Man Shown A Once Atheist Author Now In Hades, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times

reply posted on 27-12-2012 @ 09:10 PM by EllaMarina

reply to post by TheChosenKing

The image of God as the active caster. That is a sign of the favored mentality of Him as the universal revenge-taker for everyone who has been wronged. It gives the impression that those who inform others of it take pleasure in picturing such a scene.

reply posted on 27-12-2012 @ 09:30 PM by DupontDeux

Originally posted by EfficientP
Ever wonder what happens to some of these famous people who promote atheism and then die and find out what the afterlife really holds without taking Pascal's wager?

Not Pascal's heretic gambit again!

Surely you do not liken 'playing it safe' to 'having faith', do you?

Are you actually encouraging people to exploit Christianity and chose it for the benefits; to use it as a fail safe, and to (try to) trick God into granting what should not be granted?

That is so terribly, terribly blasphemous!

Either you fail to grasp your religion, and thereby worship some kind of personal made up creation rather than God Himself, or, even worse, you do not fail grasp your religion yet STILL encourage people to take blasphemous actions and in doing so you blaspheme God yourself.

Either way you should be on the fast track to downstairs, and probably more so than I, a non believing non blasphemer.

Shame on you.

reply posted on 27-12-2012 @ 10:00 PM by EllaMarina

reply to post by DupontDeux

It isn't like a person can simply switch on a belief in a deity, either. The prevailing impression among those to whom it is merely common sense, like the air around them, is that everyone believes God exists but only has yet to acknowledge it to themselves. That is false.

edit on 27-12-2012 by EllaMarina because: compulsive editor

reply posted on 27-12-2012 @ 10:18 PM by Rise27

I am not a skeptic of accounts of visiting Heaven. I know they happen.
I started reading this with the expectation it was probably real.

But I got to chapter 4 before deciding I wasn't going to waste anymore time on what appears to be an obvious fabrication for many reasons.
The idea that he was seeing something no one else had ever seen up to that point.
The over dependance on having the characters quote scripture rather than convey new revelation.
Some things he claims would go against our best understanding of heavenly things.

The quote of the ""tormenator" is not true according to the bible either, where he claims the athiest is under more severe judgement than a fallen angel.
Jesus made it clear certain cities would be judged worse because they had more evidence of the truth yet still chose to rebel. Those in ignorance are not held to the same standards of judgement.
Fallen angels had an understanding of God and experience with Him, yet still rebelled, so their punishment is always going to be more severe than any man in his state of ignorance surrounded by darkness.

God is also not interested in you just acknowledging his existance. The demons believe. That in itself doesn't mean anything.
What God wants is for you to submit to his will and stop rebelling to try to live apart from Him.
You have to believe to first be able to do that. But your belief by itself will get you no where if not followed up by action.

edit on 27-12-2012 by Rise27 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 27-12-2012 @ 10:28 PM by Wonders

Heaven and hell are real.

Thanks for trying EP

reply posted on 27-12-2012 @ 10:46 PM by glassspider

reply to post by Wonders

Well thanks for that they must exist because you just declared it with nothing more than your own belief as evidence .strange im still not scared of your useless dull imaginary friends judgement. If it were true heaven would be the most miserable dull place full of bitter people who judge others and condemn people to hell and hell is me and all my gay mates are going. hell big camp party with whores and gays like amsterdam pride. heaven bitter judgemental people who were too scared to live when they had the chanc you can keep it.

edit on 27-12-2012 by glassspider because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 27-12-2012 @ 11:45 PM by lonewolf19792000

Well if he's in Hades maybe if he asks Hades/Pluto nicely he'll let him go to see Zeus/Jupiter at Mt. Olympus.

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 12:22 AM by Wonders

Originally posted by glassspider
reply to post by Wonders

Well thanks for that they must exist because you just declared it with nothing more than your own belief as evidence .strange im still not scared of your useless dull imaginary friends judgement. If it were true heaven would be the most miserable dull place full of bitter people who judge others and condemn people to hell and hell is me and all my gay mates are going. hell big camp party with whores and gays like amsterdam pride. heaven bitter judgemental people who were too scared to live when they had the chanc you can keep it.
edit on 27-12-2012 by glassspider because: (no reason given)

Look spider, I'm not asking anyone to believe me, just as you don't expect me to become like you with your post, fair enough? No one's asking you to be a coward, cowards don't get into heaven.
Accusing people like me of being scared is a weak tactic, I'm not scared of your opinion of me. I don't care if you think I'm scared, I don't care if you think I've got a useless dull imagination, your opinion does not change mine one iota. You can puff up like a blowfish all you'd like over my post but that does not make your arguement any more valid than mine. Happy crawling.

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 01:26 AM by glassspider

reply to post by Wonders

You didnt have an argument you simply declared its the truth that heaven and hell exist thanks op for trying. Hardly a reasoned argument is it. and frankly people being what they think of as morally right (which changes depending which person you ask because a lot of religious people are selective over which bits of the.bible they want to follw) because they dont want to be sent to hell, which is what has been suggested seems like people in fear to me. amazing how judgemental of other peoples lives the religious people on here can be. There is a comment in this thread telling us to accept christ or be damned to hell. so i think i have the right to comment we dont have to believe childrens stories to be good people and im not sitting around telling people there is a hell for the people who dont have the same childrens stories as us.

