Is the Virgin Mary the same as the Holy Ghost?

reply to post by adjensen


Infants cannot believe or profess belief.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by adjensen

 

Infants cannot believe or profess belief.

No, but they can be baptized into the community of believers and take responsibility for their profession of belief at Confirmation, which is what all Christians prior to the 16th Century did, and all non-Anabaptist (and offshoots) have done since the 16th Century.

Unless one wants to say that only a minuscule number of believers in the past 2,000 years were saved and God's will was thwarted within a generation or two of Christ's death, the inevitable conclusion is that it doesn't matter -- faith and God's grace is what does.

(ETA: Actually, that's not entirely correct, in that during the very early church, some held off on their baptism for as long as they could, not because of any claim that they needed to be "old" to make an informed decision, but in the belief that they could live a life of sin without repentance and allow a "death bed baptism" to save them, also an obvious perversion of the practice.)

Baptising infants is baptising unbelievers. Babies cannot profess belief. And I never implied baptism was necessary for salvation, that's certainly not true. Baptism doesn't save a person, however all saved people should be compelled to baptism.

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by adjensen

 

Well they call her the "queen of heaven" so they put her far above the saints and really.....on par with Jesus himself.

Roman Catholicism assigns attributes and titles to their mary that are reserved solely for God.

For instance, the call their mary the "dispenser of all graces", which is subverting God as the sole dispenser of Grace.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Your theology is yet another one that comes down to salvation by works, and works alone.

"Got baptized wrong? You're not a Christian and you aren't saved."

That belief was invalid when the Anabaptists preached it in the 16th Century and it's no less so today.

I take exception to that. What was wrong with the Anabaptists and their belief that baptism was only for believers? That's the Biblical prerequisite.. belief.

The issue with the Anabaptists wasn't over infant vs. adult believer baptism.

It was over their demand that those who joined an anabaptist church be rebaptized, when Scripture and the Church believes and teaches that there is "one baptism".

The pre-fix, "ana", means, "again", as in to baptize again those who had already been baptized.

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by adjensen

 

Well they call her the "queen of heaven" so they put her far above the saints and really.....on par with Jesus himself.

Roman Catholicism assigns attributes and titles to their mary that are reserved solely for God.

For instance, the call their mary the "dispenser of all graces", which is subverting God as the sole dispenser of Grace.

Maybe you mean subverting the sacred masculine? Poor guy, having to share with the sacred feminine!

The Greatness of the Power of Mary to defend those who invoke her when tempted by the Devil.

Not only is the most Blessed Virgin Queen of heaven and of all saints, but she is also Queen of hell and of all evil spirits; for she overcame them valiantly by her virtues. From the very beginning God foretold the victory and empire that our Queen would one day obtain over the serpent, when he announced that a woman should come into the world to conquer him: I will put enmities between thee and the woman—she shall crush thy head

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by adjensen

 

Well they call her the "queen of heaven" so they put her far above the saints and really.....on par with Jesus himself.

Roman Catholicism assigns attributes and titles to their mary that are reserved solely for God.

For instance, the call their mary the "dispenser of all graces", which is subverting God as the sole dispenser of Grace.

Maybe you mean subverting the sacred masculine? Poor guy, having to share with the sacred feminine!

Do you know why God is referred to with masculine nouns?

I'll give you a clue, it's not because God has gender.

The Bible teaches that God does not have gender.

Do you know why God is referred to with masculine nouns?

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


I know exactly what Anabaptist means. They taught and practiced a believer's baptism.. which I certainly agree with.

When I read the OP I was reminded of something from old, a kind of cryptic poem that goes something like this

The Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost
God, Jesus, and........

The last words were the secret not to be revealed but I remember that it goes

The Father, The Son, The Holy Ghost
God, Jesus, The Holy Bride

So going on from there it would make a case for Mary Magdalene, if I have spelt the name right.

reply to post by Shema


The bride of Christ is the church, the body of believers.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Shema

 

The bride of Christ is the church, the body of believers.

I honestly don't know either way but if that is so why make a mystery of it?

Originally posted by imawlinn
Ya, Imaginary.

Yes, I think it is symbolic of the holy spirit the shekinah, the divine feminine.

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp
Do you know why God is referred to with masculine nouns?

