The Vanity of Enlightenment

reply to post by Itisnowagain

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

No - you can disagree and are.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

In Buddhism enlightenment is a very particular experience. It doesn't happen often in strict statistical terms.

Maybe you could tell me what you believe is the 'very particular experience' that the Buddhist view as enlightenment.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Maybe you could tell me what you believe is the 'very particular experience' that the Buddhist view as enlightenment.

Your post wasn't directed at me, but I just thought I'd throw in that just because you aren't familiar with it, doesn't make it unreal. You aren't the sole source of understanding in this world, nor are you the only one capable of it. If you don't like it, maybe it's because you're stuck on one channel. Just a disclaimer.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

starting explaining your experience then, details. Give us some of your real life situations which resulted in your beliefs being stripped away. Dont be shy little candle.

I will not waste pearls on swine.

Mathew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

edit on 18-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

That quote may be a tad harsh for some on this thread.

I think this one is more befitting the movement of this thread at this particular stage:

You also need to be true to yourself. It is fine to listen to other people's advice, but ultimately, you are the only one who walks in your shoes. Make sure they fit and are comfortable. Listen to your heart, and try not to let the ego take control. Do what makes your heart sing. By doing both, your light will shine. When it shines, it positively affects everyone around you........including yourself.

reply to post by InTheLight


Thank you for posting that. "Pearls before swine" is an arrogant and degrading sentiment that only the most blinded of men would think to speak. The better phrase, in my opinion, would express understanding of ignorance and compassion for fear and a willingness to share a perspective when the ignorant party feels it is ready to listen.

That, in my view, is the most beneficial way to say "What I have to say is probably not what you should hear right now".

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Indeed, we certainly are relying too much on quotes from different sources, but this is a subject from which explaning one's own personal spiritual journeys is extremely difficult to get across or debate properly.

I, for one, can't find the words to fully describe all that I believe I know to be my truth. At this point, I am musing on the fact that no matter how many times the cosmos dies and is reborn, there will never be another instance where what and who I am will be recreated again, so I must live for now and free myself of the chains of the ego-self and walk my own path with bravery, humility, an open heart, and an open mind.

Hello OP and Everyone,
This thread started out great...but it has turned into ruffled feathers resulting in personal arguments....like so many other great threads.
So I decided to finally add my own opinion and beliefs.
I believe that 'enlightened' is a concept. Just like 'life after death', 'Heaven and Hell', etc. are all concepts. We haven't experienced them...we have no real proof.

But all of us here? We are....awakened. We are learning many things. But we're not enlightened.
We have an ego, and that ego is what brings us to ATS.
We want to learn more...and maybe help others learn.
We aren't doing that by meditating in a field surrounded by daisies (although I do this, lol). We do it by fully engaging all that we are as human beings...and some of that is ego-driven.

We are all vain in some way. We have opinions and beliefs.
We are more aware of previous "wrong" opinions and beliefs.
We are awake....to more realities or even possible realities.
But we are not enlightened.

jacygirl
P.S. S&F Les Mis....this has been quite a read!

reply to post by jacygirl


Thank you for your post!

What do you see as the ego? It means something different to everyone, and I sure know that I have defined it in a way so that I "dont have one." I have also defined it in a way so that I "always have one." Like enlightenment and so many other things, we cant read each others minds on what we see.

edit: For me, everything humans do is ego-driven. We are not capable of getting away from our sense of self until the body passes into dust. In our egos, we can find and perpetuate separation, or find beauty in the diversity. I define the ego as anything resultant of the physical systems that comprise the human body. Including everything from thoughts, emotions, and memories to actions, awareness, and even electrical fields generated by the body.


AfterInfinity, when I posted that reply to you, I have to be honest and say I expected a little more. Its what you wanted, and yet when given, you still focused on the ones you felt were doing it wrong, so to speak. Why is that?

reply to post by Serdgiam


Hey...thank you!
Hmmm....what is the ego?
To me....it IS the individual. It's what makes us individual.
There are many times when something triggers an emotion (or emotional response) in me...and those triggers are unique and personal to me. (Although many other people may share some of the same....they won't share ALL the same triggers).
I respond emotionally (initially)....sometimes it includes physical sensations (rapid heart, clammy hands, crying, etc.). But I HAVE learned how to keep my emotional responses "in check"....and to quickly THINK first...before I say or react to triggers.
I don't consider that to be an enlightened state lol....but I don't believe that it's something everyone does.
I still remember when my emotions ruled me and I made knee-jerk decisions based on how I felt. Unfortunately, my ability to think first/react later came about from years of abuse/trauma. I believe that a lot of people come to a new 'awareness' after trauma....
I don't think we can function without our ego.....I believe it is part of being human.
jacygirl

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Thank you for posting that. "Pearls before swine" is an arrogant and degrading sentiment that only the most blinded of men would think to speak.

