The Smoking Gun That THEY WANT YOU TO KEEP! The REAL Story.

As a healthcare professional I do agree that physicians are very quick to prescribe SSRI's to patients experiencing depression. As a matter of fact, physicians are quick to prescribe medications in general, not just SSRI's. On the other hand, patients are also quick to expect prescriptions from their docs. I see patients all the time that want an immediate fix to their problems, either pharmacologically, medical, and even surgical. Emergency Departments have turned into medical drive-thru's for patients. Patients show up with inappropriate and unrealistic expectations.

Now, let's back it up. As indicated by Heff, Big Pharma cares zilch about its consumers. Like the health industry as a whole, there is no incentive to heal patients and make them better. There's no money in health. A great example to present here is Aspirin...last year there was some research and studies into cancer and a specific treatment involving Aspirin. Not unexpectantly, Big Pharma announced that they would not invest in this treatment because the financial gain would be minimum, because obviously Aspirin is over-the-counter and easily affordable. Not suprisingly, I haven't heard much more about this.

The problem with SSRI's is that neuroscientists understand so little about the brain. We barely know anything about pharmacology, let alone neuro-pharmacology. In fact, if you grab a drug book, like Davis, or the PDR, and look up a medication and check its mechanism of action, most drugs will say, "Mechanism Unknown." Altering a person's brain chemistry is tricky business. SSRI's should be utilized in the short-term management of a variety of mental illnesses. SSRI's should not take the place of routine counseling and healthy lifestyle habits. SSRI's are not the fix that people want them to be. They should never be used alone, and never as a single-therapy modality. They can be especially dangerous the first several weeks of therapy, particularly before they become therapeutic.

reply to post by thesmokingman


I too have taken and currently take SSRI's. I agree they have made my life a lot better. I have never had any outbursts. I think its when people try stopping them cold turkey that they have an issue.

Great post, Heff!

I'm on 20 mg fluoxetine, and I have noticed lately that I seem more aggressive than usual, along with other related problems. As some people, and I am regularly told this by my own psychiatrist/psychologist, have said that it all matters on how your body reacts, sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't.

I really wish I could quit my meds, but on the other hand, at least I'm not shut away in a psych ward or hospital.

I watched this the other night and the next morning on the news they were saying if your teen is stressed or depressed have them talk to a psychiatrist. Get them in there so they can give them drugs. The video is about one mother who was told to put her son in some drugs and with in 6 months committed suicide and her search for answers. It is a bit dramatic but then again it was meant to hit home. One thing she found was 9 out of the 13 school shooting the shooters were on some kind of psychiatric drug.

I am sorry to disagree with you Heff as I have an immense amount of respect for you and your posts but I must digress. These shootings all have one thing in common and it is not the unification of American sheep chanting for better drugs, it's a concerted begging plea from the lesser of the heard in a grand scale whimpering.... Please take the guns, please take the guns, we will be safer, we will be safer.

I do not wan't it to be as such but alas, I can not help it, it is what it is and what it is exactly is short order "shoot from the hip" legislation on firearms that will be passed to thundering applause that we can all breathe a little better knowing we are safer. I'm sure big Pharma has alot to gain and it is an added bonus but as illustrated very clearly by fast and furious, they have a very big agenda with burning the second amendment one step at a time.

Is it really a conspiracy at this point?

reply to post by Hefficide


The answer to these violent psychopaths are obviously more guns and less mental health care.
Glad somebody had the balls to say it. *sarcasm*

Although Bupropion (Wellbutrin, also known as Zyban when used to treat smoking addiction) allowed me to become functional and clear my head again during a time when I was completely depressed to the point of total inactivity and dysfunction, and curbed by appetite which, as a side effect of my depression, had made me gain a dangerous amount of weight... I do strongly agree that both the diagnosis of depression (as well as other mental health conditions) and the prescribing of psychoactive drugs are far too easily and unrigorously given.

