Obama Will Bring War To The USA In 2013 Using The Backing Of Anti-Gun Advocates to Divide Society.

reply to post by Golf66


Read this about fertilizer from DHS.
www.dhs.gov...

And retail fertilizer sold at home depot has been altered in order to prevent it from being used in explosives.

reply to post by Golf66


The part about you would get help from anybody who would help you? So you would play the old card of the enemy of my enemy is my friend? That is the BS terrorist play book of how we ended up with Osama Bin Laden in the first place. That is the biggest problem, in this world. And you wonder why they might want to take your gun away or at least the 30 round clips and assault weapons you could use for a mass killing like your friend Bin Laden.

And you have some sympathizer with you who gave you a star for that. Scary!

reply to post by JBA2848

woah, that's a leap if i ever read one ... please step away from the edge of the cliff.

what you fail to realize is that much like all insurgents, Americans are humans too.
our soldiers are family members with generations before and after them.
why else do you think the insurgencies have endured for decades at a time ?

heck, half the 'warriors' of today aren't even sure why it all started ... they weren't out of diapers yet. but, they do know their kin has been 'killed' by the occupiers and this, most can understand.

it would not be pretty but it certainly wouldn't be the stealth attack you seem to think would happen.

Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by Golf66

 

Read this about fertilizer from DHS.
www.dhs.gov...

And retail fertilizer sold at home depot has been altered in order to prevent it from being used in explosives.

Wow - that is a proposal for a law not a law.... it is what they want to do not what they have done. Do keep up.

Also, I can go buy ammonium nitrate in many forms (granules. powder, even liquid) at the farm supply store.

When I spoke of Home Depot I was not addressing fertilizer in particular. Without going into it here (in case there are dip#s about) there are an infinite number of combinations of the chemicals for sale over the counter at any hardware store that result in a very large boom...along with any various combinations of blister/inhalant/ side effects.

PS. There is plenty of ammonium nitrate in Scotts premium turf builder to (with the proper accelerant and force) to make it go boom too. Don't fool yourself. What do you think they teach in Special Forces Engineer School?

reply to post by Honor93


Take a step back?
He is the one who said.

I would do what any insurgent leader does. Take help from whomever would render it, make whatever promises needed to be made to get such assistance walk away will all that I could get keeping them just appeased enough o continue such aid. I'd welcome some Russian Spetznaz operators into my AO gladly, (I speak pretty decent Russian still BTW) with their arms and money I'd fight my part of the war.

Then if or when we win the national level leaders would claim the individual local leaders with whom the outside actors had worked had no authority to make any promises and we'd do as we pleased. Happens every day all over the world.

Happened to the US in Afghanistan when the Mujahedeen were fighting the Russians as a matter of fact...

en.wikipedia.org...

He was born in the Bin Laden family to billionaire Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden in Saudi Arabia. He studied there in college until 1979, when he joined the mujahideen forces in Pakistan against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Or is he going the way of Oswald?

en.wikipedia.org...

A former U.S. Marine who had defected to the Soviet Union between October 1959 and June 1962, Oswald was initially arrested for the murder of police officer J. D. Tippit, on a Dallas street approximately 40 minutes after Kennedy was shot. Suspected in the assassination of Kennedy as well, Oswald denied involvement in either of the killings. Two days later, while being transferred from police headquarters to the county jail, Oswald was shot and killed by nightclub owner Jack Ruby in full view of television cameras broadcasting live.

Either way scary!

reply to post by Golf66

ya know, i've noticed that liquid toilet bowl cleaners seem to be sparce on retail shelves ... i wonder if it is being 'phased-out' ?

Originally posted by JBA2848The part about you would get help from anybody who would help you?

Yes, I would…

Originally posted by JBA2848So you would play the old card of the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

I would do whatever it took to survive and win - period…what would you do for your freedom? I unlike you have been to places without it. I never want to live there. Places where people say the wrong thing and disappear without a trace in the night.

