Should homosexual PE teachers be allowed in the locker rooms of the same sex?

The point is Schools dont admit male or female teachers in to there respective opposite sex changing rooms. So why should they let Gay teachers go where ever they want???

Are they special? No.

Do they deserve or require more rights than others? Seems so these days.

Work it out people! Just because you are gay dont mean you have special privileges!

reply to post by andy06shake

Just because you are gay dont mean you have special privileges!

Can you list all these special privileges gay people have?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


"Can you list all these special privileges gay people have?"

One thing that springs to mind is the removal of the word Father from Scottish NHS pamphlets regarding parenthood simply because ONE SAME SEX COUPLE complained. Lesbian's i imagine as two gay dads simply would not find issue with the word Father.

This cost £90,000 in reprinting, paid by us the tax payer. That seems to me to be a special privilege! It also seems to have annoyed rather a lot of Father's myself included. Why are my privileges being compromised by a minority???

If you require others Google is you friend!

reply to post by andy06shake

If you require others Google is you friend!

You don't owe me an explanation, so if that's all you want to share that's your 'special privilege'

If I wanted to talk to Google I wouldn't be on ATS. This is a discussion forum. Not a redirect to Google.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


"You don't owe me an explanation, so if that's all you want to share that's your 'special privilege'"

I dont owe anybody any explanation granted but you asked me to list any special privilege's, i gave you one, a big one! What are your thoughts on the removal of the word Father from public health guides? Does this not qualify as a special privilege?

"If I wanted to talk to Google I wouldn't be on ATS. This is a discussion forum. Not a redirect to Google."

Not asking you to talk on Google mate, simply asking you to use said engine for research purposes. Your own that is im not going to do the work for you. Infact use any search engine of your choice. I dont want to seem to be promoting Google! LoL

reply to post by andy06shake

What are your thoughts on the removal of the word

You're wrong.

Please use Google for your research as to why you're wrong. I am not going to do the work for you.

How does that look when it's turned around on you?

Silly I hope.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Pray tell, how am i wrong exactly? Are you disputing the fact that the SNP government body for Scotland removed the word Father from parenthood guides and pamphlets due to ONE SAME SEX COUPLE complaining?

"Dad has been removed from a taxpayer-funded baby guide after a single complaint ... The Scottish NHS guide, called Ready Steady Baby, now features the word partner instead of Dad"

Google that my friend!

And you have still not answered my questions.

What are your thoughts on the removal of the word Father from public health guides?

Does this not qualify as a special privilege?

reply to post by andy06shake


You really didn't get the intention of my last post...

I am not saying you're wrong. I was making a point.

Anyways. I feel this conversation is over. Or at least I lost interest. When people tell me to Google answers instead of providing them, it tends to have that effect on me.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Conversation is over because you dont want to address those 2 simple questions!

Peace mate!

Have a good day!

Originally posted by andy06shake
The point is Schools dont admit male or female teachers in to there respective opposite sex changing rooms. So why should they let Gay teachers go where ever they want???

Are they special? No.

Do they deserve or require more rights than others? Seems so these days.

Work it out people! Just because you are gay dont mean you have special privileges!

edit on 24-1-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

So then, I assume your position is that the same gay teachers should be using the restroom of the oppositie sex; i.e., a gay male teacher should be using the women's room?

And another quick question, which I have posed multiple times and have yet to get a decent answer to: What of teachers who are not out, publicly? Would you force them to come out?

reply to post by captaintyinknots

And another quick question, which I have posed multiple times and have yet to get a decent answer to: What of teachers who are not out, publicly? Would you force them to come out?

I know a PE teacher who is gay and has chosen not to 'come out' to his students. His colleagues all know and went to his informal party for getting 'married' to his military partner. He's not a bad male role-model in the sense that he's a big fella, ex-Army and tattooed from shoulder to foot.

Like any teacher, his sexuality isn't relevant to his subject. Anyone wanting teachers to wear their sexuality as some form of badge should consider the role of prejudice in society too.

It's like here in England where we've statistically had about 2 gay footballers ever. There's a good reason why gay people keep quiet in some professions and prejudice is high on that list. In recent history, two Premier-League players (La Saux and Campbell) were called 'shirt-lifters' by fans and opponents and who'd open themselves up to that crap if they didn't need to??

reply to post by captaintyinknots


"So then, I assume your position is that the same gay teachers should be using the restroom of the oppositie sex; i.e., a gay male teacher should be using the women's room?"

