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Get rid of Minimum Wage, Save the World!

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posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:50 PM
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I’m going to try and convince you why getting rid of the minimum wage would be good for this country and any country for the matter.

Let’s take a look at Henry Ford, No minimum wage at the time. He opened up his Ford car plant and paid all his workers $5 a day when his competitors where paying their workers $2.50 a day. Solely on free market principles, more people flocked to work for Ford. Once securing a job, they worked extra hard to keep that job, increasing productivity of the plant and driving down cost to produce a car. Because of free market principles, his company boomed and the workers prospered. Ford Motors was known as the peoples company.

Creating a “minimum wage” discourages productivity and in all actuality increase the cost of goods produced. Once on minimum wage, why work hard? You’re on a fixed pay and can’t go lower. Why even force a company to pay a base wage that is not even livable in the first place? Artificially increase minimum wage only increase prices of goods and not productivity. Only competition can increase wages, productivity and lower price of goods!

If minimum wage was not around, free markets would establish a market value wage. Those jobs that pay well get higher productivity, based on people wanting to keep their high paying jobs intern lowering the cost of goods sold based on higher output. Those Companies that don’t pay well will have a hard time finding people to fill the jobs, based on people not wanting to work for lower wages, and as a result, lower productivity increases the cost of goods. A free market wage will eventually drop the prices of all goods making all good obtainable to all.

To understand this principle, look at doctors or any specialty skilled job. Doctors are not paid a minimum wage, Why? Because no doctor will work for minimum wage when they know the hospital down the street will pay them a “fair” market wage for their skill. Why should this be any different for any other skill?

Base of free market principals, with no minimum wages, people will only flock to the higher paying job naturally. To keep that job they will work harder, other companies will have a hard time finding employees because there wages paid are to low forcing that company to increase its salary to entice workers to work at their facilities or restaurants. As this plays out, competitive wage battles will start, Company “A” will increase pay over company “B” to entice harder works to join, company “B” follows suit to keep its staff. Productivity increases, standard of living increases and cost of goods produced falls. It’s a win win. As long as there is competition and free market principles in the market place, a minimum wageless society can flourish.


A good example of dropping the minimum wage would be In n’ Out burgers on the west coast. They pay their employees $12 an hour starting. It’s the highest paying fast food joint around. Because of it, the workers’ productivity is externally high. Everyone wants to keep their good paying job. Because of the high productivity, burgers are a lower price but of GREAT quality.



economics 101 people
edit on 6-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



+8 more 
posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:51 PM
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Bad idea



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Bad idea



as above.


+1 more 
posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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Ah, the view from the top must be great eh..



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


Your assuming that our government actually WANTS to solve our economic problems??? Hard to believe that, when they are the ones whom are responsible for shipping all of our manufacturing jobs overseas in the first place..........



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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I take it non of you even read what i had to say? you dont even have a counter argument, just one liners And believes that are feed to you by the MSM that are not even your own.


+11 more 
posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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◆ Backbreaker: The annual salary on Illinois’ minimum wage (assuming 40 hours per week and 4.2 weeks per month) is around $17,000.

◆ Heartbreaker: The national poverty threshold for a family of three with one child under 18 is $18,480, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

◆ $$$$ It has been argued that increasing the minimum wage leads to economic growth, and a $1 increase in minimum wage generates about $2,800 in household spending a year.


www.suntimes.com...

yes turning the entire workforce into slave labour will work????

putting millions more into poverty is great

you are sadly deluded

xploder



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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Yeah... They say communism sounds great on paper too. What do you think?



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by camaro68ss
 


Your assuming that our government actually WANTS to solve our economic problems??? Hard to believe that, when they are the ones whom are responsible for shipping all of our manufacturing jobs overseas in the first place..........


Free market principals would bring those jobs back, but instead the union thugs drive up the wages, lowering productivity and force owners to ship jobs over seas to more competitive markets.

you can make a case that once the Minimum wage was founded, jobs started shipping over seas


+4 more 
posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


minimum wage is a form of protection for enabling those in less fortunate positions to have some level of adequate standard of of living for hours worked at any organisation, which is an act of contribution to society including paying taxes.

if u lose this protection employers will be able to pay what they want for your time and ur skills. they can even collude, and they will and this will eventually affect higher paying jobs. they can decide that they are all not going to pay more than $2 a week if they wanted for each employee. regardless of skill or education level. it wont just affect the poor. and they wont care what the cost of rent is as inflation goes up.

if anything minimum wage should be raised, to match and counter the bollocks the government has been doing with the economy. their solutions havent worked for a long time. and their statistics do not reflect the true state of quality of life on the ground.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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Too many employers would take advantage of it. There is always somebody willing to work next to nothing, if that means a pack of ciggs and a 40 oz for the day....
Quality might suffer, but that doesn't always mean what it should to some people.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by XPLodER

◆ Backbreaker: The annual salary on Illinois’ minimum wage (assuming 40 hours per week and 4.2 weeks per month) is around $17,000.

