A list of already debunked theories, re: Sandy hook

Originally posted by CosmicBob
reply to post by Tecumte

 

You're assuming that the government has some kind of nefarious scheme in place to disarm everyone

No I'm really not assuming it, actually alot of people that hang around those All Seeing Eye types openly admit it and attempt to legislate it. Would they kill for it? You tell me. Aren't you just a 'little' bit suspicious that country after country is being disarmed based on nearly idetical MO 'lone gun nut shooters". It's working isn't it?

Besides, what is so bad about a more stringent control policy on weapons? If we hope to move to a more civilised society with less barbarism and violence, do you not think that guns would be less needed?

You know Bob, actually I haven't really involved myself much in the whole 'gun control' debate, I haven't really studied it. But obviously I believe citizens have aright to defend themselves from violent harm, using reasonable means, if the person trying to get into my home has a 357, and he's coming in my window or trying to kick down my door, well I'm likely going to something adequate to stop the intrusion, I can't wait (where I live) for Big Nanny to arrive to 'save' me. It may mean seconds, not minutes (or a half hour or longer) Others are probably in similar circumstances. But I don't have a problem with Reasonable (IMo) laws,

My point is, what I have inferred from reading a lot of these conspiracy theory posts and comments is that people are terrified the government (or insert nefarious secret society name here) is constantly out to get them. Furthermore, I infer that this phenomenon might be caused from watching a few too many Hollywood movies. Conspiracy theorists love to flock together because it feeds their confirmation bias when someone else can say, "Yes, this does seem weird, therefore it must be conspiracy".

Well actually I'll have to disagree here. First and I don't mean to be rude, but there are several openly stated agendas that most students of history (and the present) are quite familiar with (world wide gun control just one). I wouldn't say most people are terrified of these (conspiracies). Or that they get these ideas from watching "hollywood" movies. No actually that's usually the very one's that RARELY question and just accept whatever they see on their T.V. as coming direct from god that believe in any 'offical theory'. And people like myself come to these sights because I see the IQ and talents of (most) people here and their open minded ability to think analytically and creatively greatly exceeds most of the non net status quo. Some of the sharpest minds and greatest voices IMo are now out here on the blogs. Isn't that great?

This is why in an earlier post, I suggested that people rather approach conspiracy theories by emulating what scientists do.

Sure no harm in that. Each person usually has something to contribute, we all have different skill sets and talents, that's what I think makes these blogs so insightful and a group effort such a usually good thing. People asking REAL questions, ones the media won't (or can't) ask. I think the media's (current) conspiracy theory as regards A.L. and Sandy Hook is absolutely a disaster. People on here have done much better homework.

As for the official reports not being released on your time, understand that is not how the system works.

Oh belive me I know. Sometimes they lock up the info for 40 years and at the end the people still won't get the truth. But maybe this will be different. I'm though waiting for the part where they tell the people the cameras all stopped working at the same time,,,,just like at Waco

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I get you. There can be a bunch of confusion in the beginning of an event such as the one you described. However the police and fire audio from this event was a first hand account of what was happening within minutes of the arrival of the police. Those transmissions are what have caused all of my suspicions. Yes there were many inaccurate msm reports in the beginning and still are for that matter, we don't really know. I think the press conferences and the emergency transmissions are the events that cause me the most pause. As well as, the immediate political response; that raises many red flags.

So I agree with you in you summation, but there is much more to this case. Take care.

Well, the initial radio calls that I listened to, that mentioned a teacher seeing TWO suspects, make me wonder if we have all the facts. Just the media reports; I might not wonder. That, added to other variables, and I do wonder.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Not sure who you refer to with all of that. I have heard a lot of people discuss what TPTB might be doing, bot haven't heard anyone comment on specific actions, or call anyone names for not planning such. What I have seen is people talking about getting all the facts out to as many as possible, so that more are informed.

With the utmost of respect, I see it frequently and twice today. Calling people out to fight our government and how the reason we are in this situation is because it is our fault for not fighting. I really resent that.

I actually saw a post with someone claiming that people were being called names for not planning some sort of "fight" or something. VERY odd behavior, that. Seemed like a bait-post, designed to make people inclined to some sort of violence get all offended, and say things that could get them in trouble. Someone else on site posted a link to this list -
list -
that talks about various methods of that sort. For years, I have NOT seen much of anything like that on this site, but recently, I have seen a handful. You have to wonder!

Reply to post by sconner755

I figured as much. That is a decent straw man too. But that is about enough trolling. You have failed to derail discussion about the apparent 26 survivors of Ms. Soto's class, and the statements made by the families that support this number.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

A happy New Year to you Tecumte and to everyone here at ATS!

Thanks for your response. I am happy that we can politely disagree on a few things. This is why I enjoy interacting on this site.

