Mental Illness and your right to bear arms

To start with here is a link to the 23 EO's that Obama recently signed without congressional approval:
23 EO's

Normally, in order to lose the right to bear arms you have to become a convicted felon. wikipedia However with these recent EO's that Obama signed, it allows him to circumvent this procedure. In order to become a felon, one has to be arrested for a felony offense, tried in a court of law, allowed to be have adequate legal defense, and found guilty by a jury of your peers. In effect Obama is giving ALL of this power to a psychiatrist or doctor. This is a severe violation of our civil rights.

A doctor will be allowed to pronounce you mentally unfit to own a gun. Thereby denying you the right to bear arms. So basically all you need to do is go to school for about eight years, get a phd in medical science, and start a medical practice; and you have the same power as a jury and court of law to strip rights. Why are we allowing Obama to empower certain professions to do this? We need to stand up and say that this isn't ok. You shouldn't be able to take my rights away unless I broke a law. This whole preventive law nonsense is a slippery slope. Where does it all end?

Also what constitutes being mentally unfit to own a gun? Schizophrenia? Bi-polar? Depression? Alcoholism? There are many Americans in this country right now who have been diagnosed with these mental illnesses and are fully functioning with or without drugs. I have ADD, does that mean I cannot own a gun either? To make matters worse, what if you get a crappy doctor who doesn't know the proper symptoms and diagnoses you with an illness that you don't know? Or what if the doctor is having a bad day and just throws some pills at you, fills out a preliminary diagnoses, and gets rid of you?

Anyways if this must be done, how about starting with Sociopaths and Psychopaths, and we all know that sociopaths and psychopaths gravitate towards positions of power and control. Give these politicians a taste of their own medicine. Of course we all know that they aren't talking about themselves. No matter what legislation is passed, they will be exempt despite being indirectly and directly responsible for killing many civilians around the world without batting an eye.

Sure someone with mental illness could snap and go on a killing spree, but these things happen. I don't want to sound callous, but everyone dies. They haven't found a way to make us immortal yet. Sure it sucks when a parent has to bury their children or someone dies before their time, but these things have been happening since life began on this planet. Life can get scary sometimes, but in the end we are all worm food anyways. Why do we have to make some demographics of people miserable so we can feel safer when they haven't done anything wrong? Look deep down in yourself and ask yourself if you think this is fair for these people.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t

Sure someone with mental illness could snap and go on a killing spree, but these things happen. I don't want to sound callous, but everyone dies. They haven't found a way to make us immortal yet. Sure it sucks when a parent has to bury their children or someone dies before their time, but these things have been happening since life began on this planet. Life can get scary sometimes, but in the end we are all worm food anyways. Why do we have to make some demographics of people miserable so we can feel safer when they haven't done anything wrong? Look deep down in yourself and ask yourself if you think this is fair for these people.

Because despite the fact that humans have been living with the reality of death for the totality of the existence of the species we still fear the # out of it and cant deal with it so we layer useless and pointless imaginary protections over and over and over.

But dont forget how stupid we are.

While we layer all these protections we suck down greasy hamburgers and cigarettes like manna from heaven.

first step to a Gestapo State, that is to say " one is unfit to own , but not to serve". The gun grab is in full swing do not be fooled , they do want your guns , all of them, or prevent you from owning them This act does prevent you from owing any type not just a selected type , how many could pass a sic test ? Ask your self this
Why do you want a fire Arm?
Would you use it to kill?
Would you use it for fun?
Would you use it to take an others life ?
how many could pass that test?

Crazy people shouldn't own guns. End of story. People who are deemed a threat to others.

It's the same reason why you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, you're infringing on everyone safety. It's the same reason you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun, you're not deemed mentally responsible.

reply to post by Krazysh0t
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So basically all you need to do is go to school for about eight years, get a phd in medical science, and start a medical practice; and you have the same power as a jury and court of law to strip rights

Damn, i didn't know it was so simple to be a doctor, have you even tried to get into a med school? easy isn't it?

what if you get a crappy doctor who doesn't know the proper symptoms and diagnoses you with an illness that you don't know? Or what if the doctor is having a bad day and just throws some pills at you, fills out a preliminary diagnoses, and gets rid of you?

