Get rid of Minimum Wage, Save the World!

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by EyeDesign
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

If anything we need to raise minimum wage to $10/hr and make it so that goods produced outside of the United States costs a lot more to import. The minimum wage protects workers by making it so that those making the least can survive and minimum wage doesn't even support a living. The NWO wants it so that nobody gets paid for work least not the minimum wage! They want to return things to the slave order of getting the crap out of you or threatened with jail if you refuse to work for free. I don't hear anyone else talking about creating a 100% inheritance tax so that no wealth is handed down to anyone and everyone has a fair playing ground at birth. We need to find better solutions to our problems than the makeshift bandage that keeps falling off.

Raising the minimum wage with no raise in productivity only increase the cost of good produced. Costs of goods sold go up and inflation increase, making your minimum wage increase useless based on the increase of inflation and cost of living rising equally to the minimum wage increase. It washes out.

There is always the other side of the equation that you people never think of.

the problem with what you are saying is that productivity has been going up in america at a much faster rate than wages...there is ample proof of this in the statistical data. the productivity gains has gone to the top 1% for decades now, hence, the economic malaise...and, the wealthy know this, but their greed and apathy continues, unabated.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by EyeDesign
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

If anything we need to raise minimum wage to $10/hr and make it so that goods produced outside of the United States costs a lot more to import. The minimum wage protects workers by making it so that those making the least can survive and minimum wage doesn't even support a living. The NWO wants it so that nobody gets paid for work least not the minimum wage! They want to return things to the slave order of getting the crap out of you or threatened with jail if you refuse to work for free. I don't hear anyone else talking about creating a 100% inheritance tax so that no wealth is handed down to anyone and everyone has a fair playing ground at birth. We need to find better solutions to our problems than the makeshift bandage that keeps falling off.

Raising the minimum wage with no raise in productivity only increase the cost of good produced. Costs of goods sold go up and inflation increase, making your minimum wage increase useless based on the increase of inflation and cost of living rising equally to the minimum wage increase. It washes out.

There is always the other side of the equation that you people never think of.

the problem with what you are saying is that productivity has been going up in america at a much faster rate than wages...there is ample proof of this in the statistical data. the productivity gains has gone to the top 1% for decades now, hence, the economic malaise...and, the wealthy know this, but their greed and apathy continues, unabated.

I agree with you, but this is where i say, thats the governments fault. When the economy collapsed back in 08, the government came out and bailed all these "to big to fail" companys. If you would have let free market principals work, these companys would have fallen, ma and pop stores would have gladly filled the large gapping void left behind by these mega corps and "main" street would rise.

The MEGA corps are in bed with the government and have the tax payers backing there bad bets. Its a sick world.

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by EyeDesign
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

If anything we need to raise minimum wage to $10/hr and make it so that goods produced outside of the United States costs a lot more to import. The minimum wage protects workers by making it so that those making the least can survive and minimum wage doesn't even support a living. The NWO wants it so that nobody gets paid for work least not the minimum wage! They want to return things to the slave order of getting the crap out of you or threatened with jail if you refuse to work for free. I don't hear anyone else talking about creating a 100% inheritance tax so that no wealth is handed down to anyone and everyone has a fair playing ground at birth. We need to find better solutions to our problems than the makeshift bandage that keeps falling off.

Raising the minimum wage with no raise in productivity only increase the cost of good produced. Costs of goods sold go up and inflation increase, making your minimum wage increase useless based on the increase of inflation and cost of living rising equally to the minimum wage increase. It washes out.

There is always the other side of the equation that you people never think of.

the problem with what you are saying is that productivity has been going up in america at a much faster rate than wages...there is ample proof of this in the statistical data. the productivity gains has gone to the top 1% for decades now, hence, the economic malaise...and, the wealthy know this, but their greed and apathy continues, unabated.

I agree with you, but this is where i say, thats the governments fault. When the economy collapsed back in 08, the government came out and bailed all these "to big to fail" companys. If you would have let free market principals work, these companys would have fallen, ma and pop stores would have gladly filled the large gapping void left behind by these mega corps and "main" street would rise.

The MEGA corps are in bed with the government and have the tax payers backing there bad bets. Its a sick world.

edit on 7-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

Camero.....that is the best statement I have read in this thread. I doubt anyone can make a good case against that.

Oh I thought your title said
Get rid of the minimum wage and SLAVE the world.
Same thing I guess.

reply to post by camaro68ss


You're still trying to peddle this nonsense?

What else are you going to say next?

