Evil or Satan

reply to post by logical7


That, my friend, is brilliant.
Thank you for clarifying for me.....

I have acknoweldged always here on ATS that I do not understand Islam, neither their moderate or their zealous.......


You have absolutely clarified your stand. Thanks.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Whatever philosophy they have is already in islam.

And it's also in some branches of Christianity. And those philosophies existed before either Jesus of Nazareth OR Mohammed.

How do you explain "jihad", then? The "murdering" of those who have embraced The Baha'i faith?, which has its own Scripture, too, you know.....

how do you know their "prophet" wasn't more correct than "Mohammed"? Or that Socrates wasn't more correct than Jesus? If I go by your apparent method, I have to choose ONE PROPHET and dismiss anything that disagrees that THAT ONE PROPHET IS THE RIGHT, ONLY, AND LAST ONE. And I simply don't believe that is true.

I'd say all prophets are from God. And comparing prophets with philosophers is like comparing apples with pears.
Prophets speak out of God, so to speak. Philosophy lacks something.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

That, my friend, is brilliant.
Thank you for clarifying for me.....

I have acknoweldged always here on ATS that I do not understand Islam, neither their moderate or their zealous.......

You have absolutely clarified your stand. Thanks.

thanks for having patience and an open mind, i appreciate that.
I am surprised that you dint knew the islamic stand. It also gave me an idea of a thread, "Tell me what you know about Islam."
here the topic is evil and satan, so i'l ask you, you are open to the idea of aliens/ET etc right?
So do you think that as we humans and animals even plants got conciousness when we are made of tangible matter/molecules/atoms, so can there be a chance that energy could also get conciousness and they would be living beings too?
Ulimately matter is just cooled down energy.Tell me what you know about Islam

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by wildtimes

 

.
And about ba'hai faith, they too are nutcase to be very frank.

How so?

They cant agree with Qur'an and then claim bahaulla as prophet!!

How does that differ from agreeing with the Qu'ran and then claiming Jesus as the Messiah? When Jesus' teachings contradict the Qu'ran?

Seal of prophet/last prophet/last messenger is Muhammad pbuh. They really twist it to claim bahaulla as prophet.

How does that differ from the Bible saying that John was the last prophet and then Muhammad twisting it to make himself the last prophet?

Does that make Islam a nutcase religion too?

As far as I can tell, the Ba'hai faith hasn't done anything that Islam didn't already do.

reply to post by Deetermined


bahai's started a new religion by building on Qur'an and mixing some new things, but if you think islam did the same with Bible then obviously bahais are enemies of your enemies

How does that differ from agreeing
with the Qu'ran and then claiming
Jesus as the Messiah? When Jesus'
teachings contradict the Qu'ran?

Qur'an doesnt contradicts teachings of Jesus pbuh pre-crucifixtion. It does however contradicts the later interpretations and addition of more theology once he was gone.

How does that differ from the Bible
saying that John was the last prophet
and then Muhammad twisting it to
make himself the last prophet?
Does that make Islam a nutcase
religion too?

what part of Bible says John pbuh as last prophet? Jesus pbuh is mentioned as prophet in bible, the diciples dint think of him as god but a prophet like moses pbuh. What message did Jesus pbuh told the apostles to spread? That he is saviour or to Worship God alone and do good, earn good deeds, be forgiving, be patient and loving?
John pbuh has to be last prophet in Bible as Jesus pbuh was made god and thats the christianity we know now. Islam doesnt make humans to god, it just restored the prophethood of Jesus pbuh.

Originally posted by logical7

bahai's started a new religion by building on Qur'an and mixing some new things, but if you think islam did the same with Bible then obviously bahais are enemies of your enemies

That's exactly my point. Muhammad started his new religion by building on the Bible and mixing some new things in.

Qur'an doesnt contradicts teachings of Jesus pbuh pre-crucifixtion. It does however contradicts the later interpretations and addition of more theology once he was gone.

No, Jesus told his disciples that he would be crucified and why he would be crucified.

The Qu'ran totally contradicted what Jesus told his own disciples.

Jesus pbuh is mentioned as prophet in bible, the diciples dint think of him as god but a prophet like moses pbuh.

Read all of the books written in the New Testament by John. They absolutely point to the fact that John thought and taught that Jesus was God.

What message did Jesus pbuh told the apostles to spread? That he is saviour or to Worship God alone and do good, earn good deeds, be forgiving, be patient and loving?

Jesus told his disciples to spread the story of his resurrection, which led to the Kingdom of God. Without the resurrection, there was no need to preach the gospel of the kingdom. They went hand in hand. Without one, you didn't have the other. Jesus paved the way for humans to enter the kingdom and without his death, there would not have been any human souls entering it. This is why the disciples went around baptizing people. It represented the death and resurrection of Christ.

Mark 16:15-16

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

reply to post by Deetermined

That's exactly my point. Muhammad started his new religion by building on the Bible and mixing some new things in.

i know your point. I dont agree. We can both keep our own views.

