not worth following someone off the deep end over it.

reply to post by vkey08


Thank you for the topic vkey08, it's interested me for years. What is your opinion on the "Kingdom of Hawaii" movement in HI? It seems that the sovereignty movement has a firm hold in HI. Even the legal status of Hawaii is in question in some circles, more of a U.S. occupation.

hrmakahinui.com...



www.google.com... ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1463&bih=707

Originally posted by fourthmeal
In it, Heather and retired. and reactivating Captain Deryl Zeleny of the Canadian Armed Forces are guests. ....and dig up what you can on this Captain, who served the Canadian forces for over 3 decades, retired, and was asked to come back and head Defense,

Do you actually understand the rubbish you are posting? I wonder if "Captain Zeleny" has bothered to tell General Thomas J. Lawson that the General is no longer head of Canada's defense forces....

This person of very high standing "vets" OPPT

He does? Exactly where did he serve, what units has he commanded? Who appointed him head of Canada's defense force? When exactly was he appointed, and how come no one else knows of his appointment?

or are you going to call it a scam still?

Well, it is still a scam so it will continue to be called that.

Because at this point, calling it a scam makes ATS look very silly.

Wrong again actually, not calling it a scam makes those people look very silly!

Yes, thank you, vkey08, for this thread and expose. We had a friend who bought into this stuff, but it seemed he only wanted to get out of traffic tickets and paying for vehicle registrations, licenses, and child support payments.

He also believed that UN troops were going to invade his tiny community at the millennium, and he told me my new sofa had a small device built into it, so the govt could listen and find out where I lived. He was a character, fun to be around, and would help us out as any good friend would. But he was delusional.

I'm pretty sure my feelings on this are noted:

1. have a bunch of IRS, child support, and creditor/misc debt...

2. file paperwork, tie up legal system (a few years)

3. end up still paying/in jail...

Your mortgage was paid in full probably before you moved into your new home. If you fall behind in the "payments" they try and steal YOUR property which they have zero possessory rights. This is proof that some police know their job. Bailiffs have virtually ZERO rights unless you consent WAKE UP!!!! Thansk to someones hard work here is most of the decent case law for bailiffs as well. They have zero power if you provide them and the police with the facts. Any possession threat needs to be defended with all this information as to abandon your property will allow them to steal your property

www.youtube.com... THE PEOPLE v THE BANKS: Conviction beats Eviction

Originally posted by The Undertaker
reply to post by vkey08

 

Thank you for the topic vkey08, it's interested me for years. What is your opinion on the "Kingdom of Hawaii" movement in HI? It seems that the sovereignty movement has a firm hold in HI. Even the legal status of Hawaii is in question in some circles, more of a U.S. occupation.

hrmakahinui.com...



www.google.com... ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1463&bih=707

I have a lot of friends in Hawa'ii and I'm kind of tossed on this one. Hawa'ii's situation is such that if the actual evidence came forward that the United States Government executed a reigning monarch, just so it could annex the territory and make it a state (again this story is debated, so it's still in limbo) then the United States should probably give Hawa'ii back OR allow the state to have a Puerto Rico style referendum on the subject.

Seeing as right now there's really no hard evidence either way, until there is, I'm afraid that the status of the state is going to remain in question.

Which brings me to Puerto Rico, granted to the United States along with Cuba by Spain. We let Cuba go free (lookie what happened) and kept Puerto Rico (which I am glad of because without I would not be a US Citizen , being born in Japan, of a Japanese mom and a PR dad) but Puerto Rico is an enigma in our sytem of government, it is a teritorry but not, it's a Commonwealth (by name) but it's not, as Massachusetts, Virginia, Kentucky et al are all also states) the people are citizens, but not as they have no representation in Congress save a permanent observer, although like a State, they have a governor. That's the bigger mess than Hawa'ii, IMO..

Originally posted by jointheresistance1
Your mortgage was paid in full probably before you moved into your new home. If you fall behind in the "payments" they try and steal YOUR property which they have zero possessory rights. This is proof that some police know their job. Bailiffs have virtually ZERO rights unless you consent WAKE UP!!!! Thansk to someones hard work here is most of the decent case law for bailiffs as well. They have zero power if you provide them and the police with the facts. Any possession threat needs to be defended with all this information as to abandon your property will allow them to steal your property

www.youtube.com... THE PEOPLE v THE BANKS: Conviction beats Eviction

ERZZZZZZZ Wrong...
This little clip has been shown over and over int his thread and it's been proven that in the end, you are wrong. If you borrow money from someone, and pledge you house as collateral, then you lose yer home if you do not pay, its pretty simple. And in the United States, we don't' have bailiffs that come out to your home, we have either Police or Sheriff's and both of them know what the rules are...

reply to post by vkey08


why bother? As I previously mentioned, it is very clear that the folks promoting this are doing so to get a rise out of the site. There's no way that any sane person, anyone with a couple of brain cells, would know that the filings, like the most recently posted Romney doc, are being prepared as a joke, to see who can come up with the most outlandish,ludicrous docs.

reply to post by Crakeur


I think at this point it's morbid curiosity. My question stands to all the supporters though:

Will you practice what you are preaching?