That we do away with the 8 hour workday? Sick pay? Health benefits? Dental? Retirement?

Come on, don't be be shy.

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

You're still trying to peddle this nonsense?

What else are you going to say next?

That we do away with the 8 hour workday? Sick pay? Health benefits? Dental? Retirement?

Come on, don't be be shy.

Minimum wage is forced by the government... the other things you mentioned are not, they are offered at the discretion of an employer. The reason they choose to offer the benefits you mention, among others, is to compete for and retain labor. Companies have to make employment attractive to potential employees, in order to gain and retain talented employees. The same principal can be and should be applied to the minimum wage. If there is a Taco Bell and McDonald's next to each other, and I need a job, it really doesn't matter which one I choose, because they pay the same, and that pay is required by the government, which in reality only protects corporate interests and allows large corporations to profit more because their labor costs are reduced because of the minimum wage requirement. I wonder how many of those corporations make donations to the politicians who support minimum wage? If the minimum wage were lifted, Taco Bell and McDoanld's would be forced to bid on potential labor, and then there really would be a choice for the person seeking employment. It would also lead to people actually caring about their job, which would lead to better output, quality, and in the end the consumer wins.

Ha ha ha, if you got rid of a minimum wage, companies would attempt to pay as little as possible to their employees. The concept of a minimum wage was to equalize the job markets. Instead of having jobs that payed well, and jobs the most people had that didn't pay well, they made it necessary for businesses to pay a " liveable" wage. The problem is not with the minimum but, rather the whole system itself. The top makes 99% of the money, the bottom makes 1% divided among the many employees. The greed of business is the driving force between the failure in economy. There is still competition in the job force. I have busted my ass to keep jobs that pay minimum wage, and busted it further to attempt to make more than that. Getting rid of the minimum would simply mean men and women would start lower than they do now.

Not every job is so secure you can do #ty work and keep your minimum. If you aren't up to snuff, you get fired. Plenty of jobs, have revolving doors with their workforce because of competitive work ethics. We don't live in a world where working harder means you get paid better, or keep your job. We live in a world where you make as much money as you were willing to pay to get there. The schooling you shelled out thousands for secures you better pay and better jobs, not working harder at that job.

There was a time, you could start out delivering a newspaper, and work your way to printing, distribution, writing, editing, then management. Not that way these days. Hell, you have to go to school be well paid writers or reporters these days. Doesn't take much to look pretty in front of a camera, or put together eligible sentences, but if you don't have a degree, good luck.

Companies could pay more to americans to promote productivity, yet choose the bare minimum. In fact; many companies outsource to foreign slave labor because they [wrongly] believe that the minimum wage is already too high here in the states. If you remove the minimum wage, sure jobs will come back, but because companies will begin paying less to workers.
Nationwide poverty will skyrocket, and the economy will tank... even more than it already has. Sorry, but it's a bad idea.

The minimum wage is already far below the living wage line.
We need to increase the amount people are making, but companies have proven time and time again (hence the need for a minimum wage) that they must be forced to be humane.

I could only get to page 2 sorry for not reading the entire thread the ops point was entirely ,missed and those who are not living in reality just recycle 100 year old rhetoric.

The fact is people have priced themselves out of existences, that is what both minimum wage and union wages are:

Getting paid for what the employee thinks they are worth instead of the actual work performed that has led to 40 million on welfare and out sourcing.

People love to vilify business and cry they don't have jobs, they don't pay me enough etc.

Just goes to show quite a few people have no idea of what free market means- the market dictates pay.

Originally posted by funnychick
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Must be nice for you, in your little bubble with silver and gold spoons in your mouth. Have you started smoking crack yet too?

The OP stated in another thread that "America is the richest nation in the world"

So the answer to your question must be a big fat yes

The assumption that high wages negate productivity are complete fabrication.

Look at Germany...strong Unions...high wages...high quality..high productivity.

The Powerhouse of Europe.

C...

reply to post by camaro68ss

Max wage is silly, great way to retard Innovation and Competition,

No it means that the disparity between rich and poor would decrease instead of increasing as it is in the US. Please explain to me how having trillions of dollars stashed in offshore bank accounts and owned by a very small percent of the population good for the economy. The US in taters for this very reason..

What you are suggesting has been tried and failed. Maybe you should look at what is happening in Norway. Corporations pay the highest tax in world. Oil profits taxed 78% and guess what... They have no national debt... Capping wealth does not hurt...

true, the less intervention there is, the more the markets would be able to work itself out and the healthier the paper economy would be.