Or they understand that part of becoming a liberated and "light" person is learning to not let other's word choices and your perceptions of them control your emotions and reactions... and are actually offering a very valuable opportunity for those willing to take it.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Thank you for posting that. "Pearls before swine" is an arrogant and degrading sentiment that only the most blinded of men would think to speak.

Or they understand that part of becoming a liberated and "light" person is learning to not let other's word choices and your perceptions of them control your emotions and reactions... and are actually offering a very valuable opportunity for those willing to take it.

C'est la vie!

I suppose the same can apply to everyone and everything.

Letting one small part of us over ride the rest can lead to some imbalances. As Jacy said, emotions are the most common and hardest aspect for many to come to terms with. I dont see it so much as nullifying them, just accepting them as one small part of the whole

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

Or they understand that part of becoming a liberated and "light" person is learning to not let other's word choices and your perceptions of them control your emotions and reactions... and are actually offering a very valuable opportunity for those willing to take it.

A convenient excuse. If you actually read the posts, you will see this is not the case.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

 

Or they understand that part of becoming a liberated and "light" person is learning to not let other's word choices and your perceptions of them control your emotions and reactions... and are actually offering a very valuable opportunity for those willing to take it.

A convenient excuse. If you actually read the posts, you will see this is not the case.

Every once in a while the thought pops into my head that the screen name "Itisnowagain" is actually an automated response system that incorporates relevant new terms into its vocabulary (which gives an appearance of dynamics). Though, it will never, ever stray or grow beyond the boundaries of the programming foundation.

And yet, it would seem the same applies to all of us in some respect.

Originally posted by Serdgiam
Letting one small part of us over ride the rest can lead to some imbalances. As Jacy said, emotions are the most common and hardest aspect for many to come to terms with. I dont see it so much as nullifying them, just accepting them as one small part of the whole

Agreed... denying their existence also winds up with the same "stumble" in lightening up. Because it's still a form of letting them have control. No intention of nullifying them meant... merely recognizing their actual power vs the power we grant them ourselves.

Edit: Emphasis is on other's word choices and our perceptions of them... not "controlling our emotions". I've yet to see any success in "controlling" emotions that didn't just manifest in some other unexpected way elsewhere.

However a person who can be called a "jerk" and smile at it... is liable to have a "lighter" day than someone who being called a "jerk" basically sends them down a spiral of negativity and self defense.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
A convenient excuse. If you actually read the posts, you will see this is not the case.

I did read.

Your performance is impeccable. /hug

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

 

Or they understand that part of becoming a liberated and "light" person is learning to not let other's word choices and your perceptions of them control your emotions and reactions... and are actually offering a very valuable opportunity for those willing to take it.

A convenient excuse. If you actually read the posts, you will see this is not the case.

Every once in a while the thought pops into my head that the screen name "Itisnowagain" is actually an automated response system that incorporates relevant new terms into its vocabulary (which gives an appearance of dynamics). Though, it will never, ever stray or grow beyond the boundaries of the programming foundation.

And yet, it would seem the same applies to all of us in some respect.

edit on 18-2-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)

I get that, sort of like being caught up in a loop.

Originally posted by Serdgiam
Every once in a while the thought pops into my head that the screen name "Itisnowagain" is actually an automated response system that incorporates relevant new terms into its vocabulary (which gives an appearance of dynamics). Though, it will never, ever stray or grow beyond the boundaries of the programming foundation.

And yet, it would seem the same applies to all of us in some respect.

Some degree of tennis skill can indeed be learned and improved upon with only a brick wall as the opposing force.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

Some degree of tennis skill can indeed be learned and improved upon with only a brick wall as the opposing force.

Have you been spying on me practicing my rhetorical skills?

Much of my philosophy has been developed using just such a method.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


Back when I was very serious about anything with two wheels, I found something very interesting.

Practicing and experience led to discovery and learning. But, my actions ended up being influenced the most, and my skills improved the most, by doing track stands.

So, I started to solely do that. However, I found that without application through action, I literally went no where.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion

Originally posted by Serdgiam
Every once in a while the thought pops into my head that the screen name "Itisnowagain" is actually an automated response system that incorporates relevant new terms into its vocabulary (which gives an appearance of dynamics). Though, it will never, ever stray or grow beyond the boundaries of the programming foundation.

And yet, it would seem the same applies to all of us in some respect.

Some degree of tennis skill can indeed be learned and improved upon with only a brick wall as the opposing force.

A very little skill would result as the brick wall cannot do slam dunk shots.