The question is: When confronted with a traffic stop, what will you do?

Will you hand the cop a courtesy notice, as TOPPT claims you should OR will you do the rational thing and cooperate. It's a simple question... So far without an answer by any TOPPT supporter. So now's the time, if you so believe this, then you are all willing to go the 100% yes? I don't think any of you are.

Therefore this is now a moot point and since no-one wants to martyr themselves with an Import/Export/ThreeMonthPseudoBanker/NewAgeTruckkerGuru then Crakeur is right this all become academic.

The OP is missing the point of the Freeman Admiralty Law Allodial Property argument.

First, is reality dictated by facts, or by authorities?
If reality is dictated by facts, then the scammers producing these documents and speeches are correct, inasmuch as they produce evidence of the fraud of the system. The reality of the modern authority system is a system of fraud, usury, exploitation, and extortion.

In many cities and counties, the policing agencies enforcing the policies that would also seek to arrest the Sovereign movement contributors are themselves in a state of insolvency - they are bankrupt, and are not acting with legal, factual authority. In many cases, the ATF raids, the SWAT raids of non criminals for confiscation are acting without legal, factual authority. The concept of home owners associations and the departments that can attempt to seize property or evict or convict for growing produce on their own property, or for having chickens, or for producing, buying, or selling raw milk are acting without legal, factual authority.

Yet legal, factual authority as a legitimate entity is not De Facto power. It is De Jure.

The freemen are attempting to make a De Jure argument, and act on the presumption that De Facto will follow. They are incorrect. They are incorrect for the same reason mentally disabled people are killed by police for non crimes. They are making themselves Martyrs of a Legal Cause, one which they may believe to be just.

They have missed the point. Law is only enforced by the barrel of a gun and the edge of a sword. He who has the most soldiers - not guns and swords - makes the laws. The Freemen have made the mistake of believing the Law was on their side and what they needed for victory. The gun collectors are making the mistake of believing that owning hundreds and thousands of guns is what keeps them safe and what they need for victory.

Guns, like Laws, are both worthless without people willing to make use of them. A single man with a thousand guns is no more likely to survive a raid than a single lawyer with a thousand bills of sale declaring his independence.

reply to post by skynet2015


No.. you're missing the point, De Jure the United States of America is a Representative Republic, De Facto it is also a Representative Republic, as such there are rules of conduct, and rules of law that must be followed in order to keep it as such.

Ok, the thought that just because an agency is bankrupt, removes their De Jure authority has zero basis in fact. There are many cities and counties that continue to operate as the De Jure and De Facto authoritative body in a particular area although they are technically, if you were a corporation or person, bankrupt. There is no law that prevents them from continuing to operate. And they are not using firepower, or numbers to keep themselves in that position of authority. I know many Police Officers, and LEO from local on up to Federal, that would rather work with someone and fix the situation, rather than simply throw tickets and arrests and raid people's property, which only becomes necessary under some rather stringent sets of circumstances. (don't anyone start on Waco or Ruby Ridge and ATF goining into someone's home, all of those raids had met certain criteria to happen, and while I *personally* think it was overkill, apparently there is more that we do not know that has happened in each instance)

If that were indeed the case you would not have infrastructure or services that come with living in a Republic. That's the fallacy of the argument, that somehow they are thinking that it's not a Republic, but rather a corporation with you the person as collateral.

I would however agree with the fact that the Republic has a lot of corruption and fraud going on within branches of government that needs to be addressed.

I don't know, but watching ATS actively go after the sovereignty movement has been pretty disparaging.

Holy Crud! I do not have the time or energy to read all 88 pages
From what I have read before about this subject, I was very excited, then became suspicious and thought it a scam...now I feel as though I am missing so much information in all these pages....ohwell I guess

reply to post by Starwise


you aren't missing anything. lots of hooha posted by the toppt supporters with those extremely insightful youtube videos and blog posts and plenty of legal case citations refuting every single aspect of toppt's silly little game.

oh, and, of course, the well thought out, informative and ever so related snark from twitchy.