But what is it you want to keep running and healthy? Do you want to the paper economy to be healthy, or do you want real people and stuff and services to flourish? Because if you put your focus on an healthy paper economy, when the system works itself out, it is the tangible economy that suffers. Those at the bottom have not the resources to sit out a correction.

Inflation is bad for lenders and those whom have a lot of capital and the means to generate an revenue. Also it isnt minimum wage which drives inflation. Minimum wage lags inflation. Before people suffer, so the economy works itself out, minimum wage should be raised on a regular basis, so that the disparity between the income brackets is mitigated.

Here's the problem with getting rid of the minimum wage: it only works if the labor supply is less scarce than the demand for labor, which isn't the case. Especially now that there is a global economy. The only feasible way for that to happen is if every single person on the planet became a consumer greater than the resources allocated to them. Remove the minimum wage in the US and you will drastically reduce unemployment, and while the cost of goods and services will come down, it won't be anywhere near enough to make up for the cost of purchasing power unless evey other country in the world also removes the minimum wage. Rather, in an effort to maximize profit people will start shipping PRODUCTS overseas as wealthier nations will pay more. Eventually, after a standard 30 year cycle wages will start to rise and by that time it will make more sense to use advanced robotics to fill just about every single blue collar job available and the beginning of the robotics and AI push into white collar jobs. Your thesis suffers from the same problems most armchair economists have: Lack of foresight and extreme localization. The United States might as well not be separated by an ocean from the rest of the world these days and you aren't taking into account technological advances which increase productivity with increasingly less need for workers.

Within the next 15 years you will see productivity and profits rise like no ones business provided there isn't some sort of terrible crash. What you won't see is a corresponding rise in employment. After those 15 years are up people will either consider a guaranteed minimum income or the rise of the largest underclass the world has ever known with low skilled workers doing whatever they can to hold on to the few jobs that remain and working for peanuts to do it because of huge supply of labor with relatively little demand.

Removing the minimum wage would make us competitive in terms of production jobs, the cost of goods would remain similar as they are already paying production workers next to nothing, service jobs would see a huge hit to their purchasing power... There is only one economic way to fix the problem and it is literally impossible: allocate all workers to high demand jobs and continue to grow demand for those jobs so that it out paces the supply as new workers are added. This would require that we have a technological explosion and that everyone increases their iq by some 40 to 50 points. Essentially without some sort of technological marvel we will either have to take care of people or they will be increasingly left behind.

Hey OP you're absolutely right. It will help bring manufacturing jobs back home because now hourly rate in America will be as competitive with the low wages over seas! Where did you get this idea from, the book "On how to increase huge corporate profits right here at home! and eliminate the middle class."

so many nay sayers for what the OP had to say. on the first page there were the expected idiots who put in a comment with absolutely NO backing up of why their "profound" ....... "bad idea' or ........ "won't work" type statements are valid. HOW PATHETIC!

The argument put by the OP is excellent (and that's coming from someone who has believed in labor and trade unions all of their 60+ years and in principle still does. But things have gotten out of control. And the fools in the union movement and family first type movements have gone overboard.

There was one comment that had some substance .... "no body stops employers from paying more than the minimum wage".

But by now, imo, due to the union's and PC groupie's influence, no employer is game to give the OP's idea a try. They will just be gobbled up by the greedy, lazy individuals out there.

Heck, this can even be taken further. Here in Australia (as in some other countries), the burn the bra brigade have harrassed until they have brought in bull5hit like paid parental leave, maternity leave etc How stupid!

The employers now have to pay the wage for the person on leave, pay for the training of a new person, pay the wage for that new person while the initial employee is "having a nice bonding time with their new born". THEN when the pregnant soon to be mum turns into a mum and spends say 12 months off work, the employer has to happily accept this now "out of touch with the workforce" person back into the fold and possibly have to retrain her or at least put up with her lower performance until she is up to speed again.

so what happens?

The employer decides NOT to employ women who "might get pregnant".

sure it's illegalNOT to, but they won't use THAT as an excuse, they will just choose someone less likely to get pregnant. And if anyone denies this, then imo they are one huge fool as it happens over and over and over.

They then realise that while waiting for the "right" employee to come along, they have been taking on casual staff who are giving them the work they want. People who are jumping from one job to another, people who are sharp enough not to have to be trained up. People who they don't have to pay sick leave to, holiday pay to, xmas loading to. Heck! the employer now realises that they have a way to ensure they WON'T be stuck with a lemon (either a bad employee or a pregnant employee)

so a majority of their work force becomes casual work.