Originally posted by JBA2848That is the BS terrorist play book of how we ended up with Osama Bin Laden in the first place. That is the biggest problem, in this world.

Please, do tell how did the US create OBL? School us on your knowledge of terrorist organizations… I can’t because of my NDA.

Originally posted by JBA2848And you wonder why they might want to take your gun away or at least the 30 round clips and assault weapons you could use for a mass killing like your friend Bin Laden.

Again, I know MSNBC and Bloomberg are cool and all but please learn the difference between a clip and a magazine before we discuss gun control further. I don't debate things I don't understand... Before you are against something perhaps you should know what you are talking about.

reply to post by Golf66


All I know is, the guy from Burn Notice was Special Forces and that guy can make an explosive device out of his shoelace and some drywall. Puts MacGyver to shame.

Seriously, it would be cool to know all that stuff. Lot of respect for the military, thanks for the service.

I think the main thing to realize when arguing with civilians would be that our reality is perceived as one thing, and the reality of a war in our backyard is beyond the scope of our thought process. If it did happen, I'd much rather have you for a neighbor, dude.

reply to post by Golf66


There is already laws on the books that is there newest laws to strengthen it.

articles.aberdeennews.com...

reply to post by JBA2848

yes, i read it, so ?
tactics is tactics, what's so surprising about that ?

you're trippin on that just a bit too hard, honest.

perhaps you're ignoring the link i provided earlier ?
something about KGB files ... verified traitors have infilitrated our government more than once over the years, sometimes it takes great force to remove them.

reply to post by Golf66


And taking away a 30 round magazine or clip (slang easier to type), drum feeds and I really don't care about what they call assault weapons( they say any rifle with a pistal type grip). Is reason enough to go to war and team up with some one like Bin Laden? I even hate the Republican game of wanting to make MeK our friends. Hell they killed generals and other soldiers not to mention the bombing in New York and other locations over seas. But they love them now because they hate Irans leadership?

reply to post by JBA2848

dude, do you even read your OWN links ??

The law, which the fertilizer industry supported, leaves the U.S. with weaker controls on ammonium nitrate than Britain, Germany, Australia, Israel, Saudi Arabia and many other nations.

so, are you saying we are better off and 'restricted' to a point that it provides greater safety to the public, or not ?

reply to post by Honor93

They only restricted retail in a consumer store. They want to tighten restrictions on commercial. That is where the problem on the restrictions are. DHS played the game of paying Honeywell to create safe alternatives instead of putting restrictions on commercial fertilizers. After the Norway killer told how you create a fake farm and buy all you want they now want restrictions on commercial fertilizer. His manifesto laid out how to by pass the restrictions in Norway and it would also work here.

reply to post by JBA2848

ok, you keep believin it ... don't let the facts get in your way
regardless of what, if anything, was actually done, the public is no safer from such a concoction today than they were in 2007.

Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by Golf66

 

There is already laws on the books that is there newest laws to strengthen it.

articles.aberdeennews.com...

Are you reading what you are linking LOOK at the list of ingredients in Scotts turf builder...is 32 percent ammonium nitrate.

Then this from your article:

Tests conducted by the Defense Department since the Oklahoma City bombing have demonstrated that the fertilizer can blow up with as little as 10 percent to 25 percent nitrogen content, according to ATF and defense officials. In one test, the department detonated a hopper car full of fertilizer and yielded an explosion equal to 20,000 pounds of TNT, according to a senior defense official. That blast was about equal to the largest conventional ordnance in the Pentagon's arsenal, and four times larger than has been estimated for the Oklahoma City blast. Detonating ammonium nitrate requires a booster, such as widely available special gunpowders or harder-to-get plastic explosives. Mixing fuel oil with ammonium nitrate is sometimes done to improve its explosive power, but is not necessary.

