This old man has nothing to do with Jesus, page 4

reply to post by Trueman

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The hypocrisy of religion.

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by adjensen

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Originally posted by adjensen
Yeah, I guess you missed this:

POPE JOHN PAUL II: We humbly ask for forgiveness for the part that each of us with his or her behaviors has played in such evils thus contributing to disrupting the face of the church. At the same time, as we confess our sins let us forgive the faults committed by others towards us.

Pope John Paul II Makes Unprecedented Apology For Sins of Catholic Church

That happened in 2000, ancient history, I guess.

It’s all fine and dandy making grandiose speeches, but where are all the tons of News articles, a TV reports etc… of priests (that did you know what!) who sought out forgiveness, from the people they committed grievous sins against???

According to Jesus, men must first seek out forgiveness from those they have wronged, before asking for Gods forgiveness…

Matthew 5:23-24
Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Of course, according to the Catholic Church, you can just go into a booth, confess your sins, and the guy there, will forgive you of those sins.

Nothing wrong with confessing your sins, but the guy in the booth, has no right to forgive those sins. The only person who should be forgiving you, is the person you have wronged, as Jesus mentions in (Matthew 5:23-24) and baring that, the only other who can forgive, is Jesus, and God the Father in Heaven.
- JC

The lack of tv coverage doesn't mean that apologies have not been offered. And, of course, because they are offered is no reason to automatically accept them.

The Pope and other members of the Church have met with victims and their families offering apologies for what has happened under their stewardship.

And regarding confession: “Receive the Holy Spirit. For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sins you retain, they are retained” (John 20:22-23). The Catholic Church believes that today's Priests are the successors to the Apostles to whom this was directed.

You might want to look into what actually happens in a confession, btw. The Priest will quite often put a restriction upon the confessor, directing him to make restitution to the offended party.

Eric

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

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So, let me get this straight... you complained that no one had ever apologized for the church's repugnant behaviour in the past, I show you that the Pope did, twelve years ago, and your answer is "who cares?" That seems reasonable to you?

Where's the apology on the part of the Anglican, Reformed and Lutherans churches for the thousands of Catholics that they killed during the Reformation? Where's your righteous indignation over that?

The Crusades? That was in reaction to the Islamic invasion of Europe -- if the Catholics apologize for reestablishing Christian access to the Holy Lands, can they expect an apology from the Muslims for taking them in the first place?

For over a thousand years, the Catholic church was the sole protector of the Bible and defender of Christianity, and the Reformation only happened five hundred years ago, so like it or not, if you truly are a Christian, you owe that to the existence and work of the Roman Catholic church.

The title of this thread, "This old man has nothing to do with Jesus" is both shallow and a lie. Whether you like him or not, the Pope is the head of the church that Christ established, and the clothes he wears, food he eats and trees he has outside his apartment has as little to do with his faith in God as yours does.

Like I said, haters gotta hate... and still you wonder why the Pope would have bodyguards?

Originally posted by adjensen
For over a thousand years, the Catholic church was the sole protector of the Bible and defender of Christianity...

Religion is not only a LIE it is also a form of mind control....

This is the reason WHY so many believe what you just said when in FACT, just the opposite is true.

This is WHY religion is so dangerous, it is nothing less than cult brainwashing.

The Roman Catholic "Church" HATES the Word of God just like all other cults do.

The Vatican has numerous documents declaring her hatred for the Word.

After The Roman Catholic church got underway, they immediately started killing Bible believing Christians with the Inquisition. Christians were and still ARE considered an enemy to Romes pagan beliefs
www.youtube.com...

"Opened on Thursday alongside the Inquisition archives was the infamous Index of Forbidden Books, which Roman Catholics were forbidden to read or possess on pain of excommunication. They showed that even "the Bible" was once on the blacklist. Translations of the holy book ended up on the bonfires along with other ``heretical'' works...

"Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; ...we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."
paintingpictures.xanga.com...

"...the RCC killed and tortured over 50 million bible believing Christians during the Catholic Inquisition whose only heresy was that they would not pay homage to the Pope and place him on equal ground with Jesus Christ and owned a Bible which was srictly forbidden by the RCC so that they know not the truth....
www.raptureforums.com...

