CIVIL WAR: Senate To Go For Handguns

reply to post by themutant

But with all the hysteria many are forgetting at this point Congress wont pass what Fienstein is putting forward.....not in the state it is in.

And who in their right mind would have thought that the Patriot Act would have ever made it through Congress???

I'd like to add a couple things here. First @ Thread.

This isn't a gun ban. This is the first stage of a gun ban. We need not theorize. We need not speculate and the only ones arguing this are arguing in bad faith or are purely ignorant of the story of California. How it went from one of the most open and gun friendly states in this nation when I was growing up....to a state where you can do State Prison time now if you merely OWN a weapon I can buy from any store, anywhere in the Midwest with nothing more than a phone call background check. Freedom became tyranny and so extreme now, people living there often don't even realize HOW DIFFERENT their life actually IS from most of the nation.

It would be easier to debate as ANYTHING but what this is ...if they didn't have one of the TOP gun grabbers in American political life leading the charge with her own guns blazing. However, look at California laws. SHE HELPED MAKE THEM. She is trying to make ALL 50 STATES a mirror and with MORE added in for the end result.


@ Hefficide

I don't get into this much because it's depressing. I much rather prefer pointing out the 88.8 guns to every 100 American citizens and the 260-270 Million firearms known or thought to be in private hands among 330 million people overall. I love those numbers...they sound safe and comfy don't they? Like it could never change.....

All my happy thinking on that came to a brutal crash one night while reading the comments of a good friend of mine retired from the NYPD. In New York City, you see, they go on what they refer to as "Gun Runs" about as often as a normal Sheriff's department might serve court papers to people in another place. These "gun runs", in the context I thinking of them, are conducted by units of the Emergency Services Units of the New York City Police Department for door kicking and home searching on the express purpose of recovering 'contraband' firearms. Many times..I'm sure it's fully justified in a way I'd even agree with for who they are being taken from.

^^ You ask how it can happen though? Well...Not ALL those gun runs are felons in possession. Too many are citizen calls in to report a firearm thought to be in illegal circumstances.


Add ONE more factor, as my former detective friend did for me...and it's enough to sit down and get drunk for..because he's dead right.

For a LARGE % of those 120 million gun owners ...guns in the end aren't something they CAN use effectively if they ever even WANTED to. Turning them in for more than a $100 gift card ....say $500 Debit for cash credit...would get a majority of firearms turned in quickly enough by those not dead set of keeping them to the point of fighting.

Then? Well, then you have the Coup De' Gras.

For those millions of people who DO cling to their guns? Offer a $1,000 reward, cash paid and tax free without questions ....on successful recovery of a firearm by the report of a citizen. When they run out of people to BUY at $1,000? Raise it to $10,000. There won't be TOO many guns left that aren't so hard underground by that point that they'll be paying much anymore anyway. It WILL insure that no one has the guts to so much as JOKE about owning a firearm anywhere, for any reason what so ever.

^^^ And that, I can see happening FAR FAR too easily in this baseless, valueless society where Cash is king and the values of our Constitution are as negotiable in some minds as buying a used car.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Banning the magazine would essential ban the gun too. If someone owns a Glock 17 that accepts magazines that hold seventeen rounds, they would no longer be able to buy that gun or magazines for it... therefore, that gun would be banned for future sale/transfer because it is designed to hold a magazine that is too large. They would not be able to purchase the 19 either, because that holds more than 15 rounds.

This would also apply to many other handguns. Basically, any frame that was designed to hold a magazine with more than 10 rounds would not be allowed under this bill, unless owned before the bill. But then you would not be able to sell it if you no longer wanted it. Banning magazines is an effective way to ban the gun itself. What good is a gun that you cannot buy a magazine for?

Originally posted by MysterX
reply to post by L8RT8RZ

 

You're overlooking the fact that patriots are the type of people that don't have to have something done to them, for them to act.

IOW, police, military, agencies etc..are the people too, and a lot of them do what they do in order to defend the USA from enemies both foreign and domestic.

If i saw a small child in my local streets being punched and kicked to death by a grown man, i wouldn't think to myself 'He's not beating my children to death, so i'll stay out of it'...i'd act to defend the child, simply because it's patently and obviously wrong.