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 01:27 AM by glassspider

reply to post by Wonders

To clarify i dont think you have a useless dull imagination i think the invented god figure is useless and dull.

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 01:51 AM by Wonders

Originally posted by glassspider
reply to post by Wonders

You didnt have an argument you simply declared its the truth that heaven and hell exist thanks op for trying. Hardly a reasoned argument is it. and frankly people being what they think of as morally right (which changes depending which person you ask because a lot of religious people are selective over which bits of the.bible they want to follw) because they dont want to be sent to hell, which is what has been suggested seems like people in fear to me. amazing how judgemental of other peoples lives the religious people on here can be. There is a comment in this thread telling us to accept christ or be damned to hell. so i think i have the right to comment we dont have to believe childrens stories to be good people and im not sitting around telling people there is a hell for the people who dont have the same childrens stories as us.

Glassspider, OFCOURSE you have the right to comment, you have the right to make all kinds of accusations, and from your post I can see that you already KNOW as much.
What you don't know is that I DON'T think I'm going to heaven when I die, now you can accuse me of the contrary all you'd like but I have my convictions.
Thank you for that second reply by the way, I truly am impressed with people who do their best to remain objective.
Accepting Christ isn't as many Christians believe, if they don't obey his commands then ultimately they aren't accepting him and all the proclamations of faith in grace is in vain, in other words they are taking his name in vain if they think they're saved and don't actually adhere to his teachings. There are people who will tell you that they are certain that God is real, I am one of those people, however whether we obey Jesus or not is another matter.
Am I going to try to obey, you bet! Will I succeed? MOST LIKELY NOT. Demons are very much real as well.
I don't see how it's "amazing" how judgemental ANYONE can be, including yourself, do I seriously need to ask you to examine your post? With that in mind why do you take so much offence to my comment if my attitude differs little from yours, don't I have a right to say what I think? There's plenty of conjecture to go around, the difference is in whether we are willing to listen and come up with our VERY OWN conclusion. I thanked OP for trying too.

By the way, you say I didn't have an argument, the "arguement" I spoke of began with my response to your rant directed at me. Just fyi.

edit on 10/01/11 by Wonders because: To add.

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 02:29 AM by glassspider

reply to post by Wonders

What i resent is the implication that there is a special place full of torture for anyone who doesnt follow every rule out of a book or believes a different book and that this kind of thing is drummed into children. That this god entity gave us free will and sexuality but expects us to exercise neither just follow some rules or he will make you suffer for all eternity. thats a really long time and it comes across as believe what i believe or else. i think it's genuinely sad if you believe in heaven and hell and think that it wont be the heaven direction you'll be going in not saying that to be snide i just think that would be a horrible belief to carry through life. any way its basically the threat side of it that bothers me and the fact that its used so often against me and other gay people.

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 03:09 AM by arpgme

reply to post by EfficientP

So what?

This is supposed to scare people into becoming Christians or something?

I have no fear of hell.

By the way, the bible says that there is no fear in perfect love - so if you fear - you are not fully loving...

Even though I'm convinced that the "God" of the bible is am evil being that wants to torture (and/or control) people.

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 03:57 AM by Wonders

Originally posted by glassspider
reply to post by Wonders

What i resent is the implication that there is a special place full of torture for anyone who doesnt follow every rule out of a book or believes a different book and that this kind of thing is drummed into children. That this god entity gave us free will and sexuality but expects us to exercise neither just follow some rules or he will make you suffer for all eternity. thats a really long time and it comes across as believe what i believe or else. i think it's genuinely sad if you believe in heaven and hell and think that it wont be the heaven direction you'll be going in not saying that to be snide i just think that would be a horrible belief to carry through life. any way its basically the threat side of it that bothers me and the fact that its used so often against me and other gay people.

Hey, I'm sorry that people are against you because you are gay. I wish some people weren't so pathetically interested in other people's sex lives. Many Christians go on about how they are hypocrites like that makes their conduct okay and I'm against that. Jesus didn't say nice things about hypocrites. I don't go around telling people to follow God, I do however try to clear up some of the misconceptions that they have coming from Christians who care not to read the bible for themselves but instead repeat what they've heard their venerated preachers reiterate and reiterate giving false hope to their spiritually dead audience who, through willful ignorance just lap it all up and ask for more because as the bible says, "they recieved not the love of the truth".

Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?

This verse applies today as it did a thousands of years ago.