Roman Catholics and the pope wanted to use the Council of Trent to stop those godless Protestants and Destroy their heretical Bible.
www.theologyweb.com...

WHY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH COULD NOT HAVE GIVEN US THE BIBLE

The Catholic Church could not have given us the Bible for the very simple and
conclusive reason that the Catholic Church was non-existent for several
centuries after the Bible was given to the world.

This history also disproves the Catholic claim that they gave the world the complete
Bible at the Council of Hippo in A.D. 390. This is false because we had the
complete Bible early in the second century, before the existence of the Catholic
Church.

The Catholic Church did not give us the Bible because no religious movement
gives literature that condemns the very teaching of that religious movement.

If the Catholic Church gave the Bible to us why does it so thoroughly condemn the
Roman Catholic hierarchy and the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church?

If the Catholic Church gave the world the Bible why has she always opposed the
Bible?

As you can see from their own writings the Catholic Church has always
opposed the Bible. Why then did the Catholic Church give us the Bible
according to their claim? If the Catholic Church is the official interpreter of the
Bible then why did God wait several centuries after giving the Bible to establish
the Catholic Church?

www.portlandchristians.net...

I've got news for you, so brace yourself. The first picture of "Jesus" is a complete misrepresentation as well.

Too Aryan
Expensive linens
Long hair of a Nazarite not the short hair of a Nazarene

You'd be looking for a extremely brown fellow (since he was often travelling through desert) with rather dull and dusty robes of course material (not expensive pure white and what appears to be Egyptian cotton) with a hair cut that most likely was achieved with a knife.





This is only speaking of the physical misconceptions that your mind unconsciously harbours. Shall we talk about the other more important ones as well?

Originally posted by Philodemus
I've got news for you, so brace yourself. The first picture of "Jesus" is a complete misrepresentation as well.

Too Aryan
Expensive linens
Long hair of a Nazarite not the short hair of a Nazarene

You'd be looking for a extremely brown fellow (since he was often travelling through desert) with rather dull and dusty robes of course material (not expensive pure white and what appears to be Egyptian cotton) with a hair cut that most likely was achieved with a knife.





This is only speaking of the physical misconceptions that your mind unconsciously harbours. Shall we talk about the other more important ones as well?

edit on 27-1-2013 by Philodemus because: (no reason given)

Well, if that is true...., certainly it would be a "look" the Pope will never want to have.

reply to post by Trueman

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FUNNY! But there is no "IF".

reply to post by Murgatroid

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Why do you insist on lying about other Christians? You'll be asked to account for yourself someday, and God knows the truth, even if you want to ignore it.

"...the RCC killed and tortured over 50 million bible believing Christians during the Catholic Inquisition whose only heresy was that they would not pay homage to the Pope and place him on equal ground with Jesus Christ and owned a Bible which was srictly forbidden by the RCC so that they know not the truth....

50 million Bible believing Christians killed during the Inquisition? Are you kidding? Do you know what the ENTIRE population of Europe was in the 1600s?

Do you even think before posting garbage like this? As I said, by your own faith, you will be called before God one day to explain your lies about others.

Originally posted by adjensen
Why do you insist on lying about other Christians? You'll be asked to account for yourself someday, and God knows the truth, even if you want to ignore it.

Two words: Catholic Deception

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

I HIGHLY recommend listening very closely to what Jesus told us about casting stones at others instead of listening to what religion is telling you...

The Catholic church is filled with nothing BUT falsehood, lies, and deceptions.

If you can''t see it, ask the Lord to remove the plank from your eyes.

THE FUNDAMENTAL LIES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

reply to post by Murgatroid

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Do you honestly believe that "50 million Bible believing Christians" were killed during the Spanish Inquisition?

Originally posted by Murgatroid
If you can''t see it, ask the Lord to remove the plank from your eyes.

THE FUNDAMENTAL LIES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Here's another article from your linked web site:

Current Moon Bases and Their History, which includes this doozy:

The NSA astronauts were there in 1958. They have been there ever since, as has a secret portion of the Russian government called the "Black Guard". Upon arriving on the surface of the moon, the NSA astronauts (with their Grey "tour guides"), were taken to the underground facilities where the remains and skeletons of reptilian-like beings and human beings, as well as Orion technology, were located.