You know what they say about assumption? The only people who should be in Womans laveratory's are Woman, the only people that should be in Mens toilets are Men. Thats what the signs are for. LoL! Gay or straight is not the issue in a toilet i hope, dressing rooms and teachers are a different matter less privacy more room for abuse IMHO.

"And another quick question, which I have posed multiple times and have yet to get a decent answer to: What of teachers who are not out, publicly? Would you force them to come out?"

How the hell could i do that, and why? Now you are taking the proverbial vagina!

I think some posters have gotten to the crux, and downright dangerous part of the concern about "homosexuals" in school locker rooms.

Since being "gay" is a claimed identity, there's no way of telling who is homosexual or not.

If one bans homosexuals from locker rooms, then one could ban teachers simply on a suspicion of homosexuality.
In fact, any teacher the learners don't like could be banned on an accusation.
There's nothing that states that only openly known homosexual gym teachers should be banned from locker rooms.
Homosexuality is not confined to openly gay people.

For that reason I think rules of propriety should apply to all teachers in locker rooms, and the shower area should be apart from the teacher, unless he needs to enter it in an emergency or disorder.
From that point it is easy to cover with a towel, if the learners feel uncomfortable.
The shower space should be walled off for the learners, and it should never be acceptable for an older person to shower with the learners, or stare at them.

To that one might add that gay men are men, and not women.
They may share some attractions with women, but their bodies are judged in comparison to other men, and with other men.

I'd also rather trust an openly gay man than some guy in a marriage with a wife and kids, because the closet cases are the biggest pervs, and almost all these busted toilet-sex cases are closeted or bisexual "straight" men.
In HIV-speak straight men who have gay sex are called MSM (men who have sex with men).
In some cultures only feminine and passive men are considered "gay".
I've seen a somewhat feminine straight music teacher hounded out on a suspicion that he was gay, when he was actually totally straight.

On the other hand, I can understand the anxiety and seeming double-standards.
But, can one really call a gay male "privileged" for being in a locker room with all other men?
I'd say that's a very effective equalizer, rather than a special privilege.

Although narratives exist to show that gay and straight men lived at close quarters through several wars without problems, the current radical gay identity is an off-shoot of the sexual revolution.

Thus, being openly gay, I wouldn't become a gym teacher.
I wouldn't get a job that would make others feel uncomfortable.

However, in adult spaces like art or music festivals or so, I will claim my right to shower.
I've never had a problem.
I think this is more of a theoretical issue than a practical one.
There is an etiquette and male socialization to the issue.
I'd say I feel more vulnerable and shy being gay in those unavoidable situations than most straight men.
Reality is never a fantasy.

First they had this "problem" with the army, and now with schools.

What's next?
Straight questions about homosexual nurses in hospitals and clinics?

Although it's a concern, I bet the hysteria comes from straight men who follow religious books that tell them gays don't really exist; they are just bad straight people who chose their attraction.

So maybe they think that apart from mental terror they can isolate and punish us?
Maybe they think we'll turn when deprived of visual temptation?
Then we'll become ex-gays, and we can all shower together again?
Practically I don't think communal showers are really enjoyed in a sexual sense.
In that sense a practical reality is often confused with a fantasy, and a kind of knee-jerk straight fantasy of showering with nubile girls is projected onto gay men: that is the idea that showering with men is the same as showering for straight men would be with sexy females.
Of course practically it's far from the same.
Apart from the self-consciousness and fear of exposure or humiliation, it's a matter of do or die.

Maybe gays should be privileged for all the years of bullying and discrimination.
Fine, then give us our own baths and showers.
Yes, with bubbles, champagne, massages and manicures.
Then we'll have special privileges!

We're tired of cheap deodorant and smelly socks.
We want air-con too!

Oh, but then the homophobes will scream blue murder.
They'll shout about how the queers have been given their own locker room, and now it's prettier than theirs!

reply to post by andy06shake


1)So in your mind, is there something more sexual about a locker room than a bathroom? Im trying to figure out where the difference lies.

2)So then how would you possibly, ever enforce this? The only way you can guarantee that gay teachers are not in a same-sex locker room is to force them to be public with their sexuality.

Perhaps they should wear some sort of patch or tattoo, identifying them as gay

reply to post by captaintyinknots


What is it that you think i am trying to enforce exactly??? I merely offered my opinion on the matter.

That patch idea that you are attempting to bait me with didn't work out to well for the poor Jews now did it? But you know that!