◆ Heartbreaker: The national poverty threshold for a family of three with one child under 18 is $18,480, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

◆ $$$$ It has been argued that increasing the minimum wage leads to economic growth, and a $1 increase in minimum wage generates about $2,800 in household spending a year.


www.suntimes.com...

yes turning the entire workforce into slave labour will work????

putting millions more into poverty is great

you are sadly deluded

xploder


your $1 increase also increase the cost of good, making all new wages void of there purchasing power based on cost of goods going up.


+4 more 
posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss
I’m going to try and convince you why getting rid of the minimum wage would be good for this country and any country for the matter.

Let’s take a look at Henry Ford, No minimum wage at the time. He opened up his Ford car plant and paid all his workers $5 a day when his competitors where paying their workers $2.50 a day. Solely on free market principles, more people flocked to work for Ford. Once securing a job, they worked extra hard to keep that job, increasing productivity of the plant and driving down cost to produce a car. Because of free market principles, his company boomed and the workers prospered. Ford Motors was known as the peoples company.

Creating a “minimum wage” discourages productivity and in all actuality increase the cost of goods produced. Once on minimum wage, why work hard? You’re on a fixed pay and can’t go lower. Why even force a company to pay a base wage that is not even livable in the first place? Artificially increase minimum wage only increase prices of goods and not productivity. Only competition can increase wages, productivity and lower price of goods!

If minimum wage was not around, free markets would establish a market value wage. Those jobs that pay well get higher productivity, based on people wanting to keep their high paying jobs intern lowering the cost of goods sold based on higher output. Those Companies that don’t pay well will have a hard time finding people to fill the jobs, based on people not wanting to work for lower wages, and as a result, lower productivity increases the cost of goods. A free market wage will eventually drop the prices of all goods making all good obtainable to all.

To understand this principle, look at doctors or any specialty skilled job. Doctors are not paid a minimum wage, Why? Because no doctor will work for minimum wage when they know the hospital down the street will pay them a “fair” market wage for their skill. Why should this be any different for any other skill?

Base of free market principals, with no minimum wages, people will only flock to the higher paying job naturally. To keep that job they will work harder, other companies will have a hard time finding employees because there wages paid are to low forcing that company to increase its salary to entice workers to work at their facilities or restaurants. As this plays out, competitive wage battles will start, Company “A” will increase pay over company “B” to entice harder works to join, company “B” follows suit to keep its staff. Productivity increases, standard of living increases and cost of goods produced falls. It’s a win win. As long as there is competition and free market principles in the market place, a minimum wageless society can flourish.


A good example of dropping the minimum wage would be In n’ Out burgers on the west coast. They pay their employees $12 an hour starting. It’s the highest paying fast food joint around. Because of it, the workers’ productivity is externally high. Everyone wants to keep their good paying job. Because of the high productivity, burgers are a lower price but of GREAT quality.



economics 101 people
edit on 6-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)


Kind of a silly argument. There's no law preventing anyone from paying more than minimum wage.


+2 more 
posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by camaro68ss
 


Your assuming that our government actually WANTS to solve our economic problems??? Hard to believe that, when they are the ones whom are responsible for shipping all of our manufacturing jobs overseas in the first place..........


Free market principals would bring those jobs back, but instead the union thugs drive up the wages, lowering productivity and force owners to ship jobs over seas to more competitive markets.

you can make a case that once the Minimum wage was founded, jobs started shipping over seas
And why do you think they shipped the jobs abroad?

So they didn't have to UP the wages and pay more, so they ship them out because it's cheaper... free market principals.

You beat yourself with your own argument



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by 0mage
reply to post by camaro68ss
 


minimum wage is a form of protection for enabling those in less fortunate positions to have some level of adequate standard of of living for hours worked at any organisation, which is an act of contribution to society including paying taxes.

if u lose this protection employers will be able to pay what they want for your time and ur skills. they can even collude, and they will and this will eventually affect higher paying jobs. they can decide that they are all not going to pay more than $2 a week if they wanted for each employee. regardless of skill or education level. it wont just affect the poor. and they wont care what the cost of rent is as inflation goes up.

if anything minimum wage should be raised, to match and counter the bollocks the government has been doing with the economy. their solutions havent worked for a long time. and their statistics do not reflect the true state of quality of life on the ground.


doctors dont have a minumum wage, so what gives for the high prices of doctors? Competition! there is no mandate to pay doctors a certain wage. Far markets decide that!



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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I don't really know what to think to be honest. I could probably get behind it if US businesses were smaller and not so large (think Wal-Mart).

