Get rid of Minimum Wage, Save the World!

reply to post by burdman30ott6




It isn't the guy at the burger joint that's making minimum wage but the guy who is a part of Local 123 Bag Changers and Broom Pushers of North America that is killing the economy. And the if you work here, you are part of the union crap. The guy changing garbage bags for 25/30$ an hour or the guy turning the last bolt on a car for 45/50 bucks, that's were the ire should be.

They had their place at one time, they even have a place in some sectors today but the bloated unions are a bigger drain on the economy then Bob down at the corner store making minimum wage is.

I pay my employees well above minimum wage; even the unskilled ones. Because I want my people to be able to enjoy a standard of living that min. wage simply can't afford them. In turn I get loyal and honest employees.

However I would never under any circumstances hire anyone that favors greedy corporations over the American working man. There still is such a thing as honor and character among business people and entrepreneurs.

I have a better solution than the OP's How about get rid of the monetary system once and for all and throw the banking cartel to the wolves?



After all that is what makes us into this debt slave class.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by camaro68ss
Free market principals would bring those jobs back, but instead the union thugs drive up the wages, lowering productivity and force owners to ship jobs over seas to more competitive markets.

Minimum wage isn't the problem, unions are. Keep the minimum wage, hell, increase it to a living wage if you must. That said, make the entire United States a Right to Work state. Also permit an increase in wages based on whether or not an employee is unionized. It is absolutely unacceptable that we are seeing professions like nurses, pilots, and even professional, multimillion dollar athletes striking for increases in pay. That's bullcrap. They should have the right to unionize, but that's where it ends... they should not have the right to dictate that everyone they work with has to join the union, nor should there be any repercussions to workers who refuse to join the union or who decide to continue their gainfull work while the unionized workers are striking. Employers and the workers who do not wish to see part of their pay go into union boss pockets and politician coffers should have a legal mechanism by which not belonging to the union can be incentivised.

face it, Asia doesn't have labor unions. The writing was on the wall when the American unions managed to protect even the laziest worker from being fired for cause while also paying him $30 an hour to use the entirety of his GED attaching the plastic cup holder inside each new Chevy. Those companies took their production lines elsewhere because they had reached their limit of hearing demands from unions and still watching the unions bitch and strike even after their demands were reached.

I'm going to have to chime in here.
Without a Union's right to strike, their collective bargaining becomes void. When collective bargaining becomes void, you as a worker have lost your voice. And a loss in pay and securities result.
I have worked union, and non union, as well as non union working with union.
Every time it is the non union who have had to make concessions, with the union never having to.

Asia doesn't have unions. Would you work in the conditions the average Asian worker does daily, for the pay they make?

reply to post by camaro68ss

Let’s take a look at Henry Ford, No minimum wage at the time. He opened up his Ford car plant and paid all his workers $5 a day when his competitors where paying their workers $2.50 a day.

Yep, back in the day decency and respect wasnt a myth!

Look at todays corporations, can you imagine any of them paying any employee a cent more than they are forced too?

You need minimum wage laws, other wise we'd get paid .50c an hr while they make billions of profits.

reply to post by camaro68ss


A Neocons' wet dream.
Not a good idea.

Hey, everyone wants some slaves, why don't you do some of that murderous crap?

Originally posted by randomtangentsrme
Asia doesn't have unions. Would you work in the conditions the average Asian worker does daily, for the pay they make?

No, which is why I said keep the minimum wage, even increasing it to a living wage. My point wasn't about abusing or manipulating employees... the USA has laws on the books, added after the union movement gained ground in this country, that protects workers from those conditions and abusively low pay. When those laws were passed, the unions became little more than worker ponzi schemes quickly infiltrated by politicians and organized crime and used as a way to manipulate the workers.

ETA: I also believe it is completely a conflict of interest for government employees to legally be allowed to unionize. They work for "us" many of them doing exactly the same jobs we, ourselves do, only getting directly paid by the tax payers for the work. The politicians (their immediate "bosses") are quick to grant them mandatory wage increases, seniority job protection despite performance issues, and by far the most generous pensions to be found anywhere. They grant them this in exchange for vows of support via both worker votes and union contributions (Remember, that SCOTUS decision which called corporations "people" made the exact same designation for unions.). If this occurred in the private sector it would be prosecuted as an illegal conflict of interest.

Inequality.

This is the reason why selfish people are willing to give those they assume are lower than them less power/wages than another.

If ALL were fair, in an ideal world, imaginary land called....Utopia,

the FARMER that works his azz off day and night, the waitress that works for mere pennies to feed your sorry azzes would get the same (un-unionized) pay, straight-up. Those that DON'T contribute in actual ENERGY (GOOD and mindful energy or physicial energy) can jump off of the planet. The actual disabled/ill are considered GOOD and taken care of, by such GOOD mindful energy (nurses etc). Doctors are giving, less hours of work (in consideration of their exceptional skills) and can be mindful in a 'Patch Adams' sense.