To address a few of the points you made:

No I'm really not assuming it, actually alot of people that hang around those All Seeing Eye types openly admit it and attempt to legislate it. Would they kill for it? You tell me. Aren't you just a 'little' bit suspicious that country after country is being disarmed based on nearly idetical MO 'lone gun nut shooters". It's working isn't it?

Your guess here would be as good as mine. It's not something that can easily be generalised but as I'm sure you know, there are a few people out there that lean a bit too far over that edge and are likely to do something radical. It depends on how deep in the idea the person is. I'm not particularly certain that what you speak of when it comes to country after country being disarmed is necessarily an accurate statement. The only place I have heard of in the world that has this "lone gun nut shooter massacre" phenomenon is the US so from my point of view, I don't draw any logical conclusions here. Sure, I'm not saying it only happens in the US, because it may very well have happened elsewhere in the world, but is just not as much of a media frenzy as in the US. Could you perhaps give me examples of other countries you know that have been disarmed based on identical MOs?

But obviously I believe citizens have aright to defend themselves from violent harm, using reasonable means, if the person trying to get into my home has a 357, and he's coming in my window or trying to kick down my door, well I'm likely going to something adequate to stop the intrusion, I can't wait (where I live) for Big Nanny to arrive to 'save' me.

I guess this is a chicken or the egg scenario and you do make a valid point on the matter. Conversely, however, my view is that perhaps with stricter regulations in place, the probability of the scenarion you put forth drops. I would personally prefer to live in that kind of world, however idealistic it may seem.

No actually that's usually the very one's that RARELY question and just accept whatever they see on their T.V. as coming direct from god that believe in any 'offical theory'.

We'll have to agree to disagree here I'm afraid as I guess we have different perspectives on this. The conspiracies orbiting the SHE tragedy all have been seeded in some form of media or other and a lot of the time don't come from reliable sources or are distortions of what really happened. Then via word of mouth, a game of telephone is played until the story ends up so embellished and sensationalised, looking nothing like what it was originally. A lot of folk were extremely quick to jump on to the CT bandwagon without critically examining these things in a rational and reasonable manner first. Don't get me wrong though, my above sentiments largely apply to those who populate the mass forums and are not as reasoned as those I have found here on ATS. Questioning the status quo (from all angles) is always a valid and necessary action for a democratic society and I am happy to play my part in it whether I am for or against the positions being put forward.

And people like myself come to these sights because I see the IQ and talents of (most) people here and their open minded ability to think analytically and creatively greatly exceeds most of the non net status quo. Some of the sharpest minds and greatest voices IMo are now out here on the blogs. Isn't that great?

Absolutely! We might disagree on certain things but this is one place I am happy to say I have thoroughly enjoyed my interactions with the folk here. There is an element of reason here and voices of dissent (most of the time) are not chased away. This is why I have stuck around because there are smart people here who I can reason and discuss with.

HI everyone!!! Recently joined this forum due to this specific tragedy.

I have watched a video on youtube that rocked me off my chair.
There is NO DOUBT that something was staged, the firetrucks, ambulances and everyone were packed at the fire station INSTEAD of the school. The video even shows a SIGN that said "Sandy Hook School" even though from google maps it is the fire station. Also the little girl in the photo who should be deceased took a photo with OBAMA, which is a big mess up. The girl happened to be in "Robbie"s "family".




www.youtube.com...

At about 4 minutes you can see the school vs fire station. At 12 minutes you can see the photo comparison.

What's going on here?

Originally posted by peashooter
HI everyone!!! Recently joined this forum due to this specific tragedy.

I have watched a video on youtube that rocked me off my chair.
There is NO DOUBT that something was staged, the firetrucks, ambulances and everyone were packed at the fire station INSTEAD of the school. The video even shows a SIGN that said "Sandy Hook School" even though from google maps it is the fire station. Also the little girl in the photo who should be deceased took a photo with OBAMA, which is a big mess up. The girl happened to be in "Robbie"s "family".




www.youtube.com...

At about 4 minutes you can see the school vs fire station. At 12 minutes you can see the photo comparison.

What's going on here?

I'm going to comment before this turns into something,

The firestation has been confirmed as the staging area....(although the "why" is a little skectchy)...that has been admitted.

The sign at the fireststion is at the beginning of Dickison Dr. the road into the school. It is at the intersection. The same place the firestation is. There is nothing anomalous about it.

The girl in the photo theory is complete speculation and easily explained in other ways. It is far better left alone considering how provocative it appears to be for some people and because of how much actual anomalous information there is.

Welcome to the discussion...but please, take the time to examine available threads.

reply to post by swansong19


I'm almost done with the timelines, in the police recording you can hear them informing everyone on duty of the staging area. The timeline I have so far is indeed interesting. Give me 2 hours to go through the rest.