Because the Israelites were a patriarchal society.

Mary is the Theotokos, the God Bearer. Not the Holy Spirit. She is blessed among all women and she herself prophesied:

"...henceforth all generations shall call me blessed."

There are some Latins that step outside of the consensus of the early church Fathers and think she was born without sin, Immaculate Conception, and that she is a Redemtrix, a co-redemptor with Christ. This is just as scandalous as saying that she is the Holy Spirit

Originally posted by Shema

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Shema

 

The bride of Christ is the church, the body of believers.

I honestly don't know either way but if that is so why make a mystery of it?

It's no mystery, that's precisely what the Scripture says.

Originally posted by monkcaw
Mary is the Theotokos, the God Bearer. Not the Holy Spirit. She is blessed among all women and she herself prophesied:

"...henceforth all generations shall call me blessed."

There are some Latins that step outside of the consensus of the early church Fathers and think she was born without sin, Immaculate Conception

There are a number of theological arguments behind this, none of which I'm a gigantic fan of, but as I told someone in a conversation about it, it's kind of irrelevant (they, of course, were appalled that I'd say that, lol,) given that Mary herself is quoted as saying that she needed Christ's salvation.

and that she is a Redemtrix, a co-redemptor with Christ.

In over thirty years of hanging out with Catholics, I've never heard anyone claim that.

Originally posted by GLontra
The way the Catholics worship the Virgin Mary

Catholics don't worship the Virgin Mary.
Read here .. what Catholics believe about Mary
Stop reading Jack Chick tracts.

Is the Virgin Mary the same as the Holy Ghost?

Scripture is very clear that Mary and The Holy Ghost are two different entities.
Mary is creation. The Holy Ghost is God.

What you think?

I think this is just a Catholic bashing thread by someone who hasn't got a clue as to what the Catholic religion is.

Originally posted by GLontra
The way most Catholics refer to the Virgin Mary clearly indicate that they worship her.

Absurd.

Many Catholics give more importance to the Virgin Mary than they give to Jesus.

Absurd.

Originally posted by BlueMule
Yeah, only a Goddess can be the mother of a God.

Not at all. Every human mother participates in the physical creation of their child but doesn't generate the soul or spirit. Therefore, saying that Mary is the Mother of God in no way makes her the creator of God.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Praying to Mary and the saints certainly is idolatry.

Then according to you, asking others to pray to God for you means that you are commiting idolatry. That's pretty darn silly, isn't it?

Have you ever even read what is said by Catholics? 'hail mary' - the greeting the angel gabriel used with Mary. 'the Lord is with you' - scriptural and true. 'blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus' - all scriptural and true. 'Holy Mary, Mother of God' - true, she's the mother of Jesus who is God. 'pray for us sinners' ... geeee .. so it's a crime to ask others to pray for us?? Absurd.

Mary could not be called a mother of God even if she was Jesus's mother.

Jesus is God. Mary is His mother. Therefore, she is the mother of God.
It's very simple. It doesn't mean she generated his soul or spirit, it means
she's His mother .. she helped in the creation and care of his body on
earth and helped raise him like any other mother.

Catholics have to make believe Jesus is God .

Newsflash .. nearly every Christian on the planet understands that Jesus is God.
Jesus Himself said that He came down from heaven.
Jesus Himself claimed the title 'I AM'.
Jesus said He was God and backed it up with miracles.

Originally posted by GLontra
I'm specially interested in the way the Catholic Church INDUCES people to worship "Our Lady",

That's bunk. - Read this and learn
There ya' go .. I just gave you a link to the OFFICIAL teaching of the Catholic Church.
Read it and learn the truth of what the Catholic Church teaches.
That way you won't be pumping out all these false claims ...

Obviously, the idea of "Our Lady" as being part of the "Holy Trinity", being the same as the Holy Ghost, is not part of the OFFICIAL doctrine of the Catholic Church. But IN PRACTICE, that's what happens.

PROVE IT.

Show exactly where large numbers of Mexican Catholics refer to Mary as 'the Holy Ghost'. :shk: Good luck with that. The Mexican Catholics understand their faith a heck of a lot better than you do. They KNOW BETTER than to think that The Holy Ghost is somehow magically Mary.