Keep drinking the "government will save me" Cool Aid... It's not hard to make something go boom at all - I was an SF Engineer a long time ago. I was an officer after that and admittedly my skills in that area have atrophied but you'd be amazed at what one can do with household chemicals and an internet connection... I will not discuss them here just out of decency but a quick Google will give you all the information you need to blow yourself to hell and back.

Look, the last thing I want to fight the US military. I don't want to fight anyone in fact I have seen enough war to last me a lifetime if not more than one.

All I am doing is refuting that your idea that an insurgency in the US is not winnable. It is... It doesn't take a large percentage of a population to take up arms. Especially in the beginning to get things in motion.

During the infancy of the American Revolution estimates are that less than 10% of the population resisted the Crown even passively. However, as the Crown cracked down and pissed off the people more and more and as we started to actually win the popularity increased.

It may seem like there are not many people would fight for their rights right now but inside a good portion of the population doesn’t feel the government represents their best interests.

Think if it like a school dance. All the couples want to dance but no one wants to be the first one - once the first couple hits the floor the rest follow and the dance is on.

reply to post by BSFC123

KISS = Keep it Simple, Stupid, which is a well-known acronym. If you are unfamiliar with it then I apologize, as I was not calling you stupid.

However, the idea of putting sensitive electronics (which current tech fingerprint readers are) into something like that that may be dropped and contains significant recoil forces on a scale that small IS pretty stupid. I think that's ultimately why that very idea has not been tried yet. They can't quite make it work and make it economically feasible.

Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by Golf66

 

And taking away a 30 round magazine or clip (slang easier to type), drum feeds and I really don't care about what they call assault weapons( they say any rifle with a pistal type grip). Is reason enough to go to war and team up with some one like Bin Laden?

I have a pellet gun with a pistol grip - looks just like an AR. Is it an assault weapon? The people who want to ban assault weapons have mostly no clue what that is... It's anything military looking.

Clip is not slang for a magazine. It is a separate device used to feed rounds (one at a time into the breach of) to a weapon designed for such a mechanism i.e. the Garand. Saying "clip" and magazine are interchangeable is like saying a wrench is the same as a screwdriver. The only people who call a magazine a clip are people who have no knowledge of firearms and their various types/cycles of fire. Usually, the same people are all for regulating and banning things that deal with firearms. If i wanted to ban something it'd give me some credibility if I used the correct terms.

I never said I'd team up with OBL (or someone similar) you inferred that and assumed a lot. I know it makes you think that it will attach a negative stigma to my point of view. It's a debate technique, I get it - it works for the casual reader. However it doesn't to the informed.

I said I'd side with any number of outside actors if they offered aid to the cause. OBL is not a Soldier, he is a religious whack job terrorist. Rather obviously one persons terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Whoever wins gets to make the labels.

Had we lost the American Revolution our founding fathers would be labeled criminals, treason and sedition inciting terrorists...

reply to post by netwarrior

i'm surprised they haven't embedded rfid strips or gps locators or some senseless crap in them already. who knows, maybe they have and we just haven't found them yet ?

anyone else surprised at the $$$ the Freedom Group is generating with this BS ?
they own more than half of the manufacturers and i can almost guarantee those funds are being funneled right back into the ANTI platform.
sweet deal they've got going, huh ?

Originally posted by BSFC123
I think the main thing to realize when arguing with civilians would be that our reality is perceived as one thing, and the reality of a war in our backyard is beyond the scope of our thought process.

That's kind of the point I was trying to make with the other guy. Having been to places and fought for quite frankly both (IMO) the oppressed and for the oppressors at various points as ordered I have seen an insurgency in all its forms. I have seen war - I don't want one in my back yard. All that said - I am not rolling over out of convenience either.

It is the slippery slope thing. Today they want the large capacity mags and the military style (looking) weapons because they have conditioned the people to fear them and some (a loud minority) want them gone. Tomorrow what will they want? Something that matters to someone else I'd wager.

