The Vanity of Enlightenment

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Enlightenment is not an experience - it the realization of the one.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid, but keep in mind that I am speaking from the Buddhist perspective. Speaking from other perspectives, people say all kinds of things about Enlightenment. In the Buddhist tradition it is something very particular, just as in the Christian tradition Jesus was somebody very particular.

If Buddhists went around saying that the Pope, for example, or Rex Humbard was a Jesus, Christians would think that Buddhists only had a loose idea of what Christianity was and ought to inform themselves more thoroughly.

The realization of what is real is what they are all pointing to.
The truth shall set you free.
Until the truth is realized there will be suffering. Buddha was looking for the end of suffering.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

You can have something that is believed without question. When the illusion drops away, the belief is gone. Only truth remains.

Are you speaking from first hand experience?

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

You can have something that is believed without question. When the illusion drops away, the belief is gone. Only truth remains.

Are you speaking from first hand experience?

Yes.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Yes.

Details explain? dont be shy your agmonst conspiracy friends.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Yes.

Details explain? dont be shy your agmonst conspiracy friends.

I always speak from first hand experience.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


starting explaining your experience then, details. Give us some of your real life situations which resulted in your beliefs being stripped away. Dont be shy little candle.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

starting explaining your experience then, details. Give us some of your real life situations which resulted in your beliefs being stripped away. Dont be shy little candle.

I will not waste pearls on swine.

Mathew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

reply to post by Itisnowagain

I will not waste pearls on swine.

Dont be hateful i bear you no malice my friend.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I will not waste pearls on swine.

Dont be hateful i bear you no malice my friend.

It has nothing to do with hate.

Mathew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

reply to post by Itisnowagain


So you are labelling me swine. Thanks itsnowagain.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

So you are labelling me swine. Thanks itsnowagain.

Try to understand this verse.

Mathew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Try to understand this verse.

Mathew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

No need to rub it in, if you think im swine then fine hope that makes you feel emlightened.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The realization of what is real is what they are all pointing to.

This statement is way too vague. The Coca Cola Company used to have a slogan, "Coke is the real thing."

The great religions of the world do not point in the same direction. Pretending that they do is useful as a social expedient only, and I am not underestimating the importance of social expedients. If we limit investigations of anything at points marked by social expediency, we may obtain consensus, but we won't find truth.

The truth shall set you free.

Not if social expediency blocks the way.

Until the truth is realized there will be suffering. Buddha was looking for the end of suffering.

Suffering will persist no matter what. Buddha was looking for a way to escape the effects of birth, old age, sickness and death. He wanted to find a way out of the cycle of rebirth.

A lot of religious discussion takes place in the realm of platitudes. Platitudes in that context are a good way for people to avoid disagreement. Avoiding disagreement is a good thing in most social situations, but representing thoughts by means of platitudes is not effective if one is after accuracy.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Try to understand this verse.

Mathew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

No need to rub it in, if you think im swine then fine hope that makes you feel emlightened.

I have had many interactions with you and all you want is to tear me to pieces.
It is your game. If you do not see it then I am sorry - I do.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

I have had many interactions with you and all you want is to tear me to pieces.
It is your game. If you do not see it then I am sorry - I do.

There is no past, if you believe that then your still a prisoner of beliefs. The day you drop your beliefs you will see the truth im your friend.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I have had many interactions with you and all you want is to tear me to pieces.
It is your game. If you do not see it then I am sorry - I do.

There is no past, if you believe that then your still a prisoner of beliefs. The day you drop your beliefs you will see the truth im your friend.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The realization of what is real is what they are all pointing to.

This statement is way too vague. The Coca Cola Company used to have a slogan, "Coke is the real thing."

The 'real' is not a thing.

There is only one truth and all religions (at their core) point to it.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I have had many interactions with you and all you want is to tear me to pieces.
It is your game. If you do not see it then I am sorry - I do.

There is no past, if you believe that then your still a prisoner of beliefs. The day you drop your beliefs you will see the truth im your friend.

So have you stopped believeing in past yet?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
There is only one truth and all religions (at their core) point to it.

This is a platitude. It is not accurate. It's like agreeing that Betty's new hairdo is wonderful at a party. We do it to get along, not because it is accurate.

Do "cargo cults" at their core point to the "one truth"? They might, but it's not really meaningful to leave it at that. It doesn't really communicate anything.

It's like saying "Betty's new hairdo is wonderful because at least it indicates that Betty has hair." Yes, that's true, but it is not really a comment about the hairdo.

My posts in this discussion are about the Buddhist notion of Enlightenment. It's a particular thing. It's not found in other religions. Some people in other religions like to paper that fact over with a lot of statements to the effect of "We're all really the same (at our core)." Well, yes, we are all the same, but our religions are not, not even at the "core."

People are the same, the world is the same but not all religions get to the core, of that. They get so far and then start to generalize and wheel out the platitudes.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
There is only one truth and all religions (at their core) point to it.

This is a platitude. It is not accurate. It's like agreeing that Betty's new hairdo is wonderful at a party. We do it to get along, not because it is accurate.

Do "cargo cults" at their core point to the "one truth"? They might, but it's not really meaningful to leave it at that. It doesn't really communicate anything.

It's like saying "Betty's new hairdo is wonderful because at least it indicates that Betty has hair." Yes, that's true, but it is not really a comment about the hairdo.

My posts in this discussion are about the Buddhist notion of Enlightenment. It's a particular thing. It's not found in other religions. Some people in other religions like to paper that fact over with a lot of statements to the effect of "We're all really the same (at our core)." Well, yes, we are all the same, but our religions are not, not even at the core."

People are the same, the world is the same but not all religions get to the core, of that. They get so far and then start to generalize and wheel out the platitudes.

It is a 'platitude' to you because as yet you have not uncovered the truth.
When the truth is realized it all makes sense. All religions are pointing to the same moon but most just see the finger or just believe what they have in mind.