CRB errors mean thousands wrongly branded as criminals

reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon


I think many people are already doing that here and in the USA but it isn't like we can find just one cause and solve it, meanwhile we will continue to check the vulnerable are safe from people who want to take advantage.
A question for you....Your child gets sick and goes to hospital for a week, do you want people with a past history of abusing children looking after them? or do you want the hospital to check that their staff have not abused kids in the past?

Originally posted by boymonkey74
I quote...


And yet, your CCTV is still there.


Lets turn it around swap CCTV for guns, now who is the most afraid?

edit on 5-1-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

People fear guns, hence the debates. Guns empower the individual, cameras empower despots.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon

So because I disagree with you that we don’t need CRB check to keep paedophiles out of schools you think it’s fair to assume that I am a grown man who will always live in fear and I will always be a victim who needs to be protected.

Do you want state regulations to keep people safe? If yes, then you live in fear.

Yet you are so fearful of your countries education system that you’re going to force your daughter into being home-schooled to keep her isolated form the rest of society.

Fearful? No, I was motivated by the statistics showing that homeschooled children outperformed non-homeschooled children.

I think you are the one living in fear.

If I were living in fear, I would want the state to protect every aspect of my life.

You’re really are just babbling on like a “baby”, you don’t know what you are talking about and I think this statement proves that.

Grown ups can take care of themselves and don't need the state to do it for them.

People should not be screened by the state, or anyone else. If you commit a crime and are punished for it, carrying a record to wear as a scarlet letter does not "rehabilitate" a person. It keeps a stigma attached to them for the rest of their lives, making finding work difficult. I have seen it happen to many felons.

They should be allowed to start with a clean slate.

Question for you then

Does that apply to paedophiles, should we let them go work in a school after serving 10 year for raping minors, because that is what your logic dictates.

edit on 5-1-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

There are a number of things that you could do. Try problem solving outside of state regulations. Use your imagination.

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
If you commit a crime and are punished for it, carrying a record to wear as a scarlet letter does not "rehabilitate" a person. It keeps a stigma attached to them for the rest of their lives, making finding work difficult. I have seen it happen to many felons.

They should be allowed to start with a clean slate.

We have something called the 'Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974' in the UK which legally allows former criminals to omit past offences in job applications in a sliding tariff of time depending on the conviction - aside from jobs working with vulnerable people.
The US does not have such a system, you have to declare everything for the rest of your life, now I wonder which country is more advanced in the treatment of former offenders?

You are correct, your country is.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon

 

I think many people are already doing that here and in the USA but it isn't like we can find just one cause and solve it, meanwhile we will continue to check the vulnerable are safe from people who want to take advantage.
A question for you....Your child gets sick and goes to hospital for a week, do you want people with a past history of abusing children looking after them? or do you want the hospital to check that their staff have not abused kids in the past?

I don't know, what if that person sincerely changed and wanted to make a difference?

reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon


Anyone can say they have changed but will you risk it with your child?

Watch this

reply to post by boymonkey74


I'll watch the video, but I have to go to the store to get my girlfriend a can of pop before she murders me.

reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon


Pop I thought a can of pop was a British thing Good to know pop is multinational

Still curious about this though, perhaps you missed it on page 4:

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
Get rid of paedophilia by finding out its root cause. Whether the cause is sociological, psychological, biological, or a mix is up to research to determine.

Who will carry out this research? Backroom homeschoolers or government sanctioned educational establishments?

...apologies if I appear as a dog with a bone on this, but you claim to reject anything provided by government or perceived 'higher authority' as something only the fearful cling to yet suggest that research needs to be carried out regarding paedophilia. Who will provide this research if not the same government sanctioned educational establishments?

Is there a research arm to the private homeschooling network I am as yet unaware of?

reply to post by grainofsand

Who will carry out this research? Backroom homeschoolers or government sanctioned educational establishments?

Both. Let the state keep their researchers, but there should also be private scientists working on the same projects. If an observation is going to be gleaned from objective reality, then both groups should reach the same conclusions, shouldn't they?

...apologies if I appear as a dog with a bone on this, but you claim to reject anything provided by government or perceived 'higher authority' as something only the fearful cling to yet suggest that research needs to be carried out regarding paedophilia. Who will provide this research if not the same government sanctioned educational establishments?

I am rejecting state regulations that have been imposed for the "safety of the people." Many of those regulations are there as a "benefit" to us, when in reality the responsibility is ours. But we shirk our responsibility and expect someone else to take care of us. Because of this, we lose our independence and become dependents. Both of our countries used to be beacons of hope in a world plagued by dictators, but look at us now. We can't sneeze without someone trying to ban viruses.

Is there a research arm to the private homeschooling network I am as yet unaware of?

Yes, we are legion.

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by grainofsand

 

...apologies if I appear as a dog with a bone on this, but you claim to reject anything provided by government or perceived 'higher authority' as something only the fearful cling to yet suggest that research needs to be carried out regarding paedophilia. Who will provide this research if not the same government sanctioned educational establishments?

I am rejecting state regulations that have been imposed for the "safety of the people." Many of those regulations are there as a "benefit" to us, when in reality the responsibility is ours. But we shirk our responsibility and expect someone else to take care of us. Because of this, we lose our independence and become dependents.

So you would be happy to trust the results of non-governmental homeschooler networks research on sex offenders?

Is there a research arm to the private homeschooling network I am as yet unaware of?

Yes, we are legion.

I am interested in learning more about this 'legion' you speak of and the resources they have to carry out such important research regarding rehabilitation of sex offenders.

reply to post by grainofsand

So you would be happy to trust the results of non-governmental homeschooler networks research on sex offenders?