They give these substances out like candy now. (They do the same thing with synthetic opioid painkillers, incidentally, which can be highly addicting.) Anyone who feels down is often called depressed and given pills, sometimes whether they meet the clinical criteria or not, and regardless of severity. Even if every physician referred a patient with symptoms to a clinical psychiatrist and had them properly assessed (I mean true DSM assessment and analysis) it would still be arguable as to whether it should happen as much as it would. But they don't. Doctors will often simply conclude - irrespective of their own background or knowledge in psychology or psychiatric medicine - that someone has condition X and should receive prescription Y. It's irresponsible in the extreme in my opinion. They tried to do it to me, and I insisted on seeing an experienced psychiatric clinician at the very least, and some serious time spent on analyzing my issues before just squeezing me into a box and giving me some pills.

Now, that doesn't mean that these substances don't have therapeutic benefit to people. As I said, Bupropion helped me a great deal at a time in my life when I really needed it. And there have been subsequent times when it becomes necessary again. Nor does it mean that mental health care is not important or something we don't need more of in my opinion. The lack of good, scientifically rigorous, comprehensive mental health care, as opposed to pop culture and casual mental health care, is the problem in my view.

Take my use of Bupropion. It's just one tool in a broader array of approaches to dealing with some issues I have, though. It isn't a perennial magic bullet. And it is most assuredly not for everyone. Certainly not as many people as I know it or something like it is being prescribed for, in my opinion. Especially since - and this is just one example for one drug - it can have side effects like elevated blood pressure. They tried to give it to me once when I was overweight and had hypertension. I had to actually point out to them that side effect, and only then did they say, "Oh wow, you're right, you can't take this until your blood pressure is under control!" Now imagine that attitude being applied to a child or adolescent, whose hormonal and neurotransmitter balances are still developing, along with their cognitive and emotional functions. There are few long term studies on the effects of these substances, and some which strongly implicate them - as Heff points out clearly - in increased instances of violence, aggression, psychosis, and even, paradoxically, suicide. We need more and better mental health care in this country, but in my view it is essential that it be scientific, comprehensive, and tempered with caution. The mind is an extremely amorphous, difficult to predict and control part of our overall wellbeing.

There seems to be a casual, lackadaisical attitude on the part of medical doctors that stems from a perplexing, almost paradoxical combination of on one hand not taking mental health and medication thereof seriously, and on the other hand aggressively pursuing the pharmacology route, while believing that everything approved by the FDA in succession must be an ever more safe and effective product. I have to strongly suspect that the lobbying mentioned herein has a powerful influence at some point in the process of determining exactly which drugs become first line treatments, and which drugs doctors are most likely to prescribe.

It's like everything else. Why are histamine and leukotrine inhibitors the first line drugs for asthma and allergies when alternatives exist? Why are alcohol and tobacco legal and viewed favorably by society and the law (apart from driving while drinking of course,) while medicinal cannabis, despite being legal in many states, is demonized? Everything - and the perception of everything - is driven by policy, which in turn is driven by lobbyists. The policy needs to change to one that emphasizes science and caution (and in my personal experience at least, fewer quick fixes; a return to longer term therapy rather than the bandaid approach) rather than immediacy and psycho-pharmacology.

Peace.

I should be sleeping right now, big day ahead in my job after the christmas break with an early start, I feel though I can largely contribute to this ...little... topic with my own personal experience, one that ive shared with many of my closest friends as a general warning, OPs post does show me exactly what I thought happened to me seems to be happening to others

Firstly, I am a 31 year old male.. I dont have any problems as such.. other than being made redundant from work and having a physical disability that doesnt effect my life in most ways.. Ive never had a mental health problem, I dont smoke, I rarely drink and im a generally happy person in life..

a few years back I was made redundant from a job which given the local job market at the time had me out of work for some years, happily I found a job in time.. but before I started it given id been out of work for some while, and honestly away from people.. I simply asked my doctor at the time for "something that would make start work a little easier"

The drug i was given as 100mg of sertaline, as far as im aware its zoloft .. an anti depressant.. I figured i'd give these things a trial.. just wanting to start work without any anxiety and being able to focus better..

