The Smoking Gun That THEY WANT YOU TO KEEP! The REAL Story.

reply to post by goou111


That's a pretty obtuse POV in my opinion. Nowhere has anyone on ATS said that the subject is forbidden. The ONLY thing that has been an issue is that a few members persisted in their seeming obsession with posting the personal and real contact and identifying information about people who are NOT charged with any crimes into threads.

THAT is it.

If your next door neighbor goes insane tomorrow - do you want ATS posting your name, address, phone number, and license plate number - along with outlandish and totally unfounded claims about you possibly being culpable in the act?

Not that any of this is on topic - but I did expect somebody to go there. So I am replying in the hope of preventing a further derailment.

~Heff

reply to post by thesmokingman


Franky, mental health is the number one issue and not the perceived gun grab or any one of the tens of inane theories purporting to be the reason behind the massacre.

reply to post by goou111


Nibiru and such nonsense didn't kill tens of innocent lives.

The only fly I find in the pharmaceutical ointment here is that there are between 30-40 million people in the
US prescribed these meds.
Yet perhaps a dozen shootings in the US that are on this scale. And nearly all of the high profile events have
questionable circumstances as to the truth of the matter.

The contraindications and warning labels are regarding being suicidal not homocidal.
Are you suggesting the labels should be changed that a person is at risk of becoming a killing machine?

I think the evidence is in that it is more likely to cause apathy and emotional numbness and sharpen not
dull the original depression. At worst, the person would become so despondant and kill themself and suicide
not mass shootings are on the rise.

Or perhaps I am not willing to accept the notion that there are nearly 40 million mass shootings just waiting to happen.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by goou111

 

That's a pretty obtuse POV in my opinion. Nowhere has anyone on ATS said that the subject is forbidden. The ONLY thing that has been an issue is that a few members persisted in their seeming obsession with posting the personal and real contact and identifying information about people who are NOT charged with any crimes into threads.

THAT is it.

If your next door neighbor goes insane tomorrow - do you want ATS posting your name, address, phone number, and license plate number - along with outlandish and totally unfounded claims about you possibly being culpable in the act?

Not that any of this is on topic - but I did expect somebody to go there. So I am replying in the hope of preventing a further derailment.

~Heff

like i said i absolutly agree.. wasnt tryin to "go there" lolsry

my point was fearmongering in my opinion makes some people crazy. crazy people need meds

reply to post by PaperbackWriter


It is more to do with how that violence manifests itself. You are right, not all will see a gun and termination of life as the answer, but violence carries many forms.

reply to post by PaperbackWriter


Obviously only a small percentage of those taking these meds have psychotic breaks. I would imagine that only a small percentage of those who have psychotic breaks act out in this manner. But, yes, suicidal and homicidal ideations are directly sourced in the OP links - from several different experts and organizations.

The OP sources that Japan has added warnings about hostility and violence. Why the US hasn't is highly suspect to me - and I offer that it's because we have a system of legal bribery and big pharma is the biggest contributor in that field.

~Heff

IMO, they are to quick to put kids and adults on these kind of meds.

When I was a kid, there were kids who were a little hyper side. I may have been one of them. I was full of energy back then as most kids were.

We would either go outside and play for awhile, maybe not eat as much chocolate and all was good.

Seemed to work just fine back then.

I've only experienced using one of these types of drugs that was prescribed to help me quit smoking. Took it for 5 days. I have never been so paranoid in my life. I had the most terrible dreams, I was afraid to go to sleep at night. It was horrible. Others told me I wasnt acting right and I wasnt. I felt scared 24/7.

I stopped taking it and after 3 days and I was back to normal. Decided to use the best quit smoking devise on the planet and it worked. I simply made up my mind.

reply to post by goou111


And the first line of defence for a lot of medical practitioners is to issue your 'crazy people' meds, when a number of different alternatives are available. You can be 'crazy' by whoever's definition, but not necessarily need synthetic medication.

again heff not trying to derail your thread..just wondering how far down the wormhole the conspiracy goes...

is big pharma and sites like ats and youtube and glp and the discovery channel or history channel or natgeo or all the others in cahoots?

are they trying to make people crazy so they need meds?

reply to post by goou111


I appreciate that, and apologize for my terseness. It's been a rough week - and I don't do well with Holidays in general, so my sincere apology to you.

ATS is member drive content. Every staff member, aside from the owners, is a member who volunteers their time to help patrol the shores, as it were. So even our stuff is member content. I assume that some probably think that I post by script, or how I am told, or some such. The hard truth is that I have never been asked to post ( or not to ) in any manner that the entire site hasn't been asked ( as in this instance with the SH shootings ).

Thus ATS is a reflection of society more than an engine to drive it. At least that's how I see it. I suppose there could be an argument made that the Internet in general, including ATS, serve as a mechanism to create a lot more echo and resonance of these issues than previous generations had. But that would be as far as I'd see it.

