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Originally posted by Advantage
Some may advocate "overthrowing" the government, but most Americans simply demand a return to our constitution and to our origins. I dont know in what reality that is seen as a call to overthrow the government.. unless you/they are unfamiliar with our actual domestic and foreign issues. I feel that our government has been overthrown, most of us simpy want a return to what our government was before this coup, and this link you posted should speak to them more than to we the people. If you wish to post law, post it to those who broke federal law and who are proposing to pick and choose which federal law they wish to uphold or disregard.edit on 11-1-2013 by Advantage because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Helious
Greetings ATS,
Consider this, if those that would take up arms should legislation that is unconstitutional and illegal be put in place and your plan is to take up arms anyway, then, at that point you are all in anyway and would you not try one last thing to avoid bloodshed, most probably your own to achieve the goal of restoring our liberty? Those that can not live with unjust and illegal law, should before violence seek out states that are strongholds for the constitution en mass. If we all do this, we can effect change through peacfull non compliance with federal law while being protected by the state, and each other.
Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by HenryNorris
The Federal Gov. debt is the states debt. Secession would not keep creditors away...
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
Originally posted by dave_welch
As to what I will or would do? I don't know. I do believe, however, that if it comes to violence, the people should not make the first move against the Government. Drawing first blood would make it easier to paint those that did as "terrorists" or "extremists". The flaw in that lies in whether or not the government would make a blatant move against the people. If they did, then those who would be left defending their rights would be painted in a better light for the rest of the world. However, if Patriots were to strike first, it would be very easy to paint them in a malicious light and convince the rest of the world that the government is right in eliminating them.
So, having said that, I hope we can find a peaceful way to solve the problem, as I do not want to fight a war at home. I pray that we all try any and all non-violent means, and only consider the possibility of an all out revolution after all peaceful ways have been exhausted.
However, If one was to see DHS (or any other alphabet agency) agents rousting their neighbors out in the middle of the night and carting them off for owning firearms or whatever, one would be very hard pressed not to act, if one was a supporter of our rights as stated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Originally posted by Helious
If we all do this, we can effect change through peaceful non compliance with federal law while being protected by the state, and each other.
The federal government will not seek to enforce illegal laws in states that have outlawed such federal legislation based on blatant non compliance of the constitution and are willing to pledge there law enforcement officers, sheriffs and volunteers of the community to arrest and federal employees trying to do so.
Originally posted by Observor
Why would you care how the ousiders would perceive a violent revolution? They will have to deal with the victors whoever they may be. Since no outside power or the combination of them has the capability to influence outcome by taking sides, it is very likely they will wait for a decisive outcome, instead of condemning one side.
Because sympathy for the freedom fighters could bring support from foreign militaries.
But, of course! But the key is when does someone determine all peaceful options have been exhausted.
Therein lies the problem, and that's what we should be trying to figure out.
You can be sure they would come during broad day light to arrest those who have fallen foul of the gun regulation laws. Would you still come to the rescue of the neighbour?
Time of day is irrelevant really, in fact, in broad daylight more people will see it, possibly calling those people to act. I mean it's all hypothetical really, but that's my opinion.
I hope I didn't miss any of your responses, as I was trying to delete all of my stuff to make it a shorter read.
Originally posted by dave_welch
Because sympathy for the freedom fighters could bring support from foreign militaries.
Time of day is irrelevant really, in fact, in broad daylight more people will see it, possibly calling those people to act. I mean it's all hypothetical really, but that's my opinion.
Originally posted by Observor
Originally posted by dave_welch
Because sympathy for the freedom fighters could bring support from foreign militaries.
Exactly how many countries militarily supported Iraqis when the US invaded it? It will be the same number that will support the "freedom fighters" in a US civil war.
Time of day is irrelevant really, in fact, in broad daylight more people will see it, possibly calling those people to act. I mean it's all hypothetical really, but that's my opinion.
The US government is not afraid of implementing its laws, whether you agree with them or not. So they don't have to sneak in the middle of the night to do it. I don't think they care how many see it.