The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past.

reply to post by Julie Washington


And what, pretail, would you do when 3d printing allows the printing of guns.

Do point to any copyright or anti piracy laws that have actually done anything.


Ban the gun, and you have 100,000,000 Americans with guns who will probably not give it up, nor will the 200,000,000 internet users in this country likely stop downloading plans and files to print guns.

You make a most abominable situation, in which the hacker becomes the glorified savior, able to buy and sell black market guns, and able to essentially act as local warlord.


By all means, show me where the drug war succeeded in collapsing the black market.


By all means, point me to how your ban of guns will make anything better in the 21st century economy.

reply to post by jessejamesxx


The article about the evolution of the hunting rifle was good. It puts to rest the idea that, "these guns aren't used for hunting."

The latest generation of hunters grew up with the M-16 and its variants, and there’s no wonder that it is now becoming one of the most popular hunting platforms in the United States. Its an ingeniously modular design that allows shooters to customize the rifle to fit their body and their hunting style, changing everything from the length of pull for the stock to the caliber being used.

The AR-15 (the civilian M-16) is lighter, more accurate, and more highly customizable than anything on the market ever before. And the end result of that customization is my current hunting rifle.

This is my hunting rifle

reply to post by Julie Washington


Only a Commie Would Agree with you...........

GREAT IDEA! Let's get rid of the thirteenth ammendment while we are it since slavery no longer exists...

Logarock:

Oh oh oh ho. Madisons writings which OPs deal had to do with were not "personal diary or biography". They were the records of his public discorse.....it was public writen arguments on the same that later became law of the land....no diff than what the SCOTUS heads write down about a case. You are igno-rant.

For crying out loud, here we go again! Are gun advocates deliberately misunderstanding, or are they actually this thick?

What part of Madison's public discourses have congress passed or the senate ratified? The constitution is as it is. The 2nd amendment is written the way it is, not written by one individual, nor was it written in one sitting, it was re-written many times before it passed into constitutional law...you know why?

Whatever the text of the constitution was to finally say, it had to pass the approval of all the framers of the consitution, not one or two them...ALL OF THEM! Which is why it doesn't represent the personal thoughts and hopes of any particular framer, alone. After that, it had then to be ratified by all the representatives of the then current number of states, which meant some adjustments needed to be made to what was written before they would agree to it.

The text of the constitution stands now as it was written. The argument really isn't about what it says, but whether or not it represents modern society, which it blatantly doen't, because it pertains to the 18th century, and not the 21st...it really is a relic that needs updating. If you are going to update it, you can therefore argue the case for the right of the individual to bears arms, that's entirely your choice. If modern society wants that, I have no problem with it, one goes with the majority vote, but if it doesn't want it, then the right for the individual to bears arms will be denied. Instead of arguing interpretation, put your case forward and get it into the contemporary version of the consitution so that it doesn't need interpreting or arguing what it actually means.

reply to post by jessejamesxx


NO THEY could NOT! I can kill a tank with stuff from the hardware store it's called thermite and it's easy to make.

Originally posted by elysiumfire
Logarock:

Oh oh oh ho. Madisons writings which OPs deal had to do with were not "personal diary or biography". They were the records of his public discorse.....it was public writen arguments on the same that later became law of the land....no diff than what the SCOTUS heads write down about a case. You are igno-rant.

For crying out loud, here we go again! Are gun advocates deliberately misunderstanding, or are they actually this thick?

What part of Madison's public discourses have congress passed or the senate ratified? The constitution is as it is. The 2nd amendment is written the way it is, not written by one individual, nor was it written in one sitting, it was re-written many times before it passed into constitutional law...you know why?

Whatever the text of the constitution was to finally say, it had to pass the approval of all the framers of the consitution, not one or two them...ALL OF THEM! Which is why it doesn't represent the personal thoughts and hopes of any particular framer, alone. After that, it had then to be ratified by all the representatives of the then current number of states, which meant some adjustments needed to be made to what was written before they would agree to it.

Madison developed the wording and most of final product and it was approved. Case closed. The arguments he used and the points he made durring the debate and are found in the final product are in the Federalist papers.

Bone up a bit on this subject. I can tell you have never looked into it really.

11. Right to Keep and Bear Arms

Section 11. The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms is fundamental and shall not be infringed. Any restriction on this right shall be subject to strict scrutiny.

Acts 2012, No. 874, §1, approved Nov. 6, 2012, eff. Dec. 10, 2012.

Under a new law that went into effect on December 10, 2012, the citizens of the State of Louisiana have a new state constitutional amendment that is even stricter than the protections of gun rights under the Second Amendment to the US Constitution. The new state amendment removes language that authorized the legislature to "prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on a person," and subjects any proposed law that infringes on the right to bear arms to "strict scrutiny," the highest level of scrutiny that a court can apply to legislation.

This is a tremendous victory for civil rights in the state!

Louisianashooting.com

Thank god I live in Louisiana. Only thing they can do at fed level is to take away our right to conceal.


Sorry don't know how to link.

reply to post by elysiumfire


The 2nd amendment does not grant rights it outlines those rights the founders said were inalienable. That means it is given you by your creator or higher power not the government. The right to keep and bare arms is the right of self defense not just for your person but for your nation. Every person is the militia if they are able of body and mind.

