Overlooked evidence in School shooting

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

Standard issue M4 fire selector is safe, semi, and full auto. M16 depending on variant comes with semi, safe, full auto, or semi, safe and three round burst.

M16A2's were issued with sem, safe and full auto.

Any and all armalites, can be configured in either manner, I've even seen some selectors, that provide, safe, semi, three round and full auto. It really depends, on what lower is being used with the upper. If he was using an AR-15 depending on state regulations he could have had a weapon with full auto or three round burst.

Another member above, has mentioned by state law Semi auto is the only available option in his area, so no he did not have either. A majority of civilian fire arms regardless of maker do not offer this option if the state laws do not allow it.

edit on 18-12-2012 by Hijinx because: (no reason given)

The reason I ask is that there is a suggestion that this was not the act of Lanza at all, but a military action where Lanza was the patsy. Not saying I believe that, but the fact that the victims all had 3 or more wounds suggests that they may have been hit with a 3-round burst, then on to the next victim. I do understand that you can do a burst almost manually - I have an AR15 (no one is taking it from me, either).

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
Its suspect, though many shooters can pull a trigger very fast. check out mr Bob Munden
He draws cocks the hammer fires cocks the hammer again and fires again in 0.18 seconds.

What's your point?

Find out who the colorado shooters father was, and who the sandy hook shooters father was, connect the dots

How odd that he was supposedly a vegan because he "didn't want to hurt animals," and yet he's supposedly capable of killing random children? That seems very odd.

And I agree that I'd like to see pictures or footage of what the buildings themselves looked like, bullet holes and all. Let's keep in mind that we got video from the columbine incident. If we don't get so much as a picture here, I seriously doubt I'll be the only one seriously suspicious.

And hijinx, you keep posting from the standpoint that lanza couldn't have had this, or likely had that... which IMO is irrelevant to OP's point. As awake above points out, it has been suggested that Lanza may not have been the shooter. If Lanza was not the shooter, god only knows what kind of weapons were used.

And sure, the weapons in the trunk were civilian stuff. But remind me how one uses a firearm located in a car's trunk, when one is inside of a building (separated from that trunk by a good deal of space)?

Things are beginning to look a bit fishy with this story.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by zonetripper2065

 

You don't believe Adam Lanza was any kind of marksman, do you?
I realize people can shoot very fast semi auto but not young, inexperienced shooters.

Just because you or anyone you know couldn't do it doesn't mean that anyone else isn't capable of it.Some people learn quickly with things while others never become good at it.No matter how much they practice.

We're talking about children here.Not to be graphic but I'm thinking the bullets passed from body to body.As someone pointed out they were huddled together. Its not all that hard to believe that that's the reason they were hit so many times.Really has nothing to do with how well the shooter could fire a gun.

ETA : Also,this is a sensitive case.There's going to be LOTS of things that aren't going to be released publicly that could possibly explain any questions we all have. And that's the way it should be. Think about it.Would you want every last detail released to the public if it were YOUR child in that school? And if any of you say yes,you're a liar.

reply to post by Hijinx

I can see you have a lot of knowledge about how the M-16 or M-4 service rifle functions. It sounds like you've had the courses all about the ballistics and what it should and shouldn't do etc etc. I'm really not going to enter into a surreal debate about the impact...literally...of a .224 diameter piece of copper with either steel or lead in it in the real world...it really happened...situation we're talking about here..

Who knows which ammunition type, btw. I can tell you I have 300rds of tracer bullets for reloading ...in addition to 100 factory tracer. All .223. I've also got the green tip that are being issued in the military right now and those are rather impressive for going right on through a variety of things. They run a buck or two more a box at the gun show ..but that's about it. All my reload stuff comes from Sierra directly though. They're so close, I drive up there. Factory seconds make already cheap reloading....almost cheating for how inexpensive it becomes.

Given his mother was a prepper or at least, projected herself that way though? Who knows what ammo she had for it. I get catalogs regularly for ammunition that has the whole basket for varieties including frangible and semi-frangible if someone is looking for that. All just a few clicks and a credit card away...so assuming the kid was using the ammunition best suited to assumptions isn't supported. I'll wait until we know more on that.


