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Let's Give Chivalry Another Chance

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posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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Interesting article by a woman who thinks the chivalric impulse has been unfairly attacked by feminism.

Article source link:
www.theatlantic.com...

"Chivalry" runs the gamut from holding doors open for women to putting priority on saving their lives first over saving the lives of me when fleeing a disaster like a sinking ship or burning building. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it? Well, not all women agree:


After the women's liberation movement of the 1960s, which insisted on the equal treatment of women in all domains of life, feminists dismissed chivalry as sexist. They still do. A new study, published in the feminist journal Psychology of Women Quarterly, questions the entire enterprise of male chivalry, which, in an Orwellian flourish, it calls "benevolent sexism."

Chivalrous behavior is benevolent because it flatters women and leads to their preferential treatment. But it is sexist because it relies on the "gendered premise" that women are weak and in need of protection while men are strong. "Benevolent sexism," Kathleen Connelly and Martin Heesacker of the University of Florida write in the study, "is an ideology that perpetuates gender inequality."


However, all sorts of studies show that both men AND women are happier with chivalric behavior:


Charles Murray, the libertarian social scientist at the American Enterprise Institute, summed up the study with tongue-in-cheek, writing "the bad news is that gentlemanly behavior makes people happy." He goes on to ask, "When social scientists discover something that increases life satisfaction for both sexes, shouldn't they at least consider the possibility that they have come across something that is positive? Healthy? Something that might even conceivably be grounded in the nature of Homo sapiens?"


The idea that there are inherent differences between men and women is, of course, frowned upon by feminists, but as science and psychology have advanced, its becoming harder and harder to ignore the basic truth that men and women are in fact very different in mind as well as body. I say there is no need to fear this, and that chivalry reflects this difference in a positive rather than a negative way.

The author of the article referenced above, a woman, tends to agree with me.

What do you think?

In closing this post I will leave you with an anecdote quoted in the article:


A story from the life of Samuel Proctor (d. 1997) comes to mind here. Proctor was the beloved pastor of Harlem's Abyssinian Baptist Church. Apparently, he was in the elevator one day when a young woman came in. Proctor tipped his hat at her. She was offended and said, "What is that supposed to mean?"

The pastor's response was: "Madame, by tipping my hat I was telling you several things. That I would not harm you in any way. That if someone came into this elevator and threatened you, I would defend you. That if you fell ill, I would tend to you and if necessary carry you to safety. I was telling you that even though I am a man and physically stronger than you, I will treat you with both respect and solicitude. But frankly, Madame, it would have taken too much time to tell you all of that; so, instead, I just tipped my hat."


I think its time for bitter feminists to come down from their high horses. And time for chivalrous men to get back up on their noble steeds...for the benefit of both sexes.

edit on 12/22/2012 by FailedProphet because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 10:34 PM
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I was raised we're all equal. So I do my best to open doors, defend the rights of and pay respect to everyone.

Chivalry? Last time I bought a woman a drink was 1997. After she played me because she was a woman with a sob story I caught hr in a lie and she is laughed and said "yep, but you still bought me a drink". Chivalry is a tool used to create an imbalance. Everyone needs to put in there own work. I'll respect you for that. Not because of your chromosomes.

Nice thread though, well written.
edit on 22-12-2012 by Mrgone because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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A man can open a door for me or tip his hat anytime.



posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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I always open the door/hold the door open for ladies, or blokes if they're likely to get knocked on the nose by a slamming door - it's just courtesy.

And it's polite to say thank you, also. So while my chivalry may not be declining, the politeness of others certainly is. Rarely get acknowledgement for it these days.. but I don't do it for acknowledgement. so.. eeehhh..

Oh and there's nothing worse than standing up for a pregnant lady on a bus, only for her to put her 9 year old son down on the seat and continue to stand with her pregnancy bumping into others standing...



posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by FailedProphet
 





However, all sorts of studies show that both men AND women are happier with chivalric behavior:



Good post FP i agree with you. We may be in the minority of thinkers oh well.



posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 11:09 PM
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Personaly, I am of two minds on this subject.