You can always get a 2nd, 3rd, 4th doctor's verification. Cost should not matter, i mean look how easy is it to become a doctor according to you.

Sure someone with mental illness could snap and go on a killing spree, but these things happen. I don't want to sound callous, but everyone die

These things happen? it can be controlled, isn't that the whole reason why pro-gun are blaming drugs and mental illness? so you are saying, guns are the problem and mental people should be giving firearms without psych check??

Also what constitutes being mentally unfit to own a gun? Schizophrenia? Bi-polar? Depression? Alcoholism? There are many Americans in this country right now who have been diagnosed with these mental illnesses and are fully functioning with or without drugs. I have ADD...

Some can be easily diagnosed to be a unstable on the spot, that would reduce high amount of unstable people with guns.

Rest of the disease, according to their severity and the person's mental condition will be varied accordingly.

I don't think ADD person is going to go on a rampage. Schizophrenic possibly can.

It's a very fine line really. Not everyone with Mental Health Disorders are Violent. Not every Schziophrenic in the throws of Psychosis will harm another person, the same with Manic and Depressive episodes. There is however more of a probability that some of these people could turn a gun on themselves to end their pain.

There are so many varying degrees of Mentall Illness, two people with the same disorder can be incredibly different. One could lead a normal life, the other it could consume their whole lives. Each person diagnosed needs to be treated as an individual.

You mention "Sure someone with mental illness could snap and go on a killing spree, but these things happen".

I personally believe even the strongest of people under the right set of circumstances could snap and go on killling sprees.

Do you want someone like this owning guns?

That's scary because now less people will be willing to talk to their doctors and get help. It shouldn't be such a cut and dry process, it should take more than one docs opinion first and foremost, then a trip to the neurologist (because they are the ones who truly understand brains). Then after all that maybe, because yes some people can snap at any moment but that's almost always not the case

Too many doctors nowadays prescribe medication for any and everything it's gotten way out of hand. They do it because they get kickbacks from the drugmakers. Too many women have a hormone imbalance they dont realize and they get diagnosed with depression when that's not the case at all. And the bigget problem is the missdiagnosis is going to cause even more problems.

How many times have we heard about people going mad and on a killing spree just to find out they were on drugs prescribed by their docs. Or how about the ones who feel a little bit moody and get given medication then become so deeply entrenched in sadness they kill themselves.

Or the goth teen whose parents just dont understand why they like to wear black instead of happy freaking
rainbows.They get put on meds before they are fully developed and never have the chance to know the full potential of the use of their brains because they were forced to stay on the pills.

This madness has got to stop.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

While we layer all these protections we suck down greasy hamburgers and cigarettes like manna from heaven.

Slowly killing yourself via bad health habits and getting gunned down by a loon is two totally different situations. And not everyone that gets shot dies. A lot of people get paralyzed or debilitated in a variety of ways. Their quality of life is ruined forever.

reply to post by WaterBottle


Not everybody with Schizophrenia has the same experiences when psychotic. That is just a video to help people understand what it can be like for some living with Schizophrenia. Not a one size fits all definition of the condition.

reply to post by skitzspiricy


Yeah, I understand that. My father has schizophrenia.

reply to post by brandiwine14

That's scary because now less people will be willing to talk to their doctors and get help. It shouldn't be such a cut and dry process...

Of course not, i mean if you smile and not stay in your room forever and talk to friends, chances you are OK.

these laws would only limit the extremist... that are known to disrupt the neighbourhood, got into altercations many times involving law or police, abuse, many drunken driving problems... very highly unstable people can be easily noticed... very highly unstable person would have trouble performing simple things, it sometimes would be hard for them to be in one place for a while, not very patience.

reply to post by luciddream


I may have over simplified the process to become a doctor, but as it stands there are close to 700k physicians in the US right now. So obviously its not like its super impossible to become one. Sure you can get multiple opinions from different doctors, but after the first one diagnoses you with an illness that denies your 2nd amendment rights, we do not know how hard it will be to regain your right with multiple opinions.