Now I'm not sure if you're a parent or not. My Son is 12. he's certainly grown a lot....however, at 6 or 7? Umm.. you're thinking muscle tone and structure that gives even minimal deflection to start those tumbling. Depth and width to tumble through and possibly fragment. I think we're considering two very different things in book diagrams and charts for outcome of gunshots ...and what the monster here likely actually saw and even the authors of human trauma guides ,..either creating it or healing it ....couldn't well imagine.

conversely...I also know the .22lr, which is the same rough diameter as the .223 round on the shelf, can also be one of the most lethal bullets out there. It all depends... The .22 has the almost unique quirk of 'pinballing' inside a body if it hits bone the right way (NONE of this happened here in CT...I wouldn't be saying this if small ,.22 bullet had been used there.) The point is the different behavior is that we can't really predict for WHAT bullets will or will not do. There are pictures online of entry wounds in the chest and exit wounds in a leg. It's weird how it can work..........and it's too gruesome to try and wargame the specifics here, IMO.

@ Thread

Too many innocent Souls lost in one event.... It just surpasses the scenario hunting to my thinking this time. Usually I would also normally want to see pictures of a crime scene as mentioned elsewhere on the thread but ....There are things in this life I can do without seeing. It wasn't until I saw photographs of victims of the Nimitz Freeway Collapse that I understood what that really meant. I'll be happy if these pics never see public view, personally.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals

Originally posted by Answer
You're "very familiar" with firearms, but you don't realize how difficult it is for someone to gain access to a fully-automatic rifle?

The likelihood that Adam Lanza's mother owned an M-16 is so infinitesimally small as to not even be worth considering. Anyone familiar with the regulations and cost involved with legal ownership as well as the difficulty involved in illegal modification of an AR-15 can easily dismiss the idea as ludicrous.

Now, if you're suggesting that Adam Lanza was not the shooter, or that he was not alone... I have no argument.

I am suggesting in a round about way that it is possible Adam Lanza and his mother were as much victims as the children. Listen to the audio of the police scanner; they talk about suspects running, catching one in the woods etc. A single shooter who committed suicide can't run away.

This is kind of promoting ignorance.Do some of you not realize what kind of chaos was going on at the time? Put yourself in a cop's position at a mass shooting in a SCHOOL.You have NO idea what's going on.Your job is to be aware of who's in the area and anyone that looks suspicious it's up to you to detain.In other words everyone is a suspect until you know otherwise.

The first person a mass killer kills is usually the one implicated in the motive. After that, those who are perceived to be connected to the first one in some way are the next targets. There is usually a conscious and unconscious motive. The conscious motive is usually driven by rage fueled by jealousy, feeling betrayed, or unfairly treated in some way, and the unconscious motive is driven by fear. In this case, it could be argued that he was angry at his mother for lack of the kind of attention he thought he deserved (usually due to a bloated sense of entitlement) and after killing her he killed those who represented that which took her attention away from him, or received more attention than him. These are conscious motives. The unconscious motive for killing innocents is often fear of being alone in death. He knew he was going to kill himself after he killed his mother, and he didn't want to go alone. He doesn't realize this consciously, but it drives him all the same.

The reasoning for shooting the children many times is perversely conscientious. He didn't want them to suffer, but to die quickly. He couldn't tell how many were killed when they were huddled together so he kept shooting to make sure they all died fast. This is also the reason for shooting his mother three times. He could have shot her once and then watched her bleed to death. But he didn't want her to suffer. This conscientiousness is at odds with his rage, thus putting him in a sort of surreal cocoon in which he felt justified to commit ultimate taboos, as if he had already "died" to the world and was no longer subject to its rules.