If I had to take a blind swing, I'd say that humanity, especially in the western world, is undergoing a learning curve currently. A period of adjustment. Greed became King a few decades back and we've all been sliding downhill since. Working longer hours, for less pay, and far, far less stability and security.( job security, benefits, purchasing power, etc ). Suddenly most of us have woken into a world that is far, far less comfortable than it was even five or six years ago. That's a huge change, especially when it's so wide spread and common.

That stress is pushing the use of stress meds even higher. It's like some ever tightening downward spiral. Each pass gets smaller and smaller - faster and faster.

This, IMO, is us going down the drains.

~Heff

Well hef..............Damned fine job!

The only time i have participated in any of these killing spree threads is to say that we need to re-examine the state of Mental health in general. Of course you have nailed it on the head.


The great and wonderful society that created the Better Living through Chemistry ideology has now come full circle. The MED-CORP's as I call them have been inundating our society for 3 generations with wonder drug after wonder drug all to benefit only one thing.....the stock value!

Perhaps it is time for a RELEVANT discussion on the topic of Med-Corp's and what we, as citizens, can do to curtail the future poisoning of the next generations.

I feel that it is time for a Citizens Oversight Group dedicated to the protection of consumers. Not merely an extension of the FDA but rather a group designed for the purpose of enlightening the masses of the dangers of these chemicals.

Just my 2 pennies.

Peace and Merry Christmas

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by PaperbackWriter

 

Obviously only a small percentage of those taking these meds have psychotic breaks. I would imagine that only a small percentage of those who have psychotic breaks act out in this manner. But, yes, suicidal and homicidal ideations are directly sourced in the OP links - from several different experts and organizations.

The OP sources that Japan has added warnings about hostility and violence. Why the US hasn't is highly suspect to me - and I offer that it's because we have a system of legal bribery and big pharma is the biggest contributor in that field.

~Heff

Heff I agree with your thoughts and post: The revolving doors for bureaucratic B.S. not to mention out right vote buying is enough to make one wonder where it all leads. I can only assume many if not most who have done a brief bit of reading on how somethings get pushed through the FDA would be more inclined to be on your side with pom pom girls and everything; " Go Heff Go'! I have seen to many kids, mostly boys who are bored to tears in school act out and the first response is put them on drugs....Sick IMO.

Kinda bad when studies, with large data base results, are shown to have direct cause and effect yet there are still those who doubt the possibility. Salute Sir, well done.

I finally figured out to star and flag around here so you certainly deserve the ones I give freely; if that means anything.

I could be wrong but in almost every case there has been psychotropic drugs used either present or past. The guy who shot the fire fighters I have not heard one way or the other but, a man who kills a 92 year old grand mother with a hammer would qualify for some serious therapy and drugs in IMO.

You know whats SAD?

Its SAD that a nation has become so accepting to having many of their countrymen be under medication.
Its SAD that a nation is not trying to solve the root cause of the depression or other anxieties.

Should you or I get drugged because we feel SAD?
Well according to psychiatrists, yes.
Being SAD is having a medical condition that needs treatment.

Seasonal affective disorder (also called SAD) is a type of depression that occurs at the same time every year. If you're like most people with seasonal affective disorder, your symptoms start in the fall and may continue into the winter months, sapping your energy and making you feel moody. Less often, seasonal affective disorder causes depression in the spring or early summer.

Treatment for seasonal affective disorder includes light therapy (phototherapy), psychotherapy and medications. Don't brush off that yearly feeling as simply a case of the "winter blues" or a seasonal funk that you have to tough out on your own. Take steps to keep your mood and motivation steady throughout the year.

www.mayoclinic.com...

Isn't that SAD?

reply to post by Hefficide


This is exactly the reason I want to study neurology. Those drugs are messing us up pretty badly, and I think as you said, is a much bigger problem than just killing sprees. Just the general lack of judgment,courtesy, or compassion that these drugs induce make people feel invincibility and make people who are Type B personalities into Type A's, and that will never have a good outcome.

This is our job as well to help these people who do suffer mental distress, and comfort them that they are perfectly normal, that the anger they feel and the disdain for people is completely normal. We need to learn to counsel these people to learn how to live with their problems. Not suppress them. Which our society loves to do.

2nd year psych student here, I don't know if it's my naivety of the world, but I think I see a bright light for our society still, just give our generation time, we will find a solution.

I've been working on creating a thread this past week on this very subject but Heff beat me to it. So I will just add what I have as a compliment to this thread instead of starting another one.

This first article is from 2011 Psychology Today and written by medical journalist and Pulitzer Prize winner Robert Whitaker.