This is why the NWO is like Utopia, and such a promise-land to those who actually strive and thrive to succeed.
It removes the whiners and the ones who are feeling all 'entitled' to whatever they want. This is why they'd prefer this crap stuff would be done by slaves. YOU, ME, US, SLAVE FODDER. Technology the same, SLAVE FODDER, but NOTHING that would involve THEM actually SEEING ......YOU.

Lifespan, gone. Genetics, gone, Health care (except for well, you know), gone. Sense of time, knowledge, language as you know it....gone, family...GONE.

I am by FAR a fan of royalty nor elitism (because that is how they are KNOWN to behave as), but there is nothing that p'ss off the royals or elite than people with a brain who cooperate and actually are productive and have a hive-self community. This is their goal (without US), why sit around and wait for them to kill US off so that they can teach their offspring these basic principles?

You all actually think that the Queen is fed (emotionally or physically) without us drones? lolol
Without some of us (in the end it will be us against some of you) they have no toys, no home, no cushy slippers.

Without your President you would have a Queen or a Russian or Arabian Prince (all the same, name a language on the Guidestones to know which team you will be divided into), ..oh whomever can afford to bring over the most troops. Did ya ever think to look at those troops and shake their hand to say 'hi'? NO. Even if you did, they'd toss you all into a pit to rot and tell the next generation of 'soldiers' to attack the 'common enemy'. The war machine is a money machine, a human money pit or a money human pit., whichever is the way you prefer to hear it.

So you see your enemy (who did horrible things that you saw on the news).....If YOU didn't HATE them, and THEY didn't HATE YOU...well, what could the few simpleton inbreds do? Cry. garshdammit, they'd CRY n DIE.
The Leaders would cry, call eachother like lost puppies who got their heart broken at the prom and CRY.

Well, I'm not cryin' and I'm not dyin', and I'll be damn'd if I die cryin'.

Money isn't jack to me. I have my son, He is my world, he IS good. Yeah I said it..HE IS GOOD. Can we all give a Hallelujah to the children we raise to be GOOD??? NOT to children who are raised to be elitist breeders of mahem, but JUST PLAIN GOOD!!!

Do you know what PEACE is?
Peace is when not a g'dam sound left here.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by randomtangentsrme
Asia doesn't have unions. Would you work in the conditions the average Asian worker does daily, for the pay they make?

No, which is why I said keep the minimum wage, even increasing it to a living wage. My point wasn't about abusing or manipulating employees... the USA has laws on the books, added after the union movement gained ground in this country, that protects workers from those conditions and abusively low pay. When those laws were passed, the unions became little more than worker ponzi schemes quickly infiltrated by politicians and organized crime and used as a way to manipulate the workers.

The USA has laws on the books for many things, that does not mean they are being enforced. Again, working as I have, I have seen reason for a lot of union rules. In the unions I have dealt with I haven't seen the ponzi scheme you think obvious.
When I was working union, I paid 3% per paycheck for my union to find me work, and make sure I had safe working conditions. Seeing as how I get paid far less non union without the safe guards, and have been let go for insisting on OSHA safety guidelines, I cannot agree.
Could you provide links, or a Google search term for me, so I can find where you are getting your data from?

To your edit- I have worked at a couple colleges- at that degree of separation, I think unions are fine. When it comes to the actual workings of government, I think the idea of union is gaming the system.

reply to post by camaro68ss


I think you are looking the wrong way around. We need to introduce a maximum wage instead of revoking the minimum wage. We should get the trillions back the bankers have put in offshore banks accounts too.

reply to post by camaro68ss

you can make a case that once the Minimum wage was founded, jobs started shipping over seas

What you should have stated is that the reason why jobs started shipping over seas is because the WTO does not link social justice to exports tariffs. This is why the US broke Europe's back when it promoted the China entry on the WTO (the US had already moved some jobs out to Latin America and India) but when living standards are not obligatory linked to globalization one gets what we are witnessing...

reply to post by iwilliam


While I don't own a business, I am an executive in a business (CFO). One thing I can assure you is that minimum wage only has 1 consideration in my place: tipped employees. If a tipped employee doesn't earn enough tips to close the gap between their hourly wage (well above the tipped employee minimum wage, btw) and the $7.25/hr, then I have to do a "minimum wage makeup" pay. If this happens, there is 99% of the time a performance issue with an employee (who can't make their tips in a place with an average ticket of 60 bucks?).

Not a single employee I have is paid anywhere close to minimum wage. If that is the approach we took, imagine the flunky's we would get. Imagine how poor our service would be.

Through our pay scale I have removed the notion of the minimum wage safety net, and driven true value in labor. People enjoy making more doing what they do, and protect their job fiercely. They take pride working in our establishment. In my town, when you say you work at my place, you say it with pride and it impresses other people.