This location has been identified by the Andromedans as underneath the crater designated "Jules Verne" on the far side of the moon in the southern hemisphere, and this underground facility is approximately the size of New York State. These underground facilities contain huge lakes, transplanted earth planet life, and alien manufacturing equipment that was abandoned and left there from the previous occupants of the facility a long time ago.

Sure, I'm going to consider your other article a credible source on the Catholic church.

Originally posted by adjensen
Sure, I'm going to consider your other article a credible source on the Catholic church.

And yet you believe that the Catholic "church" is a credible source?

Originally posted by adjensen
Do you honestly believe that "50 million Bible believing Christians" were killed during the Spanish Inquisition?

Do you honestly believe that RELIGION is telling you the truth?

To answer your question: The actual number is likely closer to 200 million.

Catholic historian Vergerius admits gleefully that during the Pontificate of Pope Paul IV (1555-1559) "the Inquisition alone, by tortures, starvation, or the fire, murdered more than 150,000 Protestants."

"it is estimated by credible historians that more than 50,000,000, men and women have been slaughtered for the crime of heresy"

Halley’s Bible Handbook states “Historians estimate that, in the Middle Ages and Early Reformation Era, more than 50,000,000 Martyrs perished.” Furthermore, speaking of Innocent III, Halley writes [p. 776], “More Blood was Shed under his direction, and that of his immediate successors, than at any other period of Church History...

Adding in these deaths might explain the commonly quoted figure of 100 million killed by the Papacy. Adding in non-Christians killed in Europe might explain some of the higher figures. Adding in the total killed assuming half a percent killed per year in Europe for four hundred years would yield about 200 million total killed. Omitting those killed in the New World would yield a total of about 150 million. This might explain where many of the commonly quoted figures come from.

ESTIMATES OF THE NUMBER KILLED BY THE PAPACY

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by Murgatroid

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Do you honestly believe that "50 million Bible believing Christians" were killed during the Spanish Inquisition?

?????

Wait.......during the Spanish Inquisition, didn't they kill people for NOT being Bible believing Christians?

reply to post by EricD

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Originally posted by EricD
The lack of tv coverage doesn't mean that apologies have not been offered. And, of course, because they are offered is no reason to automatically accept them.

It’s not about apologizing, it’s about individually seeking forgiveness from the people you have wronged. Not by making a broadcasting speach, or by sending them a “I’m sorry” text message.

I’m talking about individual stories, where priests have actually went out of their way, and sought out those they have wronged.

Where are all the reports, stories etc… like that??? There have been like thousands of abuse cases. So show me at least 10 to 20 or more cases, where an individual priest, actually did just that?

Originally posted by EricD
The Pope and other members of the Church have met with victims and their families offering apologies for what has happened under their stewardship.

That’s not the same thing as the individual who wronged someone else, actually seeking the victims out for himself, instead of having someone else apologize on his behalf. Did you not read my last post or something?

Originally posted by EricD
And regarding confession: “Receive the Holy Spirit. For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sins you retain, they are retained” (John 20:22-23).

It’s not about forgiving someone, who has done no wrong to you… this is where the misconception lies IMO

John 20:23
If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

John 20:23 has to be viewed in relation to Matthew 5:23-24

Matthew 5:23-24
Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

For example, if you went and killed a family members son, and you come to me asking for forgiveness. It’s not my place to forgive you, because firstly, I’m not the Father God, and secondly, you haven’t wronged me, in any way, shape, or form. So that verse you mentioned i.e. John 20:23 has to tied into Matthew 5:23-24. So you would have to seek out the family members and ask their forgiveness, and then Gods. Restitution with the offended party, should always be the first port of call…no exceptions…

Originally posted by EricD
You might want to look into what actually happens in a confession, btw. The Priest will quite often put a restriction upon the confessor, directing him to make restitution to the offended party.

It doesn’t matter what happens in a confession, its set up completely the wrong way, to begin with IMO. Like I said above, restitution with the offended party, is the first and only option, plus it’s Biblical, and if that’s not possible, then praying to the Father God, is the last option.


- JC

reply to post by Trueman

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Either way, I still think the new Pope looks just like Emperor Palpatine...

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