This old man has nothing to do with Jesus

Of course Jesus didn't make mistakes, he's a fictional character, he did whatever the writer decided he did.

I'm sorry if this reply is not what you asked for but you can't start a thread and then decide what replies are acceptable, especially on a topic as ridiculous as this.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
Of course Jesus didn't make mistakes, he's a fictional character, he did whatever the writer decided he did.

I'm sorry if this reply is not what you asked for but you can't start a thread and then decide what replies are acceptable, especially on a topic as ridiculous as this.

I have zero problems to have posts like yours here, don't be sorry because your opinion is different.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
To answer your question: The actual number is likely closer to 200 million.

Did you even read what you posted? Read your own cited article -- in that section, he's explaining where the excessively inflated numbers came from. He makes it abundantly clear that the numbers are far fewer than that, when unbiased sources are cited.

Adding in these deaths might explain the commonly quoted figure of 100 million killed by the Papacy. Adding in non-Christians killed in Europe might explain some of the higher figures. Adding in the total killed assuming half a percent killed per year in Europe for four hundred years would yield about 200 million total killed. Omitting those killed in the New World would yield a total of about 150 million. This might explain where many of the commonly quoted figures come from.

Your "200 million" comes from a starting point of the baseless claims of Protestants that the church killed a hundred million of them, adding in a statistical average of 1/2 of one percent of every human being (Christian or not) in Europe being killed by the church, every year, over a 400 year period for which there is absolutely no basis in fact, and then tacking on every human being killed in the New World by the Spanish. All, apparently, being the fault of the church.

Citing an article that debunks such idiocy is hardly a move in your favour. Never mind that David Plaisted is a computer science professor, not an historian, and that he's an outspoken creationist, which means he's hardly an unbiased source. And even so, he dismissed your "the actual number is likely closer to 200 million" statement out of hand.

Do you honestly believe that RELIGION is telling you the truth?

I suspect that they're a lot closer to the truth than someone who buttresses his arguments with fictions from dodgy sources that also believe in bigfoot, Nazi bases on the moon, and similar craziness, and who cites papers from unqualified and biased sources that actually refute the point that he's trying to make.

reply to post by Trueman


The way i understand it, Jesus said God was all everywhere and all around. Therefore Priests are not required. A "House of God" is not required. Basically, what he taught amounts to what Medieval Europe deemed as heresy. In other words, had Jesus been around in the Middle Ages, his Priests would have had him burnt at the stake for heresy!

I believe that is relevent as the Medieval Church spawned what we have today. Or, to put it another way, "this old man has nothing to do with Jesus".

reply to post by Trueman


You can't have a reasonable discussion on this blog site about Jesus . There are too many Antichrist on this site . Speaking of Antichrist , the Pope is supposed to be able to forgive sin and infallible .We know that Jesus warned about calling him or anyone else Father . And then we all know that Jesus was sent here to be offered as a sacrifice for sin . Now the pope is going to do it better? The whole Catholic thing was wrong from the start . The Pope is more connected to Satan than anything Holy in my opinion .Jesus also talked against repetitious prayers and such ceremony as the Pope does . Jesus knew all about the coming Vatican and it's power grab .
So many people have taken the Catholic travesty to define Christianity and use it to resist the word of God . How sad and what an injustice to mankind by the Vatican .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
Speaking of Antichrist , the Pope is supposed to be able to forgive sin

Speaking of Antichrist, are you saying that Jesus never said this?

And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.” (John 20:22-23 NASB)

... because that sure makes it sound like human beings can forgive sin.

An "Antichrist" is someone who denies the words of Christ, it doesn't refer to some mythical monster.

reply to post by SimonPeter


Yes, we can. We are suppose to find opposition when we search the truth.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

So, let me get this straight... you complained that no one had ever apologized for the church's repugnant behaviour in the past, I show you that the Pope did, twelve years ago, and your answer is "who cares?" That seems reasonable to you?

Where's the apology on the part of the Anglican, Reformed and Lutherans churches for the thousands of Catholics that they killed during the Reformation? Where's your righteous indignation over that?

The Crusades? That was in reaction to the Islamic invasion of Europe -- if the Catholics apologize for reestablishing Christian access to the Holy Lands, can they expect an apology from the Muslims for taking them in the first place?

For over a thousand years, the Catholic church was the sole protector of the Bible and defender of Christianity, and the Reformation only happened five hundred years ago, so like it or not, if you truly are a Christian, you owe that to the existence and work of the Roman Catholic church.

The title of this thread, "This old man has nothing to do with Jesus" is both shallow and a lie. Whether you like him or not, the Pope is the head of the church that Christ established, and the clothes he wears, food he eats and trees he has outside his apartment has as little to do with his faith in God as yours does.

