A Test in Precognition - Bicycle Deck of 52 Cards

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Nevertheless

 

However, your popularity or unpopularity is irrelevant in this discussion.

Not if you think I'm doing this to gain some type of cult following...

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about....?
It seems like you have gravely misunderstood something.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Nevertheless

 

Also, there is a big difference in High or Low, and Black or Red. In high or low, colors are not tested. The value of the card is. There are more differing values in the deck than colors are. So while I may be able to 'subconsciously' remember the colors, of which there is an even half and half, there is a card of each suit for each value. It would be a lot harder to keep track of how many two's, three's, king's, etc that have passed opposed to just a simple color

Wrong.
You still have only two choices. It's either high or low, black or red, it will go to the left pile or the right pile.
This is not rocket science.

reply to post by Nevertheless

High or Low is a classification of numbers....There are only two colors in the deck, black or red. That is a given statistic that it will either be one or the other. But the numbers of the deck are not a 'given'. I can't know how many 'High or Low' cards are left, anymore than I can know tomorrows winning lottery tickets. Your argument about my subconscious therefore keeping track is invalidated...Besides, if this is training my 'subconscious mind' and since my subconscious mind apparently has magical powers that I don't, what is the problem here?

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Nevertheless

 

High or Low is a classification of numbers....There are only two colors in the deck, black or red. That is a given statistic that it will either be one or the other. But the numbers of the deck are not a 'given'.

I don't know how to make this any clearer:

There are 26 red cards and 26 black cards
There are 24 high cards and 28 low cards (or which ever way you want to see it)

You will be making 52 red/black decisions
You will be making 52 high/low decisions

After each card you pull out, you will see if it's red or black
After each card you pull out, you will see if it's high or low

There is absolutely no difference.

I can't know how many 'High or Low' cards are left, anymore than I can know tomorrows winning lottery tickets.

You have the same feeling to how many "reds" you have selected as how many "highs" you have selected.
This has nothing to do with lottery tickets.

Your argument about my subconscious therefore keeping track is invalidated...

...

Besides, if this is training my 'subconscious mind' and since my subconscious mind apparently has magical powers that I don't, what is the problem here?

I really don't have more strength to make you understand the problem.
There is no magical power. Your "test" is broken when it comes to any precognitive effects. The odds are not 50/50, therefore you are able to become better at understanding statistics and succeeding better.
To me it is irrelevant whether you do it subconsciously or not. The same way as a soccer-player knows how to make amazing screws from a free-kick and place the ball where he likes it without really knowing how he does it.

You are counting cards at best.
I have no problem with that, as long as you call it for what it is.

Originally posted by Nevertheless

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Nevertheless

 

High or Low is a classification of numbers....There are only two colors in the deck, black or red. That is a given statistic that it will either be one or the other. But the numbers of the deck are not a 'given'.

I don't know how to make this any clearer:

There are 26 red cards and 26 black cards
There are 24 high cards and 28 low cards (or which ever way you want to see it)

You will be making 52 red/black decisions
You will be making 52 high/low decisions

After each card you pull out, you will see if it's red or black
After each card you pull out, you will see if it's high or low

There is absolutely no difference.

I can't know how many 'High or Low' cards are left, anymore than I can know tomorrows winning lottery tickets.

You have the same feeling to how many "reds" you have selected as how many "highs" you have selected.
This has nothing to do with lottery tickets.

Your argument about my subconscious therefore keeping track is invalidated...

...

Besides, if this is training my 'subconscious mind' and since my subconscious mind apparently has magical powers that I don't, what is the problem here?

I really don't have more strength to make you understand the problem.
There is no magical power. Your "test" is broken when it comes to any precognitive effects. The odds are not 50/50, therefore you are able to become better at understanding statistics and succeeding better.
To me it is irrelevant whether you do it subconsciously or not. The same way as a soccer-player knows how to make amazing screws from a free-kick and place the ball where he likes it without really knowing how he does it.

You are counting cards at best.
I have no problem with that, as long as you call it for what it is.

High and low is a classification of numerical value, not a given fact. Red or black is a given fact. There is a given fact of 26 red, and 26 black. However, that fact is not 'real' when it comes to the numerical value of the cards. You can't keep track of the numbers the same way as you can the colors, regardless of whether there are 28 low or 24 high.

Let's say this all is a product of my subconscious. It wouldn't necessarily be irrelevant, because technically I would be training the subconscious mind to do things that my conscious mind can't. Hence, my subconscious mind controls powers, abilities, etc, that my conscious does not.

If you feel I am counting cards, and that is all there is to it. So be it. But I respectfully disagree.

If you accept that there are a set number of 'high' or 'low' cards at the start of the game (28,24), and the first card is an Ace (low) then the ratio left in the pack is now 28,23 - the next card is high or low - it's a 5 (that's low) now the ratio is 28,22 - the next card is more likely to be high (only slightly) - it would not be difficult, for you to keep a tally of high or low, and find that near the end you only have 6 cards left, and say 5 are going to be high, and one low, and you get a winning streak on the last 6 cards.

try using several packs, completely intermingled, and spread over the floor, and then only pick up a small sample of those - say 30 - you won't know how many red or black you start with.

reply to post by CrastneyJPR


I only received one deck, but I will attempt to get another one to add to this. But these replies are based on the assumption that I am magically keeping track of how many of each category is left. I'm not...

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
High and low is a classification of numerical value, not a given fact.

What?
If you set the rule that the numbers 2,3,4,5,6,7 to be "low", "high", "black", "red" or "poop" does not matter.
Nor does it matter if these cards actually have the numbers 2,3,4,5,6,7, or if they are all red, black or a turd written on them. The fact remains that each card will be considered as "black" or "red" or "low" or "high".
You don't have to keep track of the content of the cards. Only if it's black/red or low/high.