I understand that the bible says a lot of things that are hard to digest, but we need to look at it in it's context for what it says instead of what we want it to say, then we'd be more apt to test what it says accurately. Jesus said, "DON'T BEGIN until you count the cost." , that was my personal mistake, the mistake that the church is committing BIG TIME by trying to recuit as many members who don't have a clue what being a follower really entails. They (People who pay for their bible knowledge and get paid to tell others "You're a sinner for life but there's grace in it for ya if you subscribe to my message.") are in it for the money, people shouldn't be preaching for a living, they ought to do it for free like Jesus did, even provide the food like Jesus did but nooo it's "Bring some soda for the New years eve party." I have heard the bible misconstrued too often to believe that all preachers are "annointed" by God. NO one is free from scrutiny and if anyone thinks they are, you can bet they are frauds because the bible says to "test EVERY spirit to see whether they are of God".
In reality if a Christian is legitimate, they'd be hated, persecuted, ignored, and ridiculed...but so many people believe that they are supposed to be immune to that because they are affilliated with some church.
You may think it's sad for me to believe in heaven and hell, and that's okay, but I still do, and that belief did not come from discrediting others who have shared their NDE experiences, seeing as how I have an NDE experience of my own, it's like Jesus said, "Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right."

edit on 10/01/11 by Wonders because: To add.

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 04:42 AM by Murgatroid

Another interesting NDE is that of George Rodonaia.

Three days in a morgue freezer = FORMER atheist...

YouTube Link

"George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Dr. Rodonaia was an avowed atheist who was killed by the KGB, pronounced dead, taken to the morgue for three days and returned to life during his own autopsy. Dr. Rodonaia was a psychiatric researcher who worked for the KGB and later became a dissident.

He was a scientist trained in historical materialism and did not believe in God. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. LINK

ATHEIST PROFESSOR IN HELL - Howard Storm

YouTube Link

A former atheist went to hell...what he saw !

YouTube Link

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 07:49 AM by ihavenoaccount

This is really twisted. It's sick and twisted. Possibly perverted, sick and twisted.

You know what? It is, in fact, depraved, perverted, sick and twisted.

I don't always assume to know what people are doing, but when I do (hehe), it's generally because they're being rude or nasty. OP, please cut the proverbial. You aren't trying to save anyone, or even point them in the right direction. You're like some of the believers I used to know, the ones who liked scaring grown-ups and kids alike into the fear of hell.

You're not doing it to convert them, however. You're doing it for the immense amount of pleasure you'll get from their panic and initial "revelation" of how wrong they were, how they should have listened to you sooner. Christian witnessing isn't about compassion for you - it's about domination.

These posts are really making my blood boil now. You see "Christians" say things like this one thread, get called out on it, and make an OP twenty minutes later about how the forum is "persecuting" them. It's gotten to a point where I can't resist the urge to do this, so here it goes.

I rebuke all on this forum who witness through the methods of fear and CAPITAL LETTERS. I rebuke all who claim persecution for being dressed down on the Internet of all places. I rebuke all those who choose to found an argument based on appeal to authority, ignorance, numbers, probability or special pleading. I rebuke all those who seem (yes, seem) to elicit satisfaction from talking down to others, manipulating the fears and hopes of others, etc, etc. These posters subscribe to a guilty-until-proven-innocent paradigm. As such, they shall be treated accordingly.

Anyways, sorry for getting off-topic.

Pics or it didn't happen. There is no evidence to suggest these people aren't making it up entirely. Every single Heaven/Hell NDE I've heard about is completely different, not to mention unbiblical. But not teaching eternal torment would mean less money for that collection plate, I guess.

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 08:14 AM by galactix

Originally posted by Rise27
I am not a skeptic of accounts of visiting Heaven. I know they happen.
I started reading this with the expectation it was probably real.

But I got to chapter 4 before deciding I wasn't going to waste anymore time on what appears to be an obvious fabrication for many reasons.
The idea that he was seeing something no one else had ever seen up to that point.
The over dependance on having the characters quote scripture rather than convey new revelation.
Some things he claims would go against our best understanding of heavenly things.

The quote of the ""tormenator" is not true according to the bible either, where he claims the athiest is under more severe judgement than a fallen angel.
Jesus made it clear certain cities would be judged worse because they had more evidence of the truth yet still chose to rebel. Those in ignorance are not held to the same standards of judgement.
Fallen angels had an understanding of God and experience with Him, yet still rebelled, so their punishment is always going to be more severe than any man in his state of ignorance surrounded by darkness.

God is also not interested in you just acknowledging his existance. The demons believe. That in itself doesn't mean anything.
What God wants is for you to submit to his will and stop rebelling to try to live apart from Him.
You have to believe to first be able to do that. But your belief by itself will get you no where if not followed up by action.

edit on 27-12-2012 by Rise27 because: (no reason given)

"What God wants is for you to submit to his will and stop rebelling to try to live apart from Him"

how does your God tell you His will?
what does rebelling look like?
why do we 'rebel', anyway?

do you really believe that humans are actually *ever* 'apart' from God? how can this be?

-truly curious.

reply posted on 28-12-2012 @ 09:19 AM by windword

reply to post by Murgatroid

Three days in a morgue freezer = FORMER atheist...

YouTube Link

What is it with God bringing all these atheists back to life? I thought only Jesus was "resurrected." I guess that's just not true! Look how many dead men walking are all around us!