The same is true of those who serve authority who consider themselves to be patriots and loyal to the constitution and the people...it doesn't have to directly happen to them for them to know it's wrong and act accordingly...or not act, whatever the case may be.

You're overlooking the fact that it's not going to be black and white/ cut and dry. It will be a very, very gray area, in fact, it will be spun as to make you think you are doing the right thing as you give in to being controlled.

They aren't going to come up and say "We're taking over and you have to do what we tell you", no, it doesn't work that way. They'll wait, then they'll come in and "save you" and earn your gratitude, then they'll make you think it's YOUR idea to do what they want you to do. They are not fools, they are not backward hicks, they are not some programmed robots who can be recognized easily. They will fool you just as they fooled your parents and your grandparents and as they have already fooled you for however many years you have been alive.

This isn't some little tv script they are working from, they know how to manipulate you, they know how to tell you what you want to hear and they will have you do exactly what they want you to do. When they see you are fond of saying "true patriots", they will make it seem patriotic for you to do what they want you to. They will even make you think it's your idea to do the exact things they have lined up for you.

There's a reason the government recruits the bravest, the strongest, the smartest, it's so they can use them to manipulate everyone else. If you have the 'big dogs" on your side, all the little pups will fall right in behind them when the time comes.

You are just an average person, with average abilities and average intelligence. They will control you because you are easy to control.

Sure, you'll talk all big and bad and discuss what you'll do when faced with a circumstance, but you're not going to be in the circumstance you imagine, it's not going to be cut and dry and easy to make a decision. It's going to be complicated, it's going to be blurry, it's going to be confusing to you and you are going to make the decision they want you to make because they know what they're doing. You'll even make others fall into line right behind you because you see it as the right thing to do in the circumstance they create.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

This isn't a gun ban

It is a ban.

It may only be the first part of a much larger ban, but it IS a ban.

There are weapons that will be forbidden to own, sell or manufacture.

'Grandfathered' weapons will not be allowed to be transferred, to include giving them to your own son.

Originally posted by Valhall
reply to post by L8RT8RZ

 

Best advice I can give you is to stay in your basement typing out your hyperbolic comments on your utopian view of life when it starts. That way you're well out of the crossfire. Wouldn't want you getting an unintentional knick in your pantaloons.

You seem to not realize that a huge chunk of America views your description as that of an abhorrent dystopian civilization we want no part of it. While you're dreaming of gestapos roaming the streets to ensure no one has a scowl on their face that could indicate the next act of your delusionally-concocted vision of vicious savagery, the rest of us will be working to keep a free society where scowls are acceptable and people who murder other people go to prison and stay there.

Originally posted by 727Sky

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So since there is the extreme probability that the recent shootings were scripted hoaxes, and that discussion of that revelation is taboo or attacked at any popular website that matters, and that the gun grab is founded upon those likely hoaxes, yet now Civil War talk is promoted and allowed?

This is a super conspiracy dude.
Dont fall for it.

Well if any of those conspiracies are true expect another attack if they see their efforts failing just to tighten the lid on their process and keep everyone stirred up. I am more prone to believe the "lone drugged nut case" theory but there are many possibilities, some are currently being explored in different threads at ATS.

usnews.nbcnews.com...

Butcherguy I agree but the difference is most people had no clue what was in the Patriot act so they did not come out against it. This is getting so much more attention, the real danger is that they turn around and have OSHA go after all the Ammo. Without ammo guns are just paper weights plain and simple and peoples memories are short so don't be surprised if there is not another mass shooting in the next month or so.........

Originally posted by themutant
Butcherguy I agree but the difference is most people had no clue what was in the Patriot act so they did not come out against it. This is getting so much more attention, the real danger is that they turn around and have OSHA go after all the Ammo. Without ammo guns are just paper weights plain and simple and peoples memories are short so don't be surprised if there is not another mass shooting in the next month or so.........

You have a good point.

So much of our 'laws' today are just regulations put out by the executive branch, ie: EPA, DHS, IRS, OSHA ...... etc.
I wouldn't doubt that they will try to regulate ammo as an unsafe product.