Firstly I noticed odd things, as if I couldnt think. there was a black barrier in my mind when I tried to picture something, I thought it was odd.. but not alarming.. hey.. not being able to daydream would be great.. prevent bordem. so I went with it.. a few days after that.. well.. I discovered it was nearly impossible to becoming sexually aroused and if I did.. the act of completing sex.. took almost an hour before anything finally happened.. which I also thought was not bad.. certainly odd.. but not bad as a whole..

over the next few days a weeks, my emotions stripped away as if they were melting ice on a hotplate..I had to "act" in emotional situations.. knowing exactly what I was supposed to do and feel.. yet having no connection to it.. no feeling.. at this time the effects of the tablets were well advanced and the feeling of concern I should have felt, just didnt matter anymore.. I wasnt pleased with it. but I wasnt uncomfortable with it.. something I found later to be an effect in itself

Looking back with a clear mind, alarming symptoms started to present themselves, I became...quite simply. a machine, PC games I once enjoyed such as physics based things and fun games.. gave way to first person shooters even the lesser serious ones like battlefield 1942.. where the effects of the tablets made me an extremely focused killer.. able to keep calm, locked into the situation. and thats all that mattered.. every move every shot in games was a well calculated thing.. there was no joy, no happyness.. but I excelled at anything like that.. at the time I joined a gaming clan online and became a quite high because of it

Emotions wise in the real world I noticed that the one emotion I did have.. and didnt have to "act" like the others. was simply. hate.. anger.. and without the moral restraints of feeling sad, regret and guilt.. im quite happy to say I was limited to becoming a self contained, quiet self propelled ... oven.. I wore black clothes, my music of choice became anything. negative.. and I drove around in my electric scooter in my own total disregarding anything and everything in the world.. I simply didnt have any capacity to care...

Fortunately my disability and my country of origin prevented me getting my hands on my weaponry, not that i'd use it, I had no motivation as such to commit violence.. but when people did do me wrong, I snapped.. terribly.. because I had no regret.. no restraint.. and anything said or done while feeling rage and anger the one emotion I could feel.. felt as "right" as the most pleasant and humane thing on this earth.. thats the only way i could explain it..

my wakeup call came when my girlfriend at the time, noticed the change in me as something extremely negative to our relationship.... she'd lost.. me.. I simply wasnt the same person.. or any person at all, after months of telling me I never needed these tablets, I stoped taking them.. the withdrawls were hell.. I went through weeks of cold sweats, swishing sounds in my head that'd wake me up at night.. red flashing lights.. feeling as though I was drunk constantly.. and as my emotions started to seep back into my mind.. I would cry at the most simple sadness of a movie, laugh with complete uncontrolable laughter at anything that was funny.. I was a mess.. my body was adjusting to emotions again..

but the most disturbing thing looking back.. was how "right".. "normal".. violence felt.. as if its as simple as taking the garbage out or giving to charity.. it is truly dangerous stuff. im glad I didnt do anything wrong during my time on the stuff.. and keep in mind, I didnt have a problem when I started taking it.. and I was just taking it to make work easier.. its that damn easy

I have to agree 100%. I took zoloft for about 6 months. While on this drug I felt like a zombie with no emotions. I found it to be in my best intrest to stop taking it. When I stopped about two days after I felt angry at every little thing. Well needless to say the wrong person pushed my buttons, and I threw him a beating. I spent 3 days in jail before I could bond out. And I got a good lawyer so I only had to serve 60 hours community service. Point to the story. Don't quit cold turkey. Also taking ssri's are no excuse in the court of law. Even if they are the #1 reason for the actions they cause.

I have been off Zoloft for almost 7 months and life couldn't be better.

reply to post by Hefficide


You brought up an excellent point Heff .

It would appear also that big pharma is alive and well in china too adding to the school stabbings there . Pharma in china granted that we don't have to live is such poor living conditions such as that of china .

Mind you how many youths out there are of antidepressants because they can't handle the stress . life is hard and stressful no matter how old a person is but to resort to big pharma to help one cope with life (as long as one can afford to pay for their drugs) seem illogical to me when we hear the same reasoning from these illegal street drug addicts .

There is a serious social decline going on in the world and the root of all evil is money . It always been money , If the NWo existed that is all they care about is money and we are the slaves who just take it with out question because some dude in a white coat said it will make all our problems go away and we fall for it in the hopes that our lives will be easier .