Originally posted by destination now
Or maybe the press just spoke to some woman, decided to assume she was the principal and then googled the principal's name and put that to the interview they had...

That's not such a stretch of the imagination, is it?

It's a stretch when the paper, in retraction, stated specifically that the person identified themselves as Dawn Hochsprung to them. :p

I hope that answers your question, and raises another.

Since I can't post this in my own thread....I'd like to share something here I noticed tonight that I can't believe I didn't notice before.

This is the widely circulated aerial photo of Sandy Hook Elementary on Dec 14. This photo is creditted to Michael McAndrews a photog for the Hartford Courant.

Scroll through the pics at the following link for detailed accreditation.

www.guelphmercury.com...




Now take a look at this same picture paying special attention to the areas highlighted. I will give you my impressions.




Dark Blue

A table(s) covered with a cloth.

Light Blue

A bus. Not a school bus but a tour bus. Note the raised rear level. Also note this are is where the bulk of human activity is.

Yellow

One of those kids is.......FLYING A KITE

Edit: I have been provided a high res reverse angle pic and it is, indeed, a firetruck. But I still contend one of those kids is flying a kite.

If anyone has a high res copy of the posted pic I wouldn't mind being proven wrong in the slightest.

Forgot something EDIT

reply to post by swansong19


What's that further up in the right hand corner of the pic? Is that possibly a second kite for the other person?

October?

Originally posted by swansong19


If anyone has a high res copy of the posted pic I wouldn't mind being proven wrong in the slightest.

edit on 2-1-2013 by swansong19 because: (no reason given)

Here's a thought.

Maybe you should begin by trying to prove yourself RIGHT before posting more ridiculous conjecture and asking people to prove you wrong.


Wildly Narcissistic Conjecture Rating 9

Originally posted by shasta9600
reply to post by swansong19

 

What's that further up in the right hand corner of the pic? Is that possibly a second kite for the other person?

October?

It was my initial thought...but it's too difficult to tell. Unlike the more colorful one I highlighted.

RECORDING (1)
RECORDING (2)
RECORDING (3)
RECORDING (4)

Timeline Nr.1 -09:35AM - 10:36AM

09:35AM - Recording at 23:00: “Sandy Hook School, Caller’s indicated she thinks someone is shooting in the building.” (2)

09:36AM - Recording at 23:45: "Sandy Hook School, the front glass has been broken out, they're unsure why" (2)

09:37AM - Recording at 24:23: "All units, the individual I have on the phone is continuing to hear what HE believes to be gunshots" (2)

09:38AM - Recording at 25:24: "The shooting appears to have stopped. The school is in lock down.” (2)
09:38AM - Recording at 25:56: “We’ll stage up the SWAT and go from there.” (2)

09:39AM - Recording at 26:13: “Reports that teachers saw two shadows running, past the building, past the gym, which will be rear..58 they're shooting.” (2)

09:39AM - Recording at 26:29:“Yeah, we got ‘em. Their coming at me. Gun point” (2)

09:40AM - Recording at 6:20: “Shooter’s apparently still shooting in office area. Dickerson Drive.” (1)

09:40AM - Recording at 6:47: “Troop 8 personnel, take Exit 10, left on 34, turn on Riverside Drive. Make sure you have your vests on. (1)

09:40AM - Recording at 26:41: "Police officer screams something I can't understand (INPUT) (2)

09:40AM - Recording at 26:51: "56 this is it" (what is code 56?) (2)

09:40AM - Recording at 27:12: “Sandy Hook School, You’ll need two ambulances at this time.” (2)

09:41AM - Recording at 28:07: "(Not clear need input) last known gunshots from the .. to the left (2)

09:41AM - Recording at 28:30: "I got him proned out" (2)

09:42AM - Recording at 29:28:"Last known shots were in the front of the school" (2)

09:43AM - Recording at 29:35: "872-YEO" (2)

09:43AM - Recording at 00:50: “We have one female in Room 1 who has gunshot wound to the foot.” (3)

09:44AM - Recording at 01:41: "Partie in custody?" (3)

09:46AM - Recording at 12:16: “We’ve got an injured person in Room 9 with numerous gunshot wounds.” (1)

09:46Am - Recording at 02:59:"We got bodies here" (3)

09:47AM - Recording at 04:17: "Copy, we're moving out to the rear, Sandy Hook's Fire Department Dickerson (3)

09:47AM - Recording at 04:39: "Setting up a perimeter front rear." (3)

09:48AM - Recording at 05:11: "Might possibly need a second medic" (3)

09:49AM - Recording at 14:24:"(can't understand first words) ...on the building (1)