I don't buy that minmum wage protects employees. That argument only works when the economy is nonexistant. And when that happens, it is the fault of those who steer the economy on the macro scale. Minimum wage is less a safety net for workers and more for politicians. I mean, who the hell takes solace in their wages never being allowed to fall below $7.25? That is a biweekly paycheck of what, $580 before taxes (assuming your full 40 hr work weeks).

reply to post by camaro68ss

All the studies (many countries before and after minimum wage implememntation) show that a minimum wage improves the economy. These are studies based on facts not personal opinions or beliefs. Some people can't handle the fact that their political viewpoint conflicts with facts.

Just when I thought we needed a maximum wage of un-invested profits made by corporation, some guy brings up the idea that we should take even more from the poor to fix our situation.

I feel that you never worked for minimum wage, because if you did you wouldn't bull# us with the idea that people don't work hard because they are assured of getting a minimum wage when it's totally the contrary.

The less money you make, the more you work and the more #ty is your work and these are cold hard facts that you probably evaded all your life and missed that lesson in sympathy.

reply to post by theMediator


I have worked for minimum wage before. As a CNA. Nothing more thankless than tending to the elderly's bowels.

I have also worked minimum wage as a roofer. Never found a job that is harder than a roofer in the hot West Texas sun.

So spare me.. I have done the work. I have acheived what I have achieved in life because of a change in thought process. My old saying used to be, "Minimum wage equals minimum effort." Seems I was right, too. I pay well above minimum wage, and have people tripping over themselves to overachieve as a result.

Originally posted by yorkshirelad
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

All the studies (many countries before and after minimum wage implememntation) show that a minimum wage improves the economy. These are studies based on facts not personal opinions or beliefs. Some people can't handle the fact that their political viewpoint conflicts with facts.

"many studies" doesn't clarify things at all.

Has a study on minimum wage been done in the last 15 years? Because the landscape of world economy (and power structure) sure has. Are those studies relevant in todays environment?

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Your assuming that our government actually WANTS to solve our economic problems??? Hard to believe that, when they are the ones whom are responsible for shipping all of our manufacturing jobs overseas in the first place..........

Free market principals would bring those jobs back, but instead the union thugs drive up the wages, lowering productivity and force owners to ship jobs over seas to more competitive markets.

you can make a case that once the Minimum wage was founded, jobs started shipping over seas

Where did you get this crap? The free market is what helped to kill economy. Not to mention the companies that were already making record profits moved jobs overseas not because of unions but to increase their profit margin. The unions are responsible is the same lies the GOP has been crying for years.

Originally posted by GAOTU789
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

It isn't the guy at the burger joint that's making minimum wage but the guy who is a part of Local 123 Bag Changers and Broom Pushers of North America that is killing the economy. And the if you work here, you are part of the union crap. The guy changing garbage bags for 25/30$ an hour or the guy turning the last bolt on a car for 45/50 bucks, that's were the ire should be.

They had their place at one time, they even have a place in some sectors today but the bloated unions are a bigger drain on the economy then Bob down at the corner store making minimum wage is.

edit on 7-2-2013 by GAOTU789 because: (no reason given)

How dare people that want to make a decent living. The problem isn't the unions but the greedy SOB's that own the companies that is the problem. The owner's want maximum profit and productivity but only wants to pay slave wages. This is the same rhetoric we heard when that idiot Reagan started the war on unions and the middle class. Don't forget without unions the middle class in America will be gone.

If people are getting paid the same rate as waiters, base pay anyway, youd actually make more being unemployed and taking government benefits. Removing minimum wage is a flawed idea from start to finish, in my opinion. Why bust your arse for 5 bucks an hour and not be able to afford bousing or a vehicle, when u can mooch off the state and get free housing and free cars? Also, mire people on state aid, means more taxes coming out of that 5 bucjs an hour. Horrible idea.

reply to post by camaro68ss


I have been preaching this for years. The reason the minimum wage exists is to make poor people, mostly inner city minorities, think that the government has their back, because if not for the compassion of the government, the greedy, rich, white, racist business owners would pay people 50 cents an hour. All minimum wage does is perpetuate poverty. The Progressives know that by having a minimum wage, they will get poor people dependent on government welfare programs, because the minimum wage is not enough for anyone to live on. This is how big government progressives racial divide the country, well, one of many ways. This is also how they buy votes now, as well as in the future, because uneducated poor people on minimum wage usually have children who end up in the same circumstances, and they have children, etc..etc.. If the government really cared about the poor, especially the poor minority, why isn't minimum wage $15.00 an hour? Better yet, why isn't minimum wage based on the revenue of a company, for example... McDonald's. McD's makes tens of billions a year, so they could easily afford to pay their employees more, but they don't. Wal-Mart... largest retailer in the world... multi billion dollars a year, but they pay their employees squat. The answer is to let the free market decide what the wages are.