1. I believe in chivalry, in opening doors and letting the ladies enter first, in being polite, in watching my language in the presence of children and women, and in standing up for them even to the point of fighting to defend them.

2. I also believe that if a woman doubles up her fist and hits me like a man, I am within my rights to do the same to her in return.



posted on Dec, 22 2012 @ 11:26 PM
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Chivalry is definately not dead, please allow me to explain.
The wife and I went to dinner the other night and as we pulled in to our parking spot an elderly couple pulled in beside us.
It was a stormy night and seeing it was an elderly couple the wife and I waited to exit the car until they did.
The man jumped out of the car and trotted around to his wife and opened her door and held a jacket over her while cuddling to the restaurant front door.
My wife said to me, that is so awesome and you don't see that much other than you doing that kind of thing for me.
I mentioned that if she sees it from me all of the time and this elderly gentleman just did it, chivalry must not be dead just yet.
I also "programmed" my boys with the idea that Momma is most important above ALL, sure someday they will find their own Momma, and hopefully they will treat them with the same absolute respect as they did their own Mom.
It really does make for a happy home when Mom is put first, kind of like paying it forward.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by FailedProphet
 
Maybe it's just a Southern thing, but I have never in my life had to open a door when a man was present (or even a boy), and I have always been addressed as Ma'am from the time I was a girl. It's just something I grew up with that has thankfully not changed in my neck of the woods. I have never believed that chivalry is dead, and hopefully it will never die!



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 12:25 AM
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I hold the door open for women and men.

I also believe people show you how they'd like to be treated. If I know a feminist who doesn't want any special treatment, that's definitely ok. Some girls like to be treated like ladies, and in that case that's what you do.

Then again, if they're not pleasant to be around they probably won't get anything held for them



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by FailedProphet
 


me i did a little chivarly today i went into Ats chat and delivered Roses to a bear.
edit on 23-12-2012 by AthlonSavage because: Truth



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 02:08 AM
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I'm a real gentleman, for real.

I'm single.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 04:41 AM
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reply to post by FailedProphet
 


what i dont get about fems is if they want to be treated the same, why do they fight it so hard? we are all human beings, right? if i see a man or women in trouble, i help if able, as alot of unbiased men/women would do. fems will look down on men for extending a courtesy to women and in some cases look down on men for just being a good human being. ive gotten smiles out of girls for holding a door open, why is that a bad thing? i dont understand. i used to pedicab(bike-cart cab) and if it was 2 in the morning and a women was walking by herself in a shady area i would offer a ride even if she said she had no money for me. mind you i would also offer rides to guys that were to wasted to walk straight as i didn't want to see them get arrested. but being out there u see individuals, man and women walking, and its apparent that women being smaller and more vulnerable they have a higher chance of danger. , fems have hate for men and i dont know why. i see us as a ying and yang. fems just see black.
edit on 23-12-2012 by DocHolidaze because: (no reason given)
edit on 23-12-2012 by DocHolidaze because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by littled16
 


I have lived in Jersey all my life but all my family is from the south. There is definitely a big difference is terms of saying "Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am" and holding doors open and letting them be first in a lot of things.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by FailedProphet
 


Chivalry is also about being there to provide moral support for the person you love. It can be as simple as sitting in a chat forum or something more complicated. Just gotta make an effort even if it feels unappreciated. I guess chivalry is a bit of self sacrifice cause you care about someone.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by FailedProphet
 


Music can also be used to whoo someone you love in chivlary. Somepeople may even make up their own music for their love one. I made/wrote this music instrumental myself up for a woman i am very fond of. Called 'New Beginnings' because love is a creation.

soundcloud.com.../new-beginnings]

edit on 23-12-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 05:36 AM
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I'm of the opinion that we can only have chivalry or equal treatment across the board, but not a combination of the two. I open doors for everyone, man, woman, child, whoever. That's an almost unconscious thing I was raised to do. I'd also say my general tendency is to chivalry, but sometimes I feel like women want the best of chivalry, the best of equality, and none of the downsides from either.

I may be speaking more of how chivalrous to act in a relationship, but follow me on this.