The whole issue seems to be an Anglo-US hang-up. I went to middle and high school in Denmark, where showers (in an open area) are mandatory after swimming and PE, and:
1. there were 3 or 4 openly gay students (out of 30 in the class) and there was never any issue at all about showering together with them.
2. Schools almost always use public pools and sports facilities, and there is invariably a female attendant seated (or mopping up) next to the shower area. The towels provided are piled on her desk, so she sees every boy's prick and bare butt, dozens of them a day.
Again, nobody has any issue with this at all.
I don't know and don't care if either the female attendant or the gay male students get a thrill from seeing other guys' naked bodies. If they do, then so what? Nobody was ever harmed in any way.
From a European point of view, the Anglo-American concerns about being seen naked look awfully like mass paranoia.

reply to post by Swing80s


I am a middle school P.E. teacher. We have 3 male P.E. teachers and 3 lesbian female teachers at my school in a Wisconsin suburb. My answer to your question, absolutely not. We, as P.E. teachers, are EXPECTED to supervise locker rooms before and after each class. Let me explain why. If a fight is going to break out anywhere in the school, it is probably going to be in the locker room. If bullying is going to take place in a school, it often happens in the locker room. Also, kids need help in the locker rooms OFTEN. They don't remember their combinations, for example, or the kid from the last class left his/her lock on the wrong locker....things of that nature. If we, as P.E. teachers, are not in the locker rooms before and after each class, it is grounds for disciplinary action against us. I cannot believe that lesbian P.E. teachers are allowed to be in there with these 12-14y.o. girls! ESPECIALLY, as in my case, when the building administrators KNOW that they are in fact lesbians. It is simply insane. My other colleagues share this view. One has to pose the question "Would I want my own daughter changing in front of a lesbian P.E. teacher?" I think it is fair to assume that most would say NO WAY!

reply to post by halfoldman


I am a middle school P.E. teacher. We have 3 male P.E. teachers and 3 lesbian female teachers at my school in a Wisconsin suburb. My answer to your question, absolutely not. We, as P.E. teachers, are EXPECTED to supervise locker rooms before and after each class. Let me explain why. If a fight is going to break out anywhere in the school, it is probably going to be in the locker room. If bullying is going to take place in a school, it often happens in the locker room. Also, kids need help in the locker rooms OFTEN. They don't remember their combinations, for example, or the kid from the last class left his/her lock on the wrong locker....things of that nature. If we, as P.E. teachers, are not in the locker rooms before and after each class, it is grounds for disciplinary action against us. I cannot believe that lesbian P.E. teachers are allowed to be in there with these 12-14y.o. girls! ESPECIALLY, as in my case, when the building administrators KNOW that they are in fact lesbians. It is simply insane. My other colleagues share this view. One has to pose the question "Would I want my own daughter changing in front of a lesbian P.E. teacher?" I think it is fair to assume that most would say NO WAY!

reply to post by Swing80s

I would assume you'd first have to know they were GLB. And without a violation of privacy to demand they announce their preference either way, how would you know? I dont think you could do much.

Religions, races, languages, sexual preferences...none of them preclude anyone in getting and keeping a teaching position. If they were not discriminated against in getting the position...I'd dont see how you'd enforce rules on them in the average daily performance of their job.

They dont have to divulge personal info, therefore we cant assume and require them to.
And there's something right there. Do you let in a Bi teacher because they are only 1/2?
Can you let a female Bi teacher into a boys locker room, and a male Bi teacher into a female locker room?

Its all because you just cant discriminate when sexual preference is not part of nor divulged on a teachers job application. Whether it should be or not...well, thats for another thread...

reply to post by WellThatsThat

Thanks for replying to my post.

I suppose there might be different things going on in different schools and places.
If PT teachers make kids uncomfortable, then something should definitely be done.

On the other hand, I also don't feel it is fair to say a PT teacher for girls can't be a lesbian.
If lesbians can be mums, then why not PT teachers?

I recall doing Karate as a kid, and at least 20 percent of the women were lesbians.
And there was only one male and one female locker room.
Homosexuality wasn't much discussed back then, but people weren't stupid.

Yet, parents used to bring their daughters for classes, because these women were 100 percent focused and tough as nails.
They weren't there for nonsense or ulterior motives, although I suppose they also socialized as a clique outside the club.
Ultimately they were always very professional, and they really loved the sport.

However, if I think back to school and the male PT teacher we had, he came straight from the army, and I think they made those people a bit crazy.
He was very much the ladies' man, but if I think back on some of the things he did to us (and corporal punishment was not only allowed, but tradition in SA schools back then), then I find it extremely disturbing.
What he did was child abuse, and it was sadistic.

So I cannot say.
There are some very good gay and lesbian teachers who are very focused, and then there are some "straight" teachers who are disturbed, sadistic and repressed, at least by my experience.