Like I said, haters gotta hate... and still you wonder why the Pope would have bodyguards?

edit on 27-1-2013 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

Sole protector of the Bible and defender of Christianity? Sorry but my thought process and yours contrasts way too much.

Sole protector of the Bible - That's why the Church didn't want the Bible to be read by the masses. Or is it because the masses are too stupid to understand what is being said in scriptures because the nature and power of God is so limited thanks to man's limited scope of perception and precepts of religion that Father isn't with the poor stupid layman when he is humbly reading scriptures because the Church is God's church and God is only within the church and those that have high position in that church is closer to God than the rest of the masses. Pfst, the scriptures were read aloud in Latin to the masses that didn't even understand the dead language.

Defender of Christianity - If the Catholic Church is the defender of Christianity, then the Catholic Church is a schizophrenic being because it is its own worst enemy.

And I don't owe any thanks to the Catholic Church. It was God's plan for the Bible to be intact, would have had happened with or without the Catholic Church. The only thanks I can give to the Catholic Church is its role in the fulfillment of the cycle.

I don't take anything away from the Church. However, the standards are much higher when one is declaring truth.

Second off, I never said "who cares" in response to JP's apology nor did my response imply the such. My response was: IT's not good enough and that superficial apology is only a band aid. There is a course of actions when one is truly apologetic and I haven't seen it yet. You wouldn't have to say "let me get this straight" if you were to not skim through my posts with the intent of looking for holes to deconstruct.

Third, my "righteous indignation" at the Anglicans, Reformed, etc, is there. My reasoning behind my "righteous indignation" it is that the Mother (Catholicism) is getting her throne attacked by her Daughters who wish to rule. There's lots of figurative language going on there and I really don't wish to explain because you wouldn't even care. And BTW, the religious battles fought between the parties you named had a lot of political motives behind them so one may infer that the wars were fought under the pretense of religion but were more political in nature.

reply to post by GafferUK1981

Of course Jesus didn't make mistakes, he's a fictional character, he did whatever the writer decided he did. I'm sorry if this reply is not what you asked for but you can't start a thread and then decide what replies are acceptable, especially on a topic as ridiculous as this.

Jesus didn't exist.
The Bible is all fairy tales
And it didn't take a super intelligence A K A God, A K A Heavenly Father, to deposit the information via a coded language in the genome of DNA. When there is just no other way for information to get there.
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.
I think OP would appreciate it if you could at least keep the outright BS to a minimum.



Sorry OP but the call sign of ATS applies.

reply to post by adjensen


You must read who Jesus gave those instructions to . It was his apostles whom he chose . The pope is not an apostle . Also Jesus warned us not to call him or anyone father as being of deity . For your Father is in Heaven .He warned of repetitious prayer or chanting . We are not to worship Mary also for she was just a vessel to bring the Son of God to this earth in the flesh .

reply to post by SimonPeter


What was the point of giving that ability to one group of people, if it couldn't be passed along to others? Do you really mean that, prior to the death of John, men could forgive sins, and following the death of John, they couldn't? How does that make any sense?

Particularly since the concept of "Apostolic succession" has been a part of the church since that first generation -- Apostles appoint, instruct and bless their successors, and the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Anglican churches can all point back to Jesus on such an unbroken line.

reply to post by adjensen


Let me see uhhhhhhhhhh , your catholic right . The Catholic church has been the biggest stumbling block for people to follow Christ .Has the gifts of God followed the Pope . How many miracles has he done in the name of God . Call no man Father for your Father is in Heaven . Would Jesus approve of whats been going on in the Catholic church or putting people to death for heresy, or saying the world is round . Why did people fear the Catholic church so much. Why did the church put people to death when Jesus or the Apostles did not condone it . Look to Jesus for he is the Savior not Mary , Peter or Paul and certainly not the Catholic Pope .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by adjensen

 

Let me see uhhhhhhhhhh , your catholic right . The Catholic church has been the biggest stumbling block for people to follow Christ .Has the gifts of God followed the Pope . How many miracles has he done in the name of God . Call no man Father for your Father is in Heaven .

So you condemn Peter, Paul and John, all of whom are either called "Father" or refer to their followers as their "children", much the same thing? Do you reject the Bible because of those books that say such?

Would Jesus approve of whats been going on in the Catholic church or putting people to death for heresy, or saying the world is round .

The Catholic church did not put people to death for saying "the world is round", that's a false claim from the 1800s. See The Myth of the Flat Earth. The Catholic church is, and has long been, in fact, one of the primary proponents of science, as well as the founder of the modern university system and modern health care.

Why did the church put people to death when Jesus or the Apostles did not condone it .