Psychiatric Drugs and Violence: A Review of FDA Data Finds A Link

This is the list of the 10 most dangerous drugs on the market at this time:

Antidepressants Top List of Most Violence-Inducing Drugs

It’s certainly worth paying heed to drug interactions such as violence and homicidal leanings, both as a patient and as a concerned parent, family member or friend. According to a 2010 study published in the journal PLoS One, half of the top 10 drugs disproportionately linked with violent behavior are antidepressants:

Varenicline (Chantix): The number one violence-inducing drug on the list, this anti-smoking medication is 18 times more likely to be linked with violence when compared to other drugs

Fluoxetine (Prozac): This drug was the first well-known SSRI antidepressant

Paroxetine (Paxil): Another SSRI antidepressant, Paxil is also linked with severe withdrawal symptoms and a risk of birth defects

Amphetamines: (Various): Used to treat ADHD

Mefoquine (Lariam): A treatment for malaria which is often linked with reports of strange behavior

Atomoxetine (Strattera): An ADHD drug that affects the neurotransmitter noradrenaline

Triazolam (Halcion): This potentially addictive drug is used to treat insomnia

Fluvoxamine (Luvox): Another SSRI antidepressant

Venlafaxine (Effexor): An antidepressant also used to treat anxiety disorders

Desvenlafaxine (Pristiq): An antidepressant which affects both serotonin and noradrenaline

LINK

Next is a link listing over 60 SSRI related incidents from 1988 to Nov 2011 It is cross indexed by date/drug/location/ect

SSRI Stories

Finally my last link has several resources for this topic and I will link that after some quotes to give you an idea.

Julian Whitaker, MD, founder of the Whitaker Wellness Institute and a thirty-year practitioner of alternative medicine, notes that the FDA does not include violent behavior on its black box warning labels because they are “blinded by their incestuous relationship with the pharmaceutical industry.”

Elsewhere, Dr. Whitaker discusses the common thread between the Columbine High School shooters, spree shootings at a community center in Los Angeles, two brokerage firms in Atlanta, and a printing plant in Kentucky: SSRI antidepressants. Every one of those shootings was perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil, or a related antidepressant drug. The medical records of Jared Lee Loughner, who killed six people and injured fourteen others, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, have not been released. What is clear is that he suffered from depression and had a sudden and dramatic change in personality around 2006. His behavior on January 8 is frighteningly similar to many who take SSRIs.

LINK


I'd like to thank Heff for the thread and I hope I have added some more information that is helpful to the discussion.

Originally posted by FoosM
You know whats SAD?
...
Isn't that SAD?

Well, as someone who suffers seasonal affective disorder AND who has been on and off AD's for the last 16 or so years, I can tell you that SAD is not something I've ever been prescribed AD's for.

This is the issue, people who go to a doctor feeling down or out of sorts, and who are given anti depressants as a first contact measure. It should be the last thing offered before an array of other options.

Zoloft almost killed me. By my own hands. I know very well I had mad thoughts constantly while on it, lost everyone I knew, destroyed life long friendships, and sent me into such a state that self destructing was an automatic path.

Most of the anti depressants I've been prescribed have left me feeling literally as if I was on an illicit substance but without the euphoria that accompanies it. And with a varied past I know about that... It's not something you ever dream of doing day after day after day, but here are doctors prescribing it to people who just feel a little bit off.

It took almost 16 years to get the right crap for me.

They absolutely know these drugs are dangerous. But they don't care. They'll harp on about how dangerous it is ##snip##... while giving you psychotic serotonin and dopamine cocktails that I can only imagine to someone who's never ever taken anything stronger than a cup of coffee, would make them feel like a reptile in a concrete jungle..

I posted a question on this link Another China School attack and questioned what might be a political motive behind the school attacks and it all leads to China's Mental Health Laws. Interesting how you bring up the same subject.

They absolutely know these drugs are dangerous. But they don't care. They'll harp on about how dangerous it is [snipped]... while giving you psychotic serotonin and dopamine cocktails that I can only imagine to someone who's never ever taken anything stronger than a cup of coffee, would make them feel like a reptile in a concrete jungle..

Yes, and then they blame it on the weed when it reacts with their chemical cocktails. Doctors will be out of a job the second they recommend natural therapies.

And you also have to look at the withdrawal effects of these medicines, that can cause the psychotic break as well. So I'm not really sure what to do, maybe feed them a placebo and then they will be just fine, and you tell them they have been living perfectly normal on a placebo. Now if you aren't a true crazy who needs to be admitted than you will accept this, and learn to live without the pills.

I admit, I take Wellbutrin, and it has been working really well for me. But my sisters best friend committed suicide while on Wellbutrin so idk, and I guess that's part of the problem, doctors are being forced to not do their jobs, and give people ticking time bombs as medication.

You got it Heff.

Its no surprise that almost every recent case of mass shooting has with it a shooter on or coming off a psychotropic drug.
When I looked further into this I saw how deep this rabbit hole went...and it's scary.

I encourage everyone to look into the Pharma / Psychiatry drug trade.