The only restriction to gun possession and ownership should be this key component. The person in possession should be able, not damaged or dysfunctional to a debilitating degree. Lanza'a mother did not properly secure those weapons. This led directly to this tragedy. The drugs the boy was on should have sent up a flag that he should not be in possession of a firearm. Gun control should be restated as gun access control. I have no problem with access control that makes practical sense.

Just as prohibition failed to stop alcohol consumption, a gun ban will not stop gun crime. As laws do not stop drunk driving (which cause more deaths than firearms) laws do not stop mass murderers. Why do we not see where this is really going and what it is really about. The government fears the people, and rightfully so. It is the final check in our rather unbalanced system. Unlike any other country in the world the final say is with the people. Unfortunately to many people don't have the sense to realize this, on both the left and right side.

Respectfully
reluctantpawn

Changes to the constitution always change as the times have. Yet you gun owners refuse to acknowledge this. What about women rights..equal rights and etc.

The second amendment needs to be changed also..as the times have changed...you gun owners are just too freaking in love with your manhoo...errr i mean guns.

All your arguments for why there should be guns are full of lies and propaganda from the NRA, who by the way buys their stats.

reply to post by Julie Washington
The People Of Britian Send A Warning To All Americans About Gun Control Through This Video.

""Americans, like Brits, have grown complacent allowing the government to assume the responsibilities of free and independent citizens.

Our natural rights include among them the right to defend ourselves. The 2nd Amendment was intended to limit the power of the government by providing the each and every citizen with the means to abolish tyranny.

Tyrants may come into power without a shot ever being fired but they remain in power through force of arms.



America we made a big mistake handing our guns over to our government, please learn from our mistake.

We trusted our government and we shouldn’t have, freedom only belongs to those of you who have the guts to defend it.

Please spread this post to all you twitter,email, and Facebook friends, this is very strong testimony.""

Link go to Link ______beforeitsnews/politics/2012/12/the-people-of-britian-send-a-warning-to-all-americans-about-gun-control-through-this-video-2478058.html

Logarock

Madison developed the wording and most of final product and it was approved.

Interesting that you claim that for him, he would probably decline your fawning and sychophancy, in fact, he did...

You give me a credit to which I have no claim in calling me "the writer of the Constitution of the United States." This was not, like the fabled Goddess of Wisdom, the offspring of a single brain. It ought to be regarded as the work of many heads and many hands.

James Madison, letter to William Cogswell, March 10, 1834

How's that for 'boning up'! As I said, your arrogance of knowledge you claim, is matched by the ignorance of the knowledge you think I don't have! You underestimate me at your peril!

reply to post by Julie Washington


You think its time is long past, I think its time is still coming. Do you honestly believe the people with all the power are going to respond with kindness as all our problems continue to mount at the same rate as the population?
Technology and information sharing has changed the balance of power and the people are becoming more capable all the time. At some point the people won't need the government to accomplish pretty major things and that scares the people who benefit from the old dynamic. Those people are well established in the government, corporations and the media so it's not that hard for them to manipulate the majority in supporting their power grabs.. which we see all the time.. those of us with an eye for it at least.

I'm not arguing against regulations.. just that your argument is born of the opinions of someone with a false sense of security living a very sheltered life. Concession after concession I really find it amusing those people who truly still believe they are free.

I would offer up a quote from the Gunny, but I get in too much trouble already.

Thread fail. Terminating in

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Dont know if someone has already posted this but here's the 2nd amendment

"As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

congress is trying to change the meaning by replacing commas. as you can see the comma is separating two different points. point being we have the right to keep and bear arms!




en.wikipedia.org...

Something does have to change tho. there are too many irresponsible gun owners in america. you can easily spot these people by the way their always playing,touching, fidgeting with their guns like shmegal from lord of the rings

rbnhd76:

cdn.times247.com...
I would offer up a quote from the Gunny, but I get in too much trouble already.

One could easily substitute the faces you chose as 'experts' and replace them with 8 faces of any of the 20 children killed by Lanza, with the caption: "The slaughtered Lambs agree - gun worshippers won't give gun control a chance to work."

This just shows how little you know about the subject you bring up. If you knew why the 2nd amendment was put in place, then you would know that the need for it will never deteriorate or disappear. The purpose of the amendment is to allow the citizens to protect themselves against their government, as it is extremely easy for a government to institute tyrannical control over a population. If you were a student of history you would know this, as it has happened many times in the past, and is even happening as I type this. So you are just plain wrong.

JiggyPotamus:

This just shows how little you know about the subject you bring up. If you knew why the 2nd amendment was put in place, then you would know that the need for it will never deteriorate or disappear. The purpose of the amendment is to allow the citizens to protect themselves against their government, as it is extremely easy for a government to institute tyrannical control over a population. If you were a student of history you would know this, as it has happened many times in the past, and is even happening as I type this. So you are just plain wrong.

This just goes to show how little you know about the thread in which you post. If you saw the length of the thread then you would know that a need for it to be 'read' through never deteriorates or disappears. The purpose of reading through the thread is to allow citizens to protect themselves against their ungoverned ignorance, as it is very easy for ignorance to institute a tyrannical control over the brain's population. If you were a student of forums you would know this, as it has happend many times in the past, and was even happening as you wrote your post!