Though the church's behaviour during the Inquisitions and Reformation is repugnant, the Protestant churches were no better -- it was the Protestants that did the witch burnings, liked to draw and quarter people, and who nearly wiped out the Anabaptists for saying that infant baptism wasn't Christian.

In other words... let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

reply to post by adjensen


Jesus the Son of God said it . That's good enough for me . I don't ever recall any apostle being called Father .Mary was not a deity nor ever will be . Rolling beads and acts of contrition required by another man who is not Holy is not recompense for sin . I know you call the Pope Holy but he is not sinless as Jesus was .
Following Jesus is not a tradition or club . Churches and preachers are all biased some more than others and a few have nothing to do with Jesus .
Read the Bible and repent of your sins and ask Jesus to save your soul , from there you are grafted into the Vine and it is the Vine which is Jesus . No where in that vine will you find the Pope or Billy Grahm leading the service . They are on the same level as you if they are truely grafted in .
Pray in the name of Jesus Christ only

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by adjensen

 

Jesus the Son of God said it . That's good enough for me .

Good enough for me, too

I don't ever recall any apostle being called Father .

You do read the Bible, right?

Paul:

I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. (1 Cor. 4:14–15)

Peter:

She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark. (1 Pet. 5:13)

John:

My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (1 John 2:1)

Mary was not a deity nor ever will be .

No one says she was. The Catholic Catechism (list of beliefs and rules for the whole church) specifically says that there is one God, and Mary ain't it.

Christmas before last I had a spiritual crisis or crackup during which time revelations were at a peak, and I am convinced that it wasn't just some sort of psychosis, but an authentic spiritual experience.

One of the convictions I had during that time, was that Jesus (as God) was being held hostage, and that part of the function of the Roman Catholic Church isn't to share Jesus and release His spirit upon the world for the sake of historical transformation, but to contain him and his teachings, even subtly distort them, so as to preserve the status quo, including the rule of the money makers who's final slight of hand places people in indentured servitude as slaves to Satan as the God of this world.

I was acutely aware of an inversion, with the "strong man" who is bound being Jesus, and the one released and set free, Satan, with all the crucifixes to this day having a double meaning, one of which is that of a demonized Jesus pinned to the cross as the left arm of God.

Don't know if it's true or if I was just delusional..

I do know this. At the upper eschalon of the church hierarchy, Jesus is either loved, or hated, and as far as I'm concerned the Jury on that is still out and from what I can tell, it's not so clear cut in the final analysis.

That said, the love of God cannot be repelled against and the Spirit of God is radically free like the wind, and his infinite intelligence capable of escaping any sort of double bind.

And if they've been up to some sort of occult nonsense relative to Jesus in the form of "magic arts" then someone somewhere is in one heap of trouble, that's all I know for certain.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
One of the convictions I had during that time, was that Jesus (as God) was being held hostage, and that part of the function of the Roman Catholic Church isn't to share Jesus and release His spirit upon the world

As a Catholic, I can tell you that this is not true -- for those who wish to "dig in", the Catholic church is an extremely spiritual body that encourages daily interaction with God, as opposed to the vast majority of Protestant churches, which are "Sunday social clubs", at best.

reply to post by adjensen

I'm not talking about the outer portico, but the inner sanctum. I'm talking about a playing of both sides against the middle at the highest level imaginable unto a universal conspiracy and controversy surrounding the issue of spiritual authority.

However, I admire your passion to dig in and honor and praise Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. That's another matter and I'm happy for you to have found a place of belonging and for you, authentic spiritual practice.

My experience was accompanied by certain signs and wonders, and severe spiritual attack, which led me to that conclusion/speculation.

Like I said, I might have been psychotic, but the way things went down, it makes me wonder.. I'll have to do a thread about it, about my experience, it would make a great story to share, but at the same time would subject me to ridicule while throwing out "pearls before swine".

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Here is a symbolic example of what I'm talking about



That's the "coat of arms" or emblam of the Salvation Army, founded by the Rothschild family, bankers to the Vatican in Rome.

..come along, on the one hand, all who are hungry and in need, and we'll give you a bowl of soup, while on the other imprisoning Christ in a bowl of blood and fire..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
That's the "coat of arms" of the Salvation Army, founded by the Rothschild family, bankers to the Vatican in Rome.

Sorry, I don't believe in any of that crap.

The Salvation Army evolved out of the Methodist church (my former congregation,) not out of some ridiculous Illuminati fantasy. It is a Protestant faith, not a Catholic one.

All those ridiculous conspiracy theories do is distract people from the real issues of the world. Who needs to help the poor or fight for social justice or for the preservation of human dignity when we can just blame it all on some fictitious organizations and say that there's nothing we can do (since fighting a fictitious organization has never helped anything.)

If people spent even a minute fraction of the time that they whiz away on such abject fantasies actually trying to help others, the world would be a better place.