Difficulty in Unifying Spirituality/Philosophy/Science

There is a serious difficulty in unifying these three general modes of thought. This is not due to some intrinsic incompatibility, but rather is self-created due to almost everyone narrowly focusing in on one of these areas. We can look at three basic ways of describing things, and describe the reactions.

Purely Spiritual
1. Some will like it, either cuz they know about what is being discussed or because they like the way it sounds.
2. Others will say it is nonsense and has no meaning.

Spiritual/Philosophic/Scientific
1. Very few will like it. Those who like it will like it because they are knowledgable in all three areas.
2. Most will not like it. This will be for one of two reasons. If you are 'purely spiritual,' you won't like it because it is 'too technical/scientific.' If you are 'purely scientific,' you will say that this is 'not technical/scientific enough,' therefore 'pseudo-science.'(The exactly opposite reactions are humorous)

Pure Scientific
1. Some will like it, because they think it is 'objectively true' due to what they have read 'respectable scientists' say.
2. Some won't like it, because it is 'boring' and 'un-inspiring.'

When you study all of these areas, and get to the core of them you will find amazing parallels between them all. That they can be reconciled is clear. This has been one of the major things that has excited and motivated me over the past couple years. That these can all be studied and brought together. Yet I have been disappointed to find this isn't a true aspiration of many. Nonetheless, more and more 'respectable scientists' will begin to sound similar to 'knowledgeable mystics,' and so over time the masses will begin to unconsciously understand their similarities more.

"Many have explored the remarkable convergence between the mystical traditions of the world and modern science. However, none of them has done this in a more succinct and convincing way than Einstein and Buddha; this remarkable collection of quotes by famous Eastern mystics and modern physicists is a fascinating contribution to the emerging paradigm." -Stanislav Grof

Perhaps the similarities you see are simply the similarity of the human mind operating/processing on different topics. Perhaps you see the areas where some could use combined forces and arrive to a more balance study of all that is.

We all have opinions and here is mine...science will exist for another 6 to 8 hundred years as its own identity. At that time a joining will occur where all will become one study for all. This is nothing more than an opinion.

Great topic! S+F

Lets start with science. Science must be able to measure reality.

As bio mechanical beings I believe science will continue to progress to the point of being able to measure our entire electromagnetic energy field. Within this are times when we are in a more "connected" or "spiritual" state.

Now to quantum theory. It is feasible that everything exisits and is connected through some unified energy field. This is the essence of spirituality as well. All the information that existed at the Big Bang is contained in every quanta of light based on the quantum holograph theory.

What about philosophy? Philosophy to me is the opposite of spirituality. It's an an attempt to define Truth with a capital T based on one's own individual experiences and perceptions. The more we philosophize about the Truth the further away we move from it.

Spirituality is being, being totally aware and connected. Science will progress and maybe be able to trigger this state in people. Philosophers will then come along and tell us how we're wrong and they're right. Lol

If memory serves me, Philosophy created Science to move forward in their Philosophical debates. To arrive at an agreement to serve them further towards whatever the topic. So perhaps there is where you see some bridges between Science and Philosophy.

reply to post by JustWalter


Indeed, science was philosophy before the word science was conceived. Most philosophers in earlier times also engaged in scientific or mathematic activity.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by JustWalter

 

Indeed, science was philosophy before the word science was conceived. Most philosophers in earlier times also engaged in scientific or mathematic activity.

Which is why the most intelligent back then would probably still be among the most intelligent today, despite not having all of the information we have acquired since then. Everyone's too specialized now. All these distinctions between 'different fields' blinds people from the underlying trends.

reply to post by TheJourney


You should read about Walter Russell he explains why Einstein was wrong and in fact all other scientists as they measure only the effect and not the cause, will definitely open your mind to the illusion we are all fed by the scum.

reply to post by TheJourney


Agreed. One great example is Lord Francis Bacon. If you get a chance, read his Novum Organum. Although a little out of date, it's difficult to imagine such creativity involved in conceiving such a work.

I think that science is more accepting of spirituality than spirituality is of science. The reason for that is, science does not argue with spirituality because there is no science to it and it always seems to be correct, where as spirituality does not agree with science if it is not correct and that happens.

The thing about philosophy is, it is not a mode of thought but the unraveling of thoughts.

Originally posted by TRUELIES11
I think that science is more accepting of spirituality than spirituality is of science

If that were true, then the body of parapsychological findings would have been disseminated throughout science long ago.

reply to post by BlueMule
What about the body of science and the body of spirituality? I think you failed to separate the two when you read what I wrote.

There are no issues. It is correct or it does not work.

When spirituality and science are working together, the scientist does not have to teach you, even though that is where the information came from.

You do realize by now I have been talking about you.

reply to post by TRUELIES11


I think that spirituality is more accepting of science than science is of spirituality.

It's materialism that spirituality rejects.

Whereas mainstream science knows darn well that parapsychology studies the topics that had previously been known only in spiritual terms. So, it marginalizes it. The gatekeepers want to leave all that 'superstitious mumbo-jumbo' in the past.

reply to post by BlueMule

When science does not accept spirituality, science ignores it, because spirituality does not have the physical presence of science. No sweat off the back of science.

It does not work that way with spirituality.

