Classic Facial Warning Signs in Today's Mass Murderers

reply to post by smyleegrl


There's fairly decent corroboration that these techniques can be effectively used on live subjects - the TV series "Lie to Me" was based on a real practitioner, psychologist Paul Ekman. HOWEVER, this type of analysis can't really be done with just a still photo as one needs some sort of baseline in an interactive environment in order to gauge a response to any particular situation/question. If the author had access to VIDEO, I've got no trouble seeing the applicability of the concept - my skepticism stems from the purported ability to discern anything of value from a still photograph.

ganjoa

reply to post by smyleegrl

Dangerous psuedo-science in my view. And I certainly don't like the implications of guilt being presumed prior to any action.

Originally posted by ganjoa
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

There's fairly decent corroboration that these techniques can be effectively used on live subjects - the TV series "Lie to Me" was based on a real practitioner, psychologist Paul Ekman. HOWEVER, this type of analysis can't really be done with just a still photo as one needs some sort of baseline in an interactive environment in order to gauge a response to any particular situation/question. If the author had access to VIDEO, I've got no trouble seeing the applicability of the concept - my skepticism stems from the purported ability to discern anything of value from a still photograph.

ganjoa

Completely agree.

Originally posted by trysts
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Dangerous psuedo-science in my view. And I certainly don't like the implications of guilt being presumed prior to any action.

I don't think it's assuming guilt, just preparing for a possible problem. But there's potential to profile, no doubt about that.

reply to post by smyleegrl

Interesting stuff for sure. I wonder how this profiling would hold up in court? If it is strong enough to do that then maybe it is useful, but still could not be absolute me thinks. I think they could apply this tech to CEO's and LEO's as a routine review to tell if someone is so stressed out or mad, they are about to snap.

reply to post by smyleegrl

I think this information is theorized more for people about to go on a rampage,

This is how I also interpret this science, which if my interpretation is correct this make me go straight to the question of how the hell has this person seen the faces of the accused prior to the acts to make this statement?

Has she been asked by the authorities or lawyers to view footage that might be available that caught the suspects faces just prior to their acts? If so how much detail was available to be able to analyze

Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Sorry, WanDash.

No apologies!~
I WANT the spotlight - otherwise I WILL SNAP.

That what is brilliant about ATS, just start a thread about what ever your heart desires, place it in the right forum and follow term and cond. so as to no get banned or what you post deleted and the spotlight is all yours, shining on you.

Or have you lost your keys in the backyard and its night and you literally want the spotlight to find them

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I think this information is theorized more for people about to go on a rampage,

This is how I also interpret this science, which if my interpretation is correct this make me go straight to the question of how the hell has this person seen the faces of the accused prior to the acts to make this statement?

Has she been asked by the authorities or lawyers to view footage that might be available that caught the suspects faces just prior to their acts? If so how much detail was available to be able to analyze

I did a search for schools offering degrees in this, couldn't find any. After looking into her background, it seems this "science" is more Eastern in origin. Nothing wrong with that, just not a typical western science.

I, too, would like to know how she saw the faces. My guess is the press supplied her with a photo, but the best that would do is tell about the person's stress at the moment the photo was taken.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I think this information is theorized more for people about to go on a rampage,

This is how I also interpret this science, which if my interpretation is correct this make me go straight to the question of how the hell has this person seen the faces of the accused prior to the acts to make this statement?

Has she been asked by the authorities or lawyers to view footage that might be available that caught the suspects faces just prior to their acts? If so how much detail was available to be able to analyze

I did a search for schools offering degrees in this, couldn't find any. After looking into her background, it seems this "science" is more Eastern in origin. Nothing wrong with that, just not a typical western science.

I, too, would like to know how she saw the faces. My guess is the press supplied her with a photo, but the best that would do is tell about the person's stress at the moment the photo was taken.

True, just raises too many questions.

field of study is what I should of called it as its in no way science western or eastern.

Everyone has their own philosophy or discoveries and can teach it to others, this is just hers in my opinion.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
That what is brilliant about ATS, just start a thread about what ever your heart desires, place it in the right forum and follow term and cond. so as to no get banned or what you post deleted and the spotlight is all yours, shining on you.
...

My gift to the world!
"Feed me, Seymour!"