And yes, it is a given fact. You set the rules before you play.
They could also be 6 different shades of red, and you classify them as "red". Or they could be the same shade of red and you classify them as "red". That's all you need to know.

I'm beginning to understand why some people believe in spirits, auras, ghosts and other things that do not require sound logical thinking. One simply lacks the tools to realize what is real and what is not.

Red or black is a given fact. There is a given fact of 26 red, and 26 black. However, that fact is not 'real' when it comes to the numerical value of the cards.

What on earth do you mean by "not 'real' "?
If a card has a '2' printed on it, then it has a '2' printed on it. It's a fact.
It is also a fact that there is a pre-determined number of cards with a '2', as there are reds (or diamonds).
It is also a fact that there is a pre-determined number of cards that are "low", as there are blacks (or clubs).

You can't keep track of the numbers the same way as you can the colors, regardless of whether there are 28 low or 24 high.

For the last time - you don't have to!
It makes no difference if you shout "red!" or "low!" before pulling out a card. There is no difference in the effort.

Try this:
Shout "left!" or "right!" instead. And choose that 'low' means left. or 'red' means left. And after evaluating the result, put the card in the left or right pile.
This is still the same thing, now you'll just be counting the number of "lefts" and "rights" instead of reds/blacks lows/highs.

Let's say this all is a product of my subconscious. It wouldn't necessarily be irrelevant, because technically I would be training the subconscious mind to do things that my conscious mind can't. Hence, my subconscious mind controls powers, abilities, etc, that my conscious does not.

Well, apparently you do lack some skills in logical thinking, and if you are able to make your mind count cards better "without thinking", then good for you.

But please, this is not your biggest problem at the moment.
Do as advised before and make sure the chances are 50/50 each time you pull a card and realize that you can't "beat" the game.

If you feel I am counting cards, and that is all there is to it. So be it. But I respectfully disagree.

You are. Or shuffling badly. As said, please perform proper 50/50 tests first and realize you cannot become better at it than random choice.

reply to post by Nevertheless


Regardless of whatever classification I base my exercises on; your whole argument rests on 'my subconscious' keeping track of things that it is not.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by CrastneyJPR

 

I only received one deck, but I will attempt to get another one to add to this. But these replies are based on the assumption that I am magically keeping track of how many of each category is left. I'm not...

You don't need another deck. I already told you how to do it.

Please follow these steps. You can do it immediately.

1. Shuffle the cards properly. Make sure you're not just "folding"
2. Take a piece of paper and a pen.
3. Decide on red or black
4. if red, write a + on the paper, otherwise -
5. Pick the first card, and put it in a new pile without looking
6. Go to step 3 if you have cards left.

7. Take the new pile and turn it over so that it's face up.
8. The first card is your first guess, mark with a "check" beside the guess if you got it right, otherwise a minus
9. Put that card aside
10. Go to step 7 as long as there are cards left.

11. Count the number of correct guesses.

12. Do this procedure 10 times.

Now you have a 50/50 chance on every single card.

EDIT: Please change "low"/"high" to "red"/"black". Because of the uneven number of low/highs.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Nevertheless

 

Regardless of whatever classification I base my exercises on; your whole argument rests on 'my subconscious' keeping track of things that it is not.

No, my whole argument rests on that your procedure is faulty.
I just gave you step-by-step instructions on how to do this properly to see whether or not you are able to "feel" things, rather than using the fact that it is possible to beat random choice by pure logic and statistical knowledge.
I don't care if it's your consciousness, subconsciousness or left elbow that does it.

reply to post by Nevertheless


I will try this and post my results ASAP; be patient.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Nevertheless

 

I will try this and post my results ASAP; be patient.

Please use red/black rather than high/low, in case you read my post before I changed it, due to the uneven number of low vs high cards.

reply to post by Nevertheless


I haven't completed it quite yet, because I have to go run an errand. My score so far using a shuffle, draw, shuffle method. 13-2, in favor of correct.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Nevertheless

 

Regardless of whatever classification I base my exercises on; your whole argument rests on 'my subconscious' keeping track of things that it is not.

Erm how the hell do you know. That's the whole point of it being subconscious ie your conscious has no knowledge of it.

If you want to eliminate bias use a computer program to generate random numbers say 0 and 1.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas

First Round : Red or Black. Correct : 46, Incorrect : 6
Second Round : High or Low. Correct : 33, Incorrect : 19
Third Round : High or Low. Correct : 30, Incorrect : 22
Fourth Round : High or Low. Correct : 37, Incorrect : 15

If that 46 / 6 is accurate, that's actually quite impressive, and I would think far beyond chance.

I have a hard time doing tests like these, because I have difficulty shutting down my rational mind. It starts saying stuff like "Okay, the last three were red, so this one is FAR more likely to be black...." etc

There are a couple good sites online that have precognition tests. One is the "psi arcade", hosted by the institute of noetic sciences. I forget the other good one I found....

I am thinking of a card now. I will post the card in 24 hours. Im gonna hold it in my hand. Can you remote view it?

reply to post by yorkshirelad


Only problem is a lot of programs that do zenner cards and the like online, only choose the random answer after you have answered it, hence would be impossible to really beat. I could say the card is a star, and they choose a circle.

reply to post by Speckle


Not that I remote viewed or anything like that, I just guessed 9 of spades. It's likely wrong though. Again just the first one that popped into my mind is all I go with.

reply to post by iwilliam

I have a hard time doing tests like these, because I have difficulty shutting down my rational mind. It starts saying stuff like "Okay, the last three were red, so this one is FAR more likely to be black...." etc

I have this same problem a lot and is often responsible for a portion of my incorrect.