However, I do know enough about economics that minimum wag is a double edged sword. Raise the minimum wage (or corporate taxes for that matter)and prices increase by about the same amount on everything. This leaves the person making minimum wage with approximately the same spending power as they had before. However, for those a tier or two above minimum wage who don't get an increase in wages by the same amount as those receiving the minimum see their purchasing power diminish.

Also, I've seen it mentioned that increasing minimum wage also increases the incentive to automate production. Robots are one time investments that require only maintenance to keep going. At some point producers must make the decision whether to hire flesh and blood that require wages, employer contributions to SS, unemployment insurance, costs from social programs like Obamacare, and other costs. At some point, and I don't think it's that far off, it will probably be cheaper to automate all you can, pay skilled technicians what you must to maintain that automation, and not hire any unskilled (ie Minimum wage labor) beyond what is absolutely necessary.

The current economic policies of the US shows that they fear one thing more than anything else--Deflation. Mild deflation should be the natural result of improved efficiency, but the fiscal policy of the US to include minimum wag laws is hell bent on preventing any deflation at all.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by Mister_Bit

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by camaro68ss
 


Your assuming that our government actually WANTS to solve our economic problems??? Hard to believe that, when they are the ones whom are responsible for shipping all of our manufacturing jobs overseas in the first place..........


Free market principals would bring those jobs back, but instead the union thugs drive up the wages, lowering productivity and force owners to ship jobs over seas to more competitive markets.

you can make a case that once the Minimum wage was founded, jobs started shipping over seas
And why do you think they shipped the jobs abroad?

So they didn't have to UP the wages and pay more, so they ship them out because it's cheaper... free market principals.

You beat yourself with your own argument


you did not read the OP. Artificially increasing wages doesn’t increase productivity. Companies that are forced to increase wages with no increase in productivity resulting in a thinning bottom lines. Jobs get shipped.

With no bottom to wages, productivity incrase to keep ones job, wages increase for harder works. jobs stay



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by jefwane
I don't really know what to think to be honest. I could probably get behind it if US businesses were smaller and not so large (think Wal-Mart).

However, I do know enough about economics that minimum wag is a double edged sword. Raise the minimum wage (or corporate taxes for that matter)and prices increase by about the same amount on everything. This leaves the person making minimum wage with approximately the same spending power as they had before. However, for those a tier or two above minimum wage who don't get an increase in wages by the same amount as those receiving the minimum see their purchasing power diminish.

Also, I've seen it mentioned that increasing minimum wage also increases the incentive to automate production. Robots are one time investments that require only maintenance to keep going. At some point producers must make the decision whether to hire flesh and blood that require wages, employer contributions to SS, unemployment insurance, costs from social programs like Obamacare, and other costs. At some point, and I don't think it's that far off, it will probably be cheaper to automate all you can, pay skilled technicians what you must to maintain that automation, and not hire any unskilled (ie Minimum wage labor) beyond what is absolutely necessary.

The current economic policies of the US shows that they fear one thing more than anything else--Deflation. Mild deflation should be the natural result of improved efficiency, but the fiscal policy of the US to include minimum wag laws is hell bent on preventing any deflation at all.


you have a great point, monopolies are an exception to free markets, once established they hold all the cards on wages. Monopolies should not take hold in this country and its one of the major problems we face today.

Deflation is good for the working class, bad for the bankers, thats why the bankers dont alway it.

again, my arguments are of corruption free worlds. With corruption, free markets dont work



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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To build on what another guy basically said. There's no law preventing them from paying more than minimum wage. Yet, the majority of jobs refuse to do so. if what you and many others like to propose is so great then why not try it? We don't need the government to hold our hands to do every little thing do we? Why can't these great businesses lead by example?

I swear it's like most people here in the U.S. have never had a history class. 100 year ago the average American citizens life was much more complicated and much less pleasant. They worked harder than us kids these days, sure. But what did "most" of them have to show for it? Not very much!

Back then in those better times if you weren't born into a family of wealth your life was simply not worth living because you had even less of an illusion of hope than we do today.

Businesses are already screwing the common man over. You suggest that giving them more power would be better for us all? How so? If your only reasoning is because of a theory that you believe sounds good on paper than how are you any better than those who are pro communist?

Giving the wealthy even more power is never the answer! They are not our gods and they do not know or care whats best for us.


+4 more 
posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


Minimum wage was instituted because WELL PRODUCING COMPANIES started treating their employees like crap, cutting costs and pay and no benefits. Unions came along and saved millions of people from being on Welfare while companies grew richer while having less skilled workers and #tier products.

Companies today that have the HIGHEST profits have the lowest pay scales around. And they ship(ped) thousands of jobs overseas so they could pay less than a dollar an hour to it's employees.

Must be nice for you, in your little bubble with silver and gold spoons in your mouth. Have you started smoking crack yet too?





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