Originally posted by BSFC123
If it did happen, I'd much rather have you for a neighbor, dude.

Well, I would caveat all my qualifications with the disclaimer they are skills that atrophy over time. I am no John Rambo or MacGyver. I'd have to do a lot of brushing up to make any decent IEDs. I can still shoot well as I reload and practice a lot. I am not 30 anymore, while I am active (own a dairy farm) I am not wining any marathons or rucking 20k a day with 55 lbs for a couple weeks either.

I just hope it doesn't come to it. Honestly, I don't know what I'd do. I will put up with a lot of government shenanigans as long as my retirement pay and health care are intact. However, should that change or stop I wouldn't have much to lose in fighting the good fight. I simply won't register any weapons or pay any taxes or for stamps other than on the class 3 weapons I already own.

I have a crap load of guns it would break me to have to pay 200.00 for every one of them Diane Frankenstein wants to term an Assault rifle. I will take my Dad's from his safe when he passes and give them to my daughter when I pass - legal or no I will not register them or make lawful transfers. That is a breach of the 2nd and the 4th respectively.

Many of my weapons were private purchase or trophies they have no records of me owning them. If we get to a house to house sweep (violating the 4th) I have 160 acres to hide them.... 8" PVC, calk and proper lube orders all on hand to make that happen.

I'll passively resist until they take that option away from me. I won't be a founding father is what I am saying.

Originally posted by Rezlooper

Originally posted by cybro
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive..."

So true! But, I believe now our communications are much better and we'll all know what's going on. Then, it will be up to us what we do about it, and I'm almost certain that if it came to it where they began going door to door for our guns, we won't stand idly by. This IMO is the only way that actual civil war could ever happen, is when they actually try to take people's guns. It won't happen. Gun sales are breaking all records right now because every sane thinking American knows they may try to pass laws to stop sales and make it very difficult to get a gun, so get them now! As far as coming to take them away...Good Luck!

I disagree regarding the speed of communication. Speed has only brought centralization and lack of control by the individual. We think twitter and Facebook are tools under our control, but - aside from being muddled by frivolous nonsense, and aside from any idiot being able to hold equal attention of the public's "ear" - they are run by private companies that operate over a handful of carriers' networks. Those carriers are not beholden to the people, they are beholden to share holders and first and foremost to the Government due to regulations.

Lets also not forget that huge information vacuum out in Utah that is scheduled to go online this upcoming year. This will certainly facilitate control as it will be the epitome of centralization. Speed has grown exponential, and with it so has slight of hand. By that, I mean the myriad of technologies developed in just the last few years that allow computers to spy undetected, recognize images, video and audio, make inconspicuous changes to images, video, or audio, track people in multiple ways, and even facilitate one person's ability to act as many in social networks.

No, speed has become nearly instant and as a result, individual control has gone down to zero. Before any argument brings up the amount of personalization in Internet communications, it should be pointed out that, for the most part, not that many people can see what any given person says, and on the off chance that it does go viral, it's somebody's cat playing the piano or a very adept sports move. Random people convey mostly banal thoughts, humor and personal issues online to their connected ones (friends, followers, fans, etc), of which not all actually see the message and of those that can, they do not.

As individuals, we still see ourselves in control of our message, and, for the most part we are! But freedom of speech is not meant only for artistic expression or personal narratives. When it counts, you will see how much control you have...

Voice only - absolute certainty your message will be transmitted - but, takes a long time to walk all the way to your listeners

Telling someone - loss of control to a middle man to convey your message (telephone game) - but, saves time for spread of message.

Printed word (letters, newsprint) - sometimes words on paper can be ambiguous, there's no chance to clarify if they don't understand - but it reaches more people faster

Internet networks - people can clarify, but messages can also be boggled, less authenticity of the sender than before, and someone can easily alter a message and hijack it - but speed of message is instant.