Originally posted by L8RT8RZ

Originally posted by 727Sky

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So since there is the extreme probability that the recent shootings were scripted hoaxes, and that discussion of that revelation is taboo or attacked at any popular website that matters, and that the gun grab is founded upon those likely hoaxes, yet now Civil War talk is promoted and allowed?

This is a super conspiracy dude.
Dont fall for it.

Well if any of those conspiracies are true expect another attack if they see their efforts failing just to tighten the lid on their process and keep everyone stirred up. I am more prone to believe the "lone drugged nut case" theory but there are many possibilities, some are currently being explored in different threads at ATS.

usnews.nbcnews.com...

Yes I saw that incidence earlier; not a big enough heinous act to stirr the pot IMO; just another day in paradise... Big events need big solutions to help guide the masses..

Honestly that is what I see coming
I Have said this for a long time...if they wanted to stop/ban cars they know they cant, people just would not tolerate it
So they turn around and make tires or batteries SO expensive with taxes and regulations that the cost to manufacture them makes companies shut down except for Gov contracts. So they say we are NOT taking your cars you can have them, but they are a luxury NOT a right so pay or dont drive.
Well they may very well try the same thing with guns, I really don't see the Republicans caving and voting for this ban in THIS FORM.
So if it does not pass the congress it is dead, and I doubt Obama will risk pushing things to hard but he actually might and if he does it is either executive order to ban guns and let the Supreme court sort it out later.....or say ok well now there is this on Ammo and you cant have more than a 100 rounds at a time and have to do this or that.
A gun without ammo is a paper weight and they can say hey...we are NOT taking your guns

Originally posted by 727Sky

Yes I saw that incidence earlier; not a big enough heinous act to stirr the pot IMO; just another day in paradise... Big events need big solutions to help guide the masses..

Little things mean a lot...

We will not fall with a thunder, but a whimper

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Here is the bottom line. Believe it or not. If this "Feinstein" bill somehow manages to pass, there will be an uprising against this Government not seen since the Civil War. And that is the truth.

You can say I'm overreacting. You can say I'm crazy. But there is no way that people will let the 2nd Amendment be trampled on like this. Sure, there are those of you who "don't get it" and think everything in this provision is fine. But it's not.

Ban the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of ALL firearms with a detachable magazine and at least one “military characteristic”

Do you realize how broad that is?

Debate it all yo want. There is a huge MAJORITY of gun owners in America. And this move is just a big mistake.

It has been trampled on for a lllooonnnggg time! Where have you been?

The best way to defeat your enemy is small, gradual bannings. Little by little, year after year...THEN ONLY shotguns and mouse guns allowed. Duh man, duh!

You think they are stupid enough to ban everything over night and risk a civil war? Look at the UK as a classic example. One massacre, two massacres, three massacres......THE MEDIA SENSATIONALISES WHAT IS ON THE AGENDA....then government offers solutions, which have been decided years in advance behind closed doors.

Christmas is over, the kids opened their toys. They played and played, giving their full attention to the bright and shiney things they recieved. They exerted every ounce of energy they had and finally fell asleep.
Mom and Dad go through the house, pick up the paper, clean up the messes, put the children safely to bed. While they sleep, their rooms are cleaned, their toybox is arranged, some older toys are thrown away to make room for the new ones. It'll be weeks, maybe months before the kids even notice the old toys are gone, maybe never.
The house is put back into order and the kids wake up with smiles on their faces, ready to play more with their new toys, their attention glued to them. They play and play, taking a long time to grow tired of them. School and work starts back and the toys are played with less and less, some falling to the bottom of the toybox, others completely forgotten.
They're away at Grandma's one weekend and the toybox is cleaned out again. Maybe a new toy is bought for a birthday or just because the parents dote on their children and the attention is given to it, they don't notice that the old toys aren't there anymore. They put the new toy in a special place and take very good care of it.

...until next Christmas.

Manipulation is easy, parents do it all the time and children are trained to accept it from the time they can walk.

If you drop them off at daycare and they scream and cry, you find a different way to do it that they'll accept. You can even convince them to think they WANT to go there, to play with their friends, to enjoy the games, to do this or that, but they eventually fall right in line and do what you want them to do. You train them to, just as you have been trained.