The thing about materialism is, it is no part of you. It can make you feel good or better about yourself without having anything to do with any part of you.

reply to post by TheJourney


They can certainly coexist, but they cannot necessarily work in unison. Science is concerned with physical, tangible reality. Spirituality is (mostly) concerned with metaphysical hypotheses. Spirituality is a lot more like modern psychology, or other social sciences, than it is like chemistry, biology, or physics. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I believe people should be versed in both halves, independently; and not let them overlap on one another.

If you're concerned about your health, and your biological origins then learn about physical cosmology, medicine, and health. If you want to help abate a fear of death, or try to understand why you are attracted to particular ideas more than others then try one (or more) of the world's many faiths and traditions. Do not make the mistake of thinking that alternative medicine or pseudo-science is better at preventing disease though. Just as you should not hold you breath in hopes that chemists and physicists are concerned with whether you can see auras or not.

Two independent fields. One which helps you understand the objective reality around you; the other which helps you navigate the subjective space within you.

~ Wandering Scribe

The spiritual plane is non physical, and is made up of only energy.

When shifts happen in the energetic plane - shifts trickle down into the physical. The physical plane is a RESULT, not a cause, of energetic shifts.

To put this into an example someone can understand easily: The energy of the Earth is currently shifting into a more female energy. This is due to the placement of the Earth in the Milky Way and Universe. So the energy of the Earth is shifting to more feminine - and what RESULTS from this shift is more female presidents, women's rights, more right brained thinking (right brain is female), and so on.

So the changes you can see on the physical plane (the changes you can measure with science) come after the energetic change. It's like a ripple effect.

So the spiritual affects the physical. And as for philosophy, I'm not sure what you said about philosophy but it's all tied together. The universe is absolutely perfect, even our desire to change it, and even our primitive view of it. Everything happens for a reason, you'll see if you pay attention.

EDIT: Anyone who denies the existence of anything "spiritual" has obviously never astrally projected. Millions of people all over the world can leave their physical bodies and travel in a totally non physical plane that's partially overlapping the physical. That is the easiest way to comprehend Earth reality to me - to know that the astral plane directly overlaps the physical and then fades away into more of a non physical formlessness as you get into the higher astral planes. Easy.

Originally posted by p3ac3fulwa77ior
EDIT: Anyone who denies the existence of anything "spiritual" has obviously never astrally projected. Millions of people all over the world can leave their physical bodies and travel in a totally non physical plane that's partially overlapping the physical. That is the easiest way to comprehend Earth reality to me - to know that the astral plane directly overlaps the physical and then fades away into more of a non physical formlessness as you get into the higher astral planes. Easy.

edit on 28-12-2012 by p3ac3fulwa77ior because: (no reason given)

Anyone can trick the body into doing seemingly amazing things. Some obviously don't or won't realize this nor admit it. Nonetheless they always arrive back in their body once they awake, stop taking drugs or heal their stressed mind. OBE's are nothing new and not even anything profound. Those who search for it are looking for a way out but too scared to take the plunge.

Before we go any further in this discussion, it might help to clarify what is meant by the generic term "science".

The Scientific Method was indeed a system of research developed by philosophers to help view and understand the physical and natural world around them. If by "science" you mean the Scientific Method, then its not so much something you believe in, as tool to help understanding.

However, if you define "science" as the Academic Community, then you might want to be a little more specific. Are we talking about researchers that specialize in Life Sciences (i.e. Biology), Physical Sciences (i.e. Physics, Engineering), Earth Sciences (i.e. Geology) or Social Sciences (i.e. Psychology, Sociology). Each discipline has its own ways of viewing the Universe around us.

Or by "science" do we simply mean the majority of people not actively engaged in research using the Scientific Method, and who are either unsure about faith, religion, or philosophy; and instead choose to believe everything a "Scientist" tells them without bothering to read or research further into what they're being told.

I think clarification is important in this discussion because what I might mean by the generic term "science" might be totally different from what anyone else means by it, which could lead not to honest intelligent discussion, but rather to name callings and recriminations.

As for my opinion on the matter its simply this; Established Religious Organizations ( the Roman Catholic Church, the Church of England, etc.) and Scientifically Based Academic Communities have this in common. They are made up by people who spend their whole lives and base their personal reputations on certain ideas (right or wrong doesn't matter) and world views. As such they are not comfortable with anything or anyone that might question those views or prove those ideas wrong, so they dismiss anything that's the least questionable or not in their world view. That's why they're not comfortable with spirituality or philosophy, both of which at their foundations encourage their adherence to constantly question and re-question ideas and concepts to grow.

Also I believe that the current Scientific Communities have based most their ideas on a more humanistic and materialistic philosophies. Those philosophies don't really encourage self examination, or personal accountability when it comes right down to it. Those are big parts of spirituality and philosophy, not religious dogma. If you believe that all your actions and emotions are caused by chemicals and hormones, then its really hard to be personally guilty for doing various things that may harm yourself or others. And lets be honest, its easier to sleep at night if you can blame someone or something else for your troubles. However if you have a personal set of spiritual beliefs or philosophy based on an idea or concept greater than yourself, you have to be honest and accept that with free will comes personal accountability.

That's my view, but I'm always interested to hear other views, that's what makes this site so interesting to read.

reply to post by TheJourney


Even if you unified it with absolute proof, there will still be denier.

There are still people who believe The Earth is flat.

People will believe whatever they want...