Most counties won't even touch mental health issues with a ten thousand foot pole . Governments are cooperate entities And like every other one they will smile and hold out their hand for more after they just bleed your last dollar . Governments now days are not in it to represent the voice of the people no no no They are in it for themselves and their own self interests .

To me the real conspiracy is why this rise of these young school kids attacks .

I've noticed many people on this forum are jumping to conclusions.

Sure, maybe the meds sent this kid off and killed a bunch of people.

He also could have been MK'd.

We should accept all possibilities. The thing that worries me most on this forum is people saying your 'disgracing the families' if you bring up the possibility of this being more then meets the eye. This sounds exactly like people telling you not to investigate 9/11 because your hurting the families.

What a huge load of BS. If anything, searching for the truth would be honoring the dead. Turning over on your belly and accepting what the TV tells you is disgracing the people who died.


Why is it that people think these spree killers cannot be mind controlled? You guys do know that mind control is very much alive right? It dates back to ancient Egypt. Have none of you guys heard of Project Monarch and Joseph Mengele? MK-ULTRA? Timothy Mcveigh? Sirhan Sirhan?

If you guys are interested about any of this stuff, I would recommend looking at the site vigilantcitizen.com...

Tons of information, and a great forum. Well anyway happy holidays.

In a thread here




I wrote this.

"I have a theory.

(Pardon if this has already been explored)

Drug prescriptions for ADD, ADHD, etc. have a direct impact on the brains of developing teens and pre-teens.

Any time you apply a neurotrophic, neuro-specific compound to a developing brain, you end up with behaviours that are outside the bell curve.

I actually see this as a major cover-up by pharma and the medical community as well as the educational system.

They drug and pacify "hyper" children so that they will fit in.

These children then grow to adulthood with brains that did not develop normally.

Just my 2 cents."


We've not seen the end to violence by a long shot!

Look this is much simpler then most of you are making it out to be. America is in the way of the formation of a New World Order and the more citizens you have running around with guns the harder it is to force them to roll over when trying to implement this new global system. The reason America is so far in debt is no accident and the world in general has been put in this financial situation in order to create an environment of desperation to force more control into the hands of a few powerful individuals. Problem, Reaction, Solution, the Hegelian Dialectic is used over and over to deceive the population. They dress it up with humanitarian causes and when the public doesnt play ball they create the events they need to spur the public in the direction they want. How is it that many of you refuse to look at this for what it is? "Conspiracy Theorists" have been warning the public of this for over a century. H G Wells even threw you a bone when he wrote.

"Countless people will hate the New World Order
and will die protesting against it."

-- H G Wells
The New World Order (1940)

Taking guns away from citizens will ensure a smoother transition into their global world order. This is why the term war on terror was changed to war against fundamental extremism. It will allow them to target fundamental Christians at a future time when the US is collapsing financially. Blaming militia groups and fundamental Christian groups as being mentally unstable and a danger to national security. Do you really think they want 30 thousand drones in the sky within the next decade to look for terrorist walking down the streets of the US as if they would have neon signs on their backs? You see its really simple. You create a war on terror then tell the public that you need to spy on your own citizens to protect them when in truth you're trying to catalog anyone you might feel is a threat to your plans for a New World Order. Then after the US breaks out in revolution and you have rounded up all the dissenters it makes it easier to sell your One World Religion. I can see it now, words of peace and security and rebuilding stronger then before and the public will eat it right up, not knowing that it was all planned in advance in order to enslave them. You see this isn't just about power but about the hearts and souls of mankind, you cant force a religious deception on the worlds population, they have to believe it willingly and for that you need a Strong Delusion.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Hefficide


When I consider your " Big Pharma " angle Heff, it tends to get rearranged to look like this.

Fact- The UN wants a disarmed US population.

Fact - The U.S. gov. has this population from the upper middle class and down, completely stressed out ! And I know by what I see everyday, they don't give a crap. And if you've been paying attention ? You should know
why ?