The same thing is happening here, we're crying, not wanting to go to daycare, noticing that our favorite toy may be gone from the toy box, but there's another toy in the wings, there are friends to keep us occupied, we are nothing but children being manipulated into doing what our parents (the government) want us to do.

You can cry about it, you can throw a tantrum, but tomorrow, you'll be right here in daycare along with the rest of us.

A civil war with clearly defined combatants, organized into identifiable fighting units, utilizing a common communication system for coordination has absolutely zero chance in a long term combat with the US. The government has zero fear of such a situation.

However small tight knit groups acting independently, striking random targets and receiving intel as to what has been attacked by listening to the media reports of what other likeminded groups have done as means of "coordination" is impossible to fight effectively. The government is, and rightly should be, horrified of such small groups. You may recall the vilification of these groups in years past as "militias" and "paramilitary organizations."

Some here may even recall one such group named Hutaree. Few recall that the charges were dropped over time and their weapons and ammo were to be returned. Judges are supposed to follow the law as it is written after all. But if Feinstein's efforts are made into law, judges will have to follow that law instead unless ruled unconstitutional.

Until such time, each individual American must remember that "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." and "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." and that ultimately "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

Absolute strict interpretation of those three would seem to indicate that Feinstein's Bill as well as the old Clinton era Assault Weapons Ban have no legal standing with the slightest bit of scrutiny. And as far as loopholes go: not word has been mentioned about belt fed systems nor stripper clips or even the more "interesting" harmonica gun designs.

reply to post by Ahabstar

not word has been mentioned about belt fed systems nor stripper clips or even the more "interesting" harmonica gun designs.

Don't give 'em any ideas, they'll amend the bill before they pass it.

You have it correct, though. The loopholes will be there, no matter how hard they try to prevent it. We Americans can still be inventive when we have to be!

Civil War? Puhleeze.

First, despite any poll showing anything, there are just not that many Americans who care about guns. Of those that do, the overwhelming majority would cave to the Government. Finally, the fact that you think your little pop guns are worth two hoots against just a single M1 Abrams, a drone, etc, is almost cute.

All you nuts have are your MREs and blog outrage. It is kinda funny.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Ahabstar

 

not word has been mentioned about belt fed systems nor stripper clips or even the more "interesting" harmonica gun designs.

Don't give 'em any ideas, they'll amend the bill before they pass it.

You have it correct, though. The loopholes will be there, no matter how hard they try to prevent it. We Americans can still be inventive when we have to be!

Regardless of any loopholes you would be suprised to find out how many people think it is easy to convert semis into full auto. If only the government has the automatic sear then there is practically no way a gunsmith can reliably convert the weapon. I actually dislike automatics because they offer a false sense of security and burn up ammo too fast. Hand grenades would be a more effective weapon if they were allowed.

Originally posted by FeatherofMaat
Civil War? Puhleeze.

First, despite any poll showing anything, there are just not that many Americans who care about guns. Of those that do, the overwhelming majority would cave to the Government. Finally, the fact that you think your little pop guns are worth two hoots against just a single M1 Abrams, a drone, etc, is almost cute.

All you nuts have are your MREs and blog outrage. It is kinda funny.

And most of these people vote republican thinking that party gives two hoots about civil liberties and small government. The same party that starts wars with the flimiest of evidence(including false flags) and sells weapons to everyone, that is not dangerous to the status quo, for a buck. If you are dangerous to the status quo then you can keep your bucks and buy ice cream with artificial flavors.

The NRA is the biggest sell-out of all! They pretend everything and offer little substance.

As for the democrats they are just as hypocritical, if not more. But at least they finish wars rather than start them.

reply to post by L8RT8RZ


Except that all of the paperwork you are suggesting totally goes against "shall not be infringed".

Having children is my God-given right. I don't need to fill out paperwork to make sure I'm competent. I don't have to re-certify.

Defending myself with guns is my God-given right. I don't need to fill out paperwork to make sure I'm competent. I don't have to re-certify.

Being compelled to do either is a complete violation of my Second Amendment rights.

If we allow TPTB to legislate our inalienable rights, we have given them the power to take those away. What is legislated CAN be taken away.

Don't y'all get it?