09:49AM - Recording at 14:59: “Negative on description. Shots were fired about three minutes ago.” (which would be 9:46AM) (1)

09:50AM - Recording at 16:34: "Secure area on Riverside" (1)

09:51AM - Recording at 08:35:"We got one suspect down" (3)

09:53AM - Recording at 19:16: “Newtown’s reporting one suspect down. The building has now been cleared.” (1)

09:53AM - Recording at 09:50: "You're going to stage with the EMS crews at Sandy Hook Fire Department" (3)

09:56AM - Recording at 12:36: “Be advised, we have multiple weapons. Including one rifle and a shotgun” (3)

09:58AM - Recording at 15:29: "Standby units at the school we're conducting interior search at this time" (3)

09:58AM - Recording at 15:35: "(same voice as above) "? the life of Adam?" (3)

10:00AM - Recording at 26:25: "33 to HQ Motor vehicle stop" (1)

10:00AM - Recording at 17:21: "Team up on the roof and clear the roof" (3)

10:01AM - Recording at 27:00: "722ZHA"(1)

10:03AM - Recording at 29:28: "Bringing a group of young kids out the front" (1)

10:03AM - Recording at 20:06:"What is the number of ambulances you require? Response:"They don't know, they're not giving us a number" (3)

10:04AM - Recording at 30:16: "We have a staging area for students and personnel and the parents outside near the street (can't understand rest)" (1)

10:05AM - Recording at 01:35: "1:35 Connecticut 872YEO Possible suspect vehicle"

10:06AM - Recording at 01:55: "Squad 3 to HQ I have run the operator He has Fl and Conn license, Name DOB

10:11AM - Recording at 28:16: "I got multiple ambulance personnel coming in now, can we create that staging area, command area, within the fire eh Sandy Hook School parking area?" (3)

10:12AM - Recording at 28:26: "Negative Newtown, any ambulances coming in will have to stage at Sandy Hook firehouse and we'll follow up" (3)

10:21AM - Recording at 16:51 - "Be aware that PIO (Public Information Officer) knows something is going on here" (4)

10:22AM - Recording at 17:50:- "? ..Echo Oscar, Black Honda (4)

10:25AM - Recording at 20:31:- "We got a large group coming out the front door"

10:29AM - Recording at 24:18: "Roger, closet in the kitchen, it has some victims"

10:32AM- Recording at 26:51: "We are forming up to do a double check of the building"

10:32AM - Recording at 26:56:"One of the places is in the kitchen, there is a teacher and 18 kids there

10:36AM - Recording at 30:00:"Newtown and all responders on scene, the scene is not active

Note the numbers on the end of each entry (1) (2) (3) or (4) refer to the recording listed above. The last entries without a number all refer to recording (4) , I had no more characters left in my post.

Timeline 2 will follow at a later time.

Can someone please listen to :

09:40AM - Recording at 26:41: "Police officer screams something I can't understand (INPUT) (2)

Maybe somebody else has an idea what he could possibly be saying, so that I can edit my post.

Originally posted by swansong19
Since I can't post this in my own thread....I'd like to share something here I noticed tonight that I can't believe I didn't notice before.

This is the widely circulated aerial photo of Sandy Hook Elementary on Dec 14. This photo is creditted to Michael McAndrews a photog for the Hartford Courant.

Scroll through the pics at the following link for detailed accreditation.

www.guelphmercury.com...

Now take a look at this same picture paying special attention to the areas highlighted. I will give you my impressions.

Dark Blue

A table(s) covered with a cloth.

Light Blue

A bus. Not a school bus but a tour bus. Note the raised rear level. Also note this are is where the bulk of human activity is.

Yellow

One of those kids is.......FLYING A KITE

Edit: I have been provided a high res reverse angle pic and it is, indeed, a firetruck. But I still contend one of those kids is flying a kite.

If anyone has a high res copy of the posted pic I wouldn't mind being proven wrong in the slightest.

edit on 2-1-2013 by swansong19 because: (no reason given)

Here is another photo from a different angle:



And here is one from Google maps which would have been taken a while ago:



See it on Google Maps

As you can see, the same blue object you previously denoted as a kite can be seen in both of the above photographs. While it's still hard to determine what that object actually is, it can be inferred that because there are other blue objects that look similar not too far off from it, it is more likely to be a playground of sorts. You will notice that it is lower to the ground and appears to be much bigger than a kite. It's far more probable that it is some kind of playground, ground sheeting or gazebo of sorts. I think you may have been a bit quick to jump to conclusions here.

The table doesn't actually mean anything. It could have been there for a number of simple purposes such as accounting for survivors, police documentation, etc.

Your post is far fetched at best and I would offer that you should take a bit of time to investigate your hypotheses before making conclusions. Just a friendly tip.