The guidestones
The assassinations of the sixties
Kent state
Floride
Okla. City bombing
Waco Tx.
Voting fraud
911
Political, economic and financial corruption by tyranical design with " bail-outs "
Unemployment with no end in site and in the face of hyper inflation
Obama care
Big pharma
Monsanto
MK Ultra
Dead Bin Laden, no body
Birth certificate
Seal team 6
On and on from the current mass shootings to the obvious temerity of every lie from hell to breakfast.

The results of which are a public one half in total paranoid distrust of it's gov. The other half completely and most of them willingly brainwashed..I mean come on now ? We can't be that far from being so doped up, stressed out, paranoid, diabetic, broke, hungry, homeless and then even brutalized by a law enforcement that come to find
out ? Was never there for our protection in the first place. Let alone respect our rights guaranteed. You are right tho. Pretty soon they'll have us so jacked up. They won't have to worry about taking our guns by force. They'll pluck them from our cold dead hands after we all kill each other with 'em.

Sorry but things aren't looking so good Heff.

Reading this thread has made me upset to the point that, by the time I read the 4th comment, I almost x'ed the screen out.

--------------------

But I needed to continue reading so I could comment because:

This thread NEEDS to stay on the front page. It cannot get buried amongst other threads within this category. Please PLEASE make this thread an all time favorite on ATS's most popular threads so it can be conveniently and easily found for all current and future members of the community.

The topic of SSRI's, along with some select psychotropic medications, are HANDS DOWN 1 of the top 3 worst problems in this entire country, aside from foreign conflicts (war) and general economy/financial crisis IMO, Oh, and I am not including government hypocrisy, greed and corruption in that list of 3 as I consider those to be in a different realm of problems (insert name of realm here)

Ahem,

These drugs are DIRECTLY and SOLELY causing episodes of extreme spontaneous violence towards self and/or others.

As I know this topic personally hits home to many around the country, whether it be from experiences during your own use or witnessing the affects it has had on a friend or family member, it also indeed bothers me personally. "Personally." I obviously won't go into detail or explanation because of privacy, but I know from first hand accounts that the devastating behavior these meds induce upon the user is a travesty, it's not only dangerous, but it has got to be criminal. These catastrophically violent behaviors, if I may repeat, are DIRECTLY CAUSED by these medications!

*Not family problems
*Not pre-existing psychiatric issues
*Not bullying
*Not emotional distress

--whatever, you get it, the list can go on.

I wish there was a way to stop, and if not stop, at least marginally disrupt big pharma's drug-pushing, without having to go all "Erin Brockovich" on their asses.


S&F+ this isn't just a, or any thread, this is a critical notice to all who live in this country


-83

reply to post by Hefficide


The reason there is heavy use of legal drugs is because we have abysmal nutrition. Our diet consists of Caffeine, sugar, grease and salt. All of which are drenched in additives and preservatives.

People go to the doctor and they are told that they need to change their eating habits/lifestyle but instead they ask for drugs and the big phama encourages it.

People under estimate nutrition and go off on tangents like drugs. yes there are drugs put into our environment but we put more junk in our bodies than anybody willingly.

the Big Elephant in the room is actually the food companies who lobby the government to allow them to feed us crap.

That gets you sick which then sends you to big pharma to fix what ails you.

www.ssristories.com...

check out the link for a database of 1988-2011 ssri related massacres, really puts things in perspective.

ssri's are definetly responsible on the grand scale. big pharma's got a lot of explaining to do, but as usual they will just buy their way out of it.

merry xmas

Just to clarify...

reply to post by Hefficide


SSRI's (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) are not the issue, the lack of control over how they are handed out, monitored and ceased is. Also would like to point out some of the drugs you mentioned are SNRI's (Serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors).
I must point out that the people (including myself previously) that are on these medications are on them for a reason to start with. I have experienced the anger when i came off my SNRI's cold turkey (AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE!).
I have not experienced any problems with SSRI's, in fact found them comparatively effective with less side effects.

I have found a lot of benefit from these medications and no longer require them, however they are not for everyone and any good doctor will tell you sometimes the right balance needs to be found. These are not a one pill fits everybody solution, and some people really just need to try alternative methods of treatment before resorting to misusing these potentially dangerous drugs (In the wrong hands).

I was prescribed paxil and discontinued its usage due to fits of rage...it was very scary!!!