THE EFFECT!

Young people can't now get full time work.
Young people can't get a home loan because banks and other lending societies rate them as a poor risk due to no permanent work.

Congratulations to all of the bra burning, fanatical union reps and others who fit into this short sighted group of politically correct idiots.

Your over the top greedy, grab grab grab attitude has completely backfired on the people you represent. The average joe blow who wanted nothing more than a decent, solid employment opportunity.

imo, take your matches, your sagging bras, your pushy attitude for pregnant women and hell, even "new born dads" and get lost.

If you hadn't pushed the employers to the limit, my kids would be able to get FULL TIME employment instead of casual work, they would be able to get that home loan, they would have have security.

If minimum wage was gone, the employers would start paying their employees less. They will see that as a perfect opportunity; and in the worse-case situation, they would pay people even LOWER and then make them work for a raise TO minimum wage, and if people can hardly survive on minimum wage I doubt THIS would be a good idea.

No minimum wage?

Why the hell do we want to try and be like Somolia?

Iceland doesn't have a minimum wage either mind you..instead, they have massive collective bargaining towards jobs and such...however given the ops general viewpoint on anything done by the collective..I am thinking the somolia aim is closer to the ideals presented than the Icelandic economy.

Foolish talk
Tell you what...go tell your manager you don't want them to acknowledge minimum wage for you personally and they should pay you simply what they want to pay you.

Who knows..maybe your company doesn't like making profits and will give you far more than the position requires based on skillset and present minimum wage measuring.

Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe
so many nay sayers for what the OP had to say. on the first page there were the expected idiots who put in a comment with absolutely NO backing up of why their "profound" ....... "bad idea' or ........ "won't work" type statements are valid. HOW PATHETIC!

Actually, the backing is called statistical fact of the global economy.
Anywhere on earth that has no minimum wage, that also does not have a very strong collective bargaining to make up for a lack of min wage, is a poverty stricken country with the haves and have nots.
Here is the wiki on global minimum wage...take note of the ones with none and no col bargaining to fill the vaccume.
Tell me which one then is your utopia
Wiki on Min Wage

Congratulations to all of the bra burning, fanatical union reps and others who fit into this short sighted group of politically correct idiots.

What tha..bra burning?

imo, take your matches, your sagging bras, your pushy attitude for pregnant women and hell, even "new born dads" and get lost.

Again with the bra's...you having garment issues?

If you hadn't pushed the employers to the limit, my kids would be able to get FULL TIME employment instead of casual work, they would be able to get that home loan, they would have have security.

You realize your moaning that we have a decent standard of living and won't be a slave labor society..right?

Again, look at the list (aka, the actual facts) before you speak your ideology. You will find your rant is very far removed from reality, regardless of what the corporate right wing media has programmed you to think.

Originally posted by arpgme
If minimum wage was gone, the employers would start paying their employees less. They will see that as a perfect opportunity; and in the worse-case situation, they would pay people even LOWER and then make them work for a raise TO minimum wage, and if people can hardly survive on minimum wage I doubt THIS would be a good idea.

You may be right, and if you are this would only happen for a short period of time. The reason, I believe, is that employees would just decide not to work there anymore. A minimum wage employee can't get by day to day as it is, which is why most of them are on some sort of government program, be it housing, WIC, foodstamps/EBT, etc... (or all of the above in a lot of cases). If an employer cut wages too much it wouldn't even be worth it to go to work anymore. It would be bad business for an employer to cut wages if minimum wage were lifted because that business wouldn't have ANY employees, and as a result it would go out of business. Smart business owners with the intellectual capacity to forecast future business trends would realize that they have no choice but to pay more, or at a bare minimum stay at the current minimum wage.

Another aspect to this is if the minimum wage were lifted, business could use that as a tool to put their competition out of business by offering better wages, thereby attracting better talent, which would lead to a better end product that consumers would most certainly choose over the competition. There would certainly be some growing pains, but in time I think that it would proove to be a good move.

One last thing, if there is to be a minimum wage, it should be at the individual state level... the Federal Government has no Constitutional authority to set a minimum wage, and if the FedGov feels that it has the authority to set a min wage, what is to stop them from setting a maximum wage? If the states were able to set their own minimum wage then states would be competing against each other for the labor force. For example, If the minimum wage were $8.00 an hour in Ohio, then Michigan could set their minimum wage to $9.50 and take the available labor force from Ohio, especially in the border area of the two states.