Originally posted by smyleegrl
This is how I also interpret this science, which if my interpretation is correct this make me go straight to the question of how the hell has this person seen the faces of the accused prior to the acts to make this statement?

Has she been asked by the authorities or lawyers to view footage that might be available that caught the suspects faces just prior to their acts? If so how much detail was available to be able to analyze.

I did a search for schools offering degrees in this, couldn't find any. After looking into her background, it seems this "science" is more Eastern in origin. Nothing wrong with that, just not a typical western science.

I, too, would like to know how she saw the faces. My guess is the press supplied her with a photo, but the best that would do is tell about the person's stress at the moment the photo was taken.

In addendum to the earlier aside - the General Manager added some other details...
This is, in no way a "new science"...
Another such physiological trait had to do with the forehead. The belief being that this (it was either a short [being the distance between the hairline & brow], or narrow forehead) trait, along with the whites-below-irises (and probably some others he didn't mention), had been found common to certain legendary serial killers (I don't really recall if he said "mass murderers").
He identified some of these historic names, that I do not recall...but also showed me some literature from earlier times in the 20th Century (and, possibly late 19th Century) where law enforcement officers were trained to "spot" such threats.
He, likewise, said that "expert" witnesses in some cases would "rely" on these characteristic traits in effort to substantiate the probable guilt or innocence of the accused in the hallowed courts of justice.

I don't think this thread is a waste, at all.
There may be something to it... Right?
People watch other people's eyes (the direction of movement) in conversation to see if the speaker is contriving or retrieving information...
Well - maybe that isn't the same thing (but he brought it up in the same conversation - letting me know that I had apparently answered his questions honestly...then, hiring me).

In my mind those are all valid concerning somebody on an emotional spiral downwards, my question always has been what drives a man to that descent? Its clear there a number of social issues underlying the cause but the real problem is finding out WHAT happens to drive a man down this path. Now i have heard plenty of copouts regarding anti-depressants and i am in no position to argue evidence for that theory..but there has to be something more we as a people have not yet addressed that is causing people to damn themselves in this manner..

who knows, maybe the drugs make them blind to the pain that comes with compassion and empathy when you are thinking such horrible things.. just my two cents.

Hale-bop Heaven's gate cult:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Mrgone


I wouldn't really cally this science. Generally if it originated 3000 years ago, they had it wrong.
Also, it says facial warning signs, but then just talks about white under or around the iris? How close to a crazy persons face do you have to be to see this white? How many times has this scientist really been around someone that was imminently going to snap (and did after he observed them) and saw white around their iris?

Sorry, and no offense OP, but this sounds like new age rubbish.

*double facepalm*

I'm not going to comment on the validity of this...is this science? Ok let's call it a theory. But if enough people read and or believe this I'm totally screwed.

I have a thyroid condition called Graves Disease. It's an auto-immune disorder, and it causes a secondary/related disease of the eye. I won't get into all the different symptoms of the disease but the eye-thing operates independently of the thyroid once you get it. My thyroid is now dead and all the symptoms are gone and I take synthetic thyroid hormone to replace what was lost. But the eye condition remains.

When in it's active phase, which lasts approximately a year to a year and a half the body attacks the eyes and causes a tissue build up which pushes the eyes outward from the sockets. Right now, in the left eye particularly (because for me the push-out is not symmetrical, it is worse in one eye than the other) you can always see white space around the entire iris. Furthermore, I rub my eyes a lot because they are dry and scratchy and painful because they don't close completely.

I can assure you the odds of me committing murder let alone mass murder are less than 0%.

I am trained as a criminal profiler. That said, I don't think it can ever be an exact science until it is acknowledged that the most profound indicator of a serial killer or mass murderer is that they are somehow ultra-normal. They have many more qualities of what is qualified as a "normal" human being, that their normality may be the most predictable facet. I consider it to be a sociological problem. Every society has a set of norms, but all individuals expect that no one will conform to them all. In fact, we expect that each of us will have at least one difference that makes one an individual. It may be in that self-reflective transaction, the "difference" one strives to make ends up being an extreme that is unmistakeable. "If I kill people randomly then there is no doubt that I have made a difference." It's a warped logic, but logic nonetheless.