No, Jesus told his disciples that he
would be crucified and why he would
be crucified.
The Qu'ran totally contradicted what
Jesus told his own disciples.

did Jesus ever call himself "son of God"? Or it was always "son of man"?

This is why the
disciples went around baptizing people.

they did it even before crucifixtion.

Read all of the books written in the
New Testament by John. They
absolutely point to the fact that John
thought and taught that Jesus was
God.

which John? The prophet or the apostle? Are the gospels by John written by him? When i read it, i see two styles of writing. Try reading it with an eye for this.

Mark 16:15-16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into
all the world, and preach the gospel to
every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized
shall be saved; but he that believeth
not shall be damned.

yes the gospel he preached, not a written one compiled later but the things he spoke himself. I read the red letter bible couldnt agree enough with the red parts. I believe in him, his gospel and the God he spoke about, am i not baptized?

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by Deetermined

 

did Jesus ever call himself "son of God"? Or it was always "son of man"?

Bible say people would call him the son of God, but they call me names sometimes too which are not true. He said himself He was the son of man.

reply to post by logical7

did Jesus ever call himself "son of God"? Or it was always "son of man"?

He referred to himself as both, as He was both divine and human.

John 10:36-38

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

or was it he was called son of man and he was/is the son of God? He was perfect as the Father. Must have been a son of God, this son of man.

reply to post by logical7

they did it even before crucifixtion.

Yes, before Christ's death, John was using baptism as a repentance from sins.

After Christ's death, he came back to his disciples with more explicit instructions.

Matthew 28:16-20

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

reply to post by logical7

here the topic is evil and satan, so i'l ask you, you are open to the idea of aliens/ET etc right?

Yes.

So do you think that as we humans and animals even plants got conciousness when we are made of tangible matter/molecules/atoms, so can there be a chance that energy could also get conciousness and they would be living beings too?

Dont quite get the question here....
I think "consciousness" in the body and while living here on Earth is a different sort of "consciousness" from our ethereal and immortal "soul consciousness" -
Animals certainly have "consiousness", and I don't dismiss the idea that plants have an "essence of life". Plants are known to respond to their environments, like music and attention, grooming and nurturing...

Ultimately matter is just cooled down energy

Yes,
and yes, energy without "matter" can have consciousness as well, I believe.

Spiritual and material are two different dimensions but the spiritual can manifest in the material world.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

did Jesus ever call himself "son of God"? Or it was always "son of man"?

He referred to himself as both, as He was both divine and human.

John 10:36-38

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are
gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the
scripture cannot be broken.

so the previous prophets were called gods in OT? Right?
So Jesus pbuh is sort of saying "Come on! you called others before me gods and you are saying that its blasphemy if i am called son of God? Why dont you drop it and accept that i am send by God based on things i do and just listen to me!"

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

here the topic is evil and satan, so i'l ask you, you are open to the idea of aliens/ET etc right?

Yes.

So do you think that as we humans and animals even plants got conciousness when we are made of tangible matter/molecules/atoms, so can there be a chance that energy could also get conciousness and they would be living beings too?

Dont quite get the question here....
I think "consciousness" in the body and while living here on Earth is a different sort of "consciousness" from our ethereal and immortal "soul consciousness" -
Animals certainly have "consiousness", and I don't dismiss the idea that plants have an "essence of life". Plants are known to respond to their environments, like music and attention, grooming and nurturing...

Ultimately matter is just cooled down energy

Yes,
and yes, energy without "matter" can have consciousness as well, I believe.

so then its possible for a creation like djinns to exist? We are matter with soul, djinns are energy with soul.
They are just out of our perception by our 5 senses say like radio waves. But our brain does work with waves(EEG) and subjecting the brain to specific waves does create unexplained feelings even hallucinations. So an energy with conciousness can vibrate at frequencies that influence the brain and people call it possession. The same energy can shift to lower frequencies in the visible light spectrum and appear in visible forms.

reply to post by logical7

so the previous prophets were called gods in OT? Right?
So Jesus pbuh is sort of saying "Come on! you called others before me gods and you are saying that its blasphemy if i am called son of God? Why dont you drop it and accept that i am send by God based on things i do and just listen to me!"

Something like that. Jesus was speaking to whoever was responsible for "judging" people, most likely the appointed judges.

Jesus was quoting the Old Testament here again.

Psalm 82:1-8

1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

so the previous prophets were called gods in OT? Right?
So Jesus pbuh is sort of saying "Come on! you called others before me gods and you are saying that its blasphemy if i am called son of God? Why dont you drop it and accept that i am send by God based on things i do and just listen to me!"

Something like that. Jesus was speaking to whoever was responsible for "judging" people, most likely the appointed judges.

Jesus was quoting the Old Testament here again.

Psalm 82:1-8

1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

let me rephrase. The jews wanted to frame Jesus pbuh in blasphemy charges. Jesus pbuh was just saying that in OT the word 'god'(elohim=mighty/judge also) is used for people too. So if calling a person god in OT is not blasphemy then how son of God annoys them so much. That means they just want an excuse. They dont want to accept him as Christ as that will mean that they will have to change their ways and ego doesnt allow that.