If I am expected to open doors, pull out chairs, pay for all meals or drinks out, surrender my jacket when it's cold/raining, kill all the spiders, inspect bumps in the night even when I know it was the wind blowing around a tree branch or maybe just a raccoon, and generally do anything remotely dangerous or unpleasant, then I am fine with that. However, the corollary acts from the woman must be done in return. I don't expect a woman to be my personal short-order cook, but some initiative and effort in that regard makes me a little more enthusiastic to do the chivalrous thing. Likewise, the classic gender role activities like cleaning, doing laundry, and just generally being the woman of the house seem like a fair trade for all the chivalrous behavior in return.

The problem is when women try to pick and choose the benefits of chivalry and equality. In my experience (I'm in my 20's, so it's mostly with the 20-something women), women want a man who will kill any spider they encounter, protect them by inspecting any dangers while they stay safely out of range, pay for meals and drinks when they're out, and take care of any physical labor that might need done. They also expect him to never impose on her with expectations or even polite requests that she cook, bring him a drink (even when doing the physical labor she demanded he perform), clean anything, or do his laundry. All the male sacrifices of chivalry and none of the usual female sacrifices. I can confirm that they all desire this arrangement.

In response, I have stopped playing along. I don't buy women drinks at the bar, period (after hearing many tell stories of intentionally getting dressed in their skimpiest outfits and hitting the high-dollar bars all with the goal of getting hammered for free on the backs of easily duped men). I am willing to be chivalrous and would prefer that dynamic in a relationship, but I modulate my chivalry in direct relation to how much she adheres to the traditional female role in a chivalrous dynamic. I think that's fair, but if she wants equality, I would happily let her kill her own spiders and pick up the tab in exchange for picking up a bit more of the laundry and housework burden.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by Mrgone
I was raised we're all equal. So I do my best to open doors, defend the rights of and pay respect to everyone.

Exactly there thats why there is really no need for Chivalry. Alot of it simply boils down to polite gestures one should extend to others they encounter on a daily basis. If a specific woman i know appreciates certain gestures like that ill preform them but asfor women in general i don't extend them anything more than the basic common courtesy i give to everyone else.

The reality of the matter is bitter feminists need to relax a bit on the matter but so do you guys out there who think you're Lancelot.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by FailedProphet
 


Common courtesy and respect aren't chivalry, they're just things we should show to anybody, regardless of gender. But I've noticed a growing phenomenon I can only dub as "white knight syndrome", where men feel the need to protect and defend women, as though they're helpless, weak creatures who can't possibly take care of themselves.

Thanks to modern, radical feminism, we now have immasculated men who put women on a pedestal, treat them like queens, and for general purposes never assert their authority as men in any situation this allowing women to treat them as worthless dogs.

Both genders have equal worth, yet we've equate the particular roles men and women play (men as leaders, women as followers) as somehow meaning women are worth less than men. We play roles, because that is who we are and how it works. It's easy to say "the times are changing, so that mentality is antiquated and useless in modern society", but what has the opposite brought us?

Self-castrated men who are too afraid to defend themselves, and women who are losing interest in sex and are absolutely miserable. Men who dress like women and spout "sensitivity" and women who will continue to flock towards "a-hole" men they find attractive because of their dominant, assertive personalities. Men who act like morons and can't have a good relationship with women, and women who deceive themselves into thinking Justin Bieber and Eduard Cullen are attractive.

This is the new male-female dichotomy in the West. Men are becoming women, women are becoming men, and everybody is miserable.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Nah... Gave up on that... They have the whole package. They better use it if they want to get anywhere in life.



posted on Dec, 23 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by FailedProphet
 


Most women today are selfish and so independent they actually laugh or tell you "I don't need anyone to open a door for me"
. I then say "well don't let the door hit you in the ass". Women are so twisted that they love guys who treat them like crap and ignore them. Being nice will get a man nothing unless a woman is grounded, caring and ready to settle down and start a family.

I have refused to treat any woman I was interested in with nothing but love and respect as my mother taught me. That has gotten me NADA. So NO more Mr. Nice guy. Not that I am going to be mean or anything, I just wont care as much and always put them second to my needs unless I find one that really sweeps me off my feet like no other has even come close to before.

That is what they want so that is what they will get.





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