Yes, why wouldn't I be? And that goes for any private research. If their research results are correct then their data should be verifiable.

I am interested in learning more about this 'legion' you speak of and the resources they have to carry out such important research regarding rehabilitation of sex offenders.

I was being facetious.

People live in some profound fear of sex offenders. Empower your children, they don't have to be victims.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon

 

Pop

I thought a can of pop was a British thing

Good to know pop is multinational

"Pop" came from the US to the UK in the 1940s. It is short for soda-pop which you could buy from the soda-jerk, the chemist or in bottles from "stores".

So you would be happy to trust the results of non-governmental homeschooler networks research on sex offenders?

Yes, why wouldn't I be? And that goes for any private research. If their research results are correct then their data should be verifiable.

Equally any govenment sanctioned educational establishments research should be verifiable.
You have though shown yourself to be willing to accept the research of a 'higher authority' to put your trust into, namely the home schooler network. Why is this network of individuals anymore trustworthy than an organisation funded by the state? Are there no hidden agendas in the homeschooling camp? Can you prove that or is it just your belief?

I am interested in learning more about this 'legion' you speak of and the resources they have to carry out such important research regarding rehabilitation of sex offenders.

I was being facetious.

People live in some profound fear of sex offenders. Empower your children, they don't have to be victims.

I agree. My son is empowered, and enjoys the vastly superior resources of state education while retaining the benefit of an hour or so each evening discussing his teachings while I have the opportunity to present my own perspective on what he has been taught. A win win situation.

reply to post by grainofsand

Equally any govenment sanctioned educational establishments research should be verifiable.

Yes, I already stated the same thing.

Let the state keep their researchers, but there should also be private scientists working on the same projects. If an observation is going to be gleaned from objective reality, then both groups should reach the same conclusions, shouldn't they?

You have though shown yourself to be willing to accept the research of a 'higher authority' to put your trust into, namely the home schooler network. Why is this network of individuals anymore trustworthy than an organisation funded by the state? Are there no hidden agendas in the homeschooling camp? Can you prove that or is it just your belief?

Why wouldn't there be hidden agendas? Of course there would be, but as I said, if something is gleaned from objective reality then the data should stand up to scrutiny. If someone is driven by a hidden agenda, chances are their research is going to be flawed; whether they are private or work for the state.

I simply feel their should be a balance between private and state researchers. That way, hidden agendas are more likely to come to light on both sides.

I mentioned homeschooling my daughter because someone asked me if I would send my kids to a school whose faculty could be paedophiles. The notion is irrelevant to me, as my daughter won't be attending public schools. I don't even believe we should have state ran, public schools to begin with.

I agree. My son is empowered, and enjoys the vastly superior resources of state education

Vastly superior resources? That is absurd. What resources could the state possess that is "vastly superior?"

while retaining the benefit of an hour or so each evening discussing his teachings while I have the opportunity to present my own perspective on what he has been taught. A win win situation.

I don't want to give my daughter my "perspective." I don't want to give my daughter the state's "perspective" either. That is not a winning situation.

Take social studies for example. She could read a textbook rife with someone's opinions of what they believe the founding fathers meant. Or she could listen to be babble about my opinion. In either case she loses the ability to make up her own mind.

It would be far superior to have her read for herself the literature/history that lead to the revolutionary war and the drafting of the federal constitution. All of the works from John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Thomas Pain, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin...etc

Given the proper tools a child can formulate their own opinions. Public schools do not want this.

reply to post by Maxmars


this is just unbelievable...makes you wounder what other wrong info is out there being used, and we wont have a clue about it

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
Vastly superior resources? That is absurd. What resources could the state possess that is "vastly superior?"

Absurd eh?
I'd be interested to see the resources you rely on while trying to demonstrate verifiable experiments in chemical reactions between different substances in a home-schooled science lesson?

Given the proper tools a child can formulate their own opinions. Public schools do not want this.

Your assertion.
I'm happy to rely on the state education system teaching my son whatever is required to achieve internationally recognised qualifications while having the opportunity to provide my own perspective on the teachings.
If you home-school then the child has solely your own perspective on the teachings.

reply to post by grainofsand

Your assertion.
I'm happy to rely on the state education system teaching my son whatever is required to achieve internationally recognised qualifications while having the opportunity to provide my own perspective on the teachings.
If you home-school then the child has solely your own perspective on the teachings.

No, that is simply untrue. If I taught my daughter mathematics, how could I teach her "solely my perspective?"

Take the rules for fractions:

A/A = 1

A/B + C/D = A + C/B

A/B + C/D = A * D/B * D + C * B/D * B = AD + CB/BD

A/B - C/B = A - C/B

A/B - C/D = A * D/B * D - C * B/D * B = AD - CB/BD

A/B * C/D = AC/BD

A/B / C/D = A/B * D/C = AD/BC

Where, within those rules, did I interject my "perspective?" There is only one set of rules for fractions. In fact, our "perspectives" are irrelevant when it comes to the rules of math.

So why cry about the state teaching exactly the same thing if it is factually based??

...As our discussion has devolved into the rights or wrongs of home schooling I'm wondering if we should perhaps move to another thread specifically relating to this: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Apologies to the OP here but the current discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the CRB checks which some of our US friends appear to abhor and I did not wish to derail the original thread from that.

reply to post by grainofsand

Absurd eh?
I'd be interested to see the resources you rely on while trying to demonstrate verifiable experiments in chemical reactions between different substances in a home-schooled science lesson?

Only the state has professional chemistry equipment?