Wow, 88 pages and still running, I've missed a few but just to bring me up to date, I'm assuming no OPPT supporters have presented a single verifiable court judgement or the like to back up their ridiculous claims?

Originally posted by grainofsand
Wow, 88 pages and still running, I've missed a few but just to bring me up to date, I'm assuming no OPPT supporters have presented a single verifiable court judgement or the like to back up their ridiculous claims?

And they have evaded the question of whether or not they will be producing these courtesy notices to Law Enforcement...

Which brings up another interesting facet of this, the Courtesy Notice is also not an unknown bit of Sov'run Woo.

According to the Rational Wiki from their PseudoLaw section:

Fee schedule

The notice of understanding is typically followed by a "fee schedule" or "penalty schedules," listing a series of acts and associated penalties the freeman will attempt to levy against the government for perceived transgressions. If the state arrests or incarcerates a freeman against their will, they will then attempt to charge the state a fee for this action. This does not work out in practice and has attracted penalties in return.

So all of these people that are thinking this is an awesome way to let the powers of whomever know whatever and get silver dollars out of it, are in for a nasty surprise.

reply to post by vkey08


This has worked in court, i have seen it first hand, one MUST know how to carry themselves properly in the court trial. I went with a family member (just in case it did not work) so i could bail him out, but to both of our surprise it worked! Turns out i was not needed to post bail thankfully!

So yes i have SEEN THIS WORK FIRST HAND, and it was not by someone telling me or hearing/reading a story.

Lets think about it, Trial = test

Trial
noun 1. Law. a. the examination before a judicial tribunal of the facts put in issue in a cause, often including issues of law as well as those of fact. b. the determination of a person's guilt or innocence by due process of law. 2. the act of trying, testing, or putting to the proof. 3. test; proof. 4. an attempt or effort to do something. 5. a tentative or experimental action in order to ascertain results; experiment.

The trial is to test ones knowledge, and if you truely understand who we are and what we are capable of then you will be a free man.

But i do need to say this, this subject is not something that will be understood and comprehended overnight, this stuff takes many many hours of study! Personally me and my family members have studied this stuff for years, it will not be understood in a short amount of time.

Also check out those links and listen to Gordon Hall they have won many cases using this method!

Remember in court many people want to argue, when one argues it puts him/her in DISHONOR, but by conditionally accepting and adding one's own terms to their favor then you would remain in HONOR and that is the proper way to do this.

If you ever learn 1 single thing from ATS remember this, LAW = CONTRACT and there are a few good books that Gordon Hall recommends that explains this way better than i could, but hey how many people still read books?

Folks prepare to have your minds blown! Let me ask you sir, do you know why so many peoples are renouncing their U.S. Citizens status? I do, because citizens are "subject to the laws thereof" like i previously said, let me show you a AWESOME EXAMPLE of this below.

The following data I pulled from reports posted in the Federal Register by the IRS. All of this information is public domain and openly available. The IRS is required to post the names of people by quarter of those who have renounced their US Citizenship and become expatriates no longer subject to US laws.

Read the rest here..
americankabuki.blogspot.com...

Folks here is just a small nugget of the truth that WILL set you free! Those people are renouncing the citizenships for a reason!! But i will let you all read and do some research.

Again those who want to learn the REAL TRUTH on this subject go to www.talkshoe.com and search for Gordon Hall "Sailing the seas of Commerce" contracts in motion. I will provide link below that takes you to the page, each page has numerous recordings that can be downloaded and listen to FOR FREE.

Real knowledge should be shared and NOT SOLD and those "patriot for profit" peoples i would be very very weary of their information, no one should charge for this information as it is NOT theirs to sell.

Which are you operating as a debtor or creditor? You want the democracy or the republic?

The links to real freedom
www.talkshoe.com...

I highly recommend this folks, bookmark this info and listen to it as much as you can.


Let me also give you a review on Gordon's information straight from the Talkshoe.com website for his page, this comment is spot on

what's not to love? - Reviewer: KennyWally 12/28/12 02:29 PM EST Full Comment: gordon tells it like it is...so if you can't handle the truth, you best get out of the kitchen. go and download some creditors in commerce stuff and get your feet wet. most of us are not gonna figure it all out in a short amount of time. because there are multiple layers that cross over each other [ see "invisible contracts" ]. now take your ego and fire it! because you need to go to peace with your brother/opposition in order to get remedy...besides learning about trusts and contracts and the public side and pvt side of law, and the ucc and the irs codes and title codes and supreme court decisions....it gets a wee bit involved, and you need to know who you are as well! Gordon is quite dedicated to helping people.