If someone has a mental illness and hasn't done anything to anyone, who are we to tell them that they are too irresponsible to own a gun? If they are going to flip and kill people, they'd do it with or without a gun. Do you know how easy it is to look up on the internet how to make homemade bombs or even a potato gun?

This whole preventive law nonsense is a slippery slope. Where does it all end?

With everyone locked in cages or dead, except for the extremely meek and easily controlled.

They have to leave someone to do the work...

reply to post by WaterBottle


Well has he done anything to harm anyone else? He could just as easily go to a store and buy a kitchen knife and go on a stabbing spree, or go online and look up how to build a bomb. Heck all he really needs is a few gallons of gasoline and a pack of matches and he could torch a building full of people. Yet he hasn't done any of these things, yet you deem him unfit to own a gun.

Again, the process we have setup in this country to strip rights requires a court of law and a jury of your peers. We shouldn't be giving this power to a single person who may not have your best interests at heart (possibly the governments).

Originally posted by skitzspiricy
I personally believe even the strongest of people under the right set of circumstances could snap and go on killling sprees.

This is a very good point. Sometimes the stress of life gets to some people and they snap and kill a bunch of people. We cannot prevent these things because these people are well adjusted people beforehand. Though I bet you that after their spree is over, the media and government will label them with some sort of mental illness.

So blind people cant drive. Whats that have to do with the other 300mill + americans that still can and do? Nothing.

If your not mental then your right to keep and bear isnt effected. Real simple.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
Also what constitutes being mentally unfit to own a gun? Schizophrenia? Bi-polar? Depression? Alcoholism? There are many Americans in this country right now who have been diagnosed with these mental illnesses and are fully functioning with or without drugs. I have ADD, does that mean I cannot own a gun either?

Actually, if you're taking something like Adderall or Ritalin or Concerta for your ADD, then you are already not allowed to own a gun!

There are already laws on the books stating that if you are taking a "controlled substance" you can not have a gun. Since these increasingly commonly-prescribed medications are considered "controlled substances" this would mean you, and anyone like you.

And you do make some great points. Additionally, you are correct in that you may be unaware of a diagnosis. Lots of people these days end up talking to a therapist when they're depressed or experiencing anxiety, or social anxiety (yes, what used to be called "shyness" or "awkwardness" is now a mental disorder) or ADD (which IMO 75% of people out there fit the symptoms for). And it is possible, in that unassuming talk with a psych that you may be diagnosed with something you are not informed of. This exact thing happened to me. After talking to someone, I was given a diagnosis I was not made aware of, which I did not find out until a meeting with a new Primary Care Physician when the doc mentioned the diagnosis appearing in my medical record.

So yes, all of that is plausible.

And scary.

This truly is a push to strip many, many americans of their rights.

Keep in mind that the DSM, the Diagnostic Manual used by the Psych industry was recently updated and I would bet anything that it includes new disorders, and a wider range of symptoms for existing disorders. And that, friends, is just a little too conveniently coincidental for The Powers That Be.

This is truly scary stuff.

IMO "felons" should not have their rights automatically stripped either. I would only agree to that in cases where the felony was a violent one, and the offender had a reasonably high chance to re-offend. Keep in mind that there are many laws which one can break, which are considered "felonies" which are not even remotely violent. In today's America, even possessing certain kinds of plants can make one a "felon."

I really hope people don't buy what they're trying to sell here. These are far over-reaching measures, and they need to be stopped before it's too late.

reply to post by Logarock


There is a big difference from being blind and being mentally ill. A blind person is physically incapable of actually driving because the act of driving primarily requires your eyesight. Meanwhile the act of owning a gun requires so much more than being able to think normally. A mentally ill person may have trouble doing normal things or go about it differently than the rest of us, but can still process that killing people is wrong and demonstrate proper gun use.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


OK if they can make all these things, why do they always default to the guns?

im sure there is something, why almost all modern serial killers are going for guns instead of higher collateral damage like a bomb?

Simple, its easy to obtain, anywhere, by anyone, anytime.