There is no conspiracy. The local law enforcement are not prepared for such an extreme crime so they make mistakes in reporting, during and after. They don't want to be regarded as bunglers so they either withhold information from the press, or tell them something they heard from someone else, who heard it from someone else, etc. Look back on other heinous crimes in small towns, and you'll find that the facts didn't all come out until months or even years later. They were not "hidden" facts, but indicators of amateurish crime investigation which did not reflect well on local law enforcement (see: Jon Benet Ramsey).

reply to post by randomviolins


ease up with that "there is no conspiracy" jedi hand wave, partner. it all sounds nice, and i could probably agree, but we still have that pesky little detail about did the mother teach at that school, or didn't she? as long as everthing we've heard from captain" arrest anybody who questions the OS" is mixed up jargon, its a conspiracy or at least it has the appearance of being one.

its swiss cheese and i dont think anyone with their head out of their backend isn't asking questions. until we get something solid, i dont buy it, not one little bit of it. not none.

He wasn't found with a rifle. He was found with hand guns.

A rifle was found in the trunk of his car.

Why are you guys debating this simple fact? Semi automatic, fully automatic, different rounds and even ballistics with young human bodies are in question in this thread?

You people make me absolutely sick to my stomach. The real conspiracy is right in front of your faces.

reply to post by litterbaux


I don't think they were debating the place of the rifle. It was in the trunk...Maybe I missed that.

So tell us, why you are sick? What is it?

Originally posted by randomviolins
There is no conspiracy. The local law enforcement are not prepared for such an extreme crime so they make mistakes in reporting, during and after. They don't want to be regarded as bunglers so they either withhold information from the press, or tell them something they heard from someone else, who heard it from someone else, etc. Look back on other heinous crimes in small towns, and you'll find that the facts didn't all come out until months or even years later. They were not "hidden" facts, but indicators of amateurish crime investigation which did not reflect well on local law enforcement (see: Jon Benet Ramsey).

Are you serious? I can't believe you wrote that. Let me give you a recent example.



"Look back on other heinous crimes in small towns", I suggest you do the same before you make blanket statements on law enforcement.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
reply to post by litterbaux

 

So tell us, why you are sick? What is it?

The 2 minute attention span of the "know it alls".

I could swear when i first read about this on msn.com it said this shooting was done with a fully auto glock 18 handgun. Now its an ar-15 like every other shooting and the handgun was a secondary semi-auto.

reply to post by litterbaux


Okay, so what's the conspiracy smacking us in the face that we're missing?

Originally posted by Kodiac12
I could swear when i first read about this on msn.com it said this shooting was done with a fully auto glock 18 handgun. Now its an ar-15 like every other shooting and the handgun was a secondary semi-auto.

Yes. I didn't hear this broadcast, but a friend of mine said he heard it was a full auto Glock, which would be the model 18. And then your mind makes you think of the 33 round Glock factory mags that are sold for use with models 17 & 19. The MEDIA was pre-loaded with the script. They were ready to demonize all guns. They spread the misinformation all day.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

I had a bit of an epiphany while talking to friends...

Now think outside the box for a minute purely in jest:

What if instead of gun restrictions, the ultimate goal is gun sales and proliferation?

All of the big arms manufacturers are in deep with all the other fat cats in banking, industry, etc.
So it could actually add up.

Also consider the fact gun sales have increased this week.

Heck it was my natural reaction to all this propaganda and fear, i wanted to buy a gun. So did my non gun having friends.

Yeah lets buy multiple guns, and tons of ammo, then go expend it and come get more. Lets all be gun grabbers and grab em up before its banned, cha ching $$$

edit on 18-12-2012 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

As I have posted in other threads this shooting was obviously not how it is being portrayed in the news.. I had to watch the news for about 10 minutes to hear them lie and contradict themselves. I became aware, then the more I looked into it the more NOTHING made any sense... (guns used, motive, ability, multiple shooters, a van being chased, a nun costume, bullet casings not matching the weapons in play, cops chasing people in the woods **recorded on Radio** EVERYTHING is wonky here)

F ing cover up...

And what was my reaction?

I'm going to buy a gun.. I was in the Army.. I miss my training on the M16A2.. I'm a hippy, and I want a Colt AR15.. But I'll settle for a handgun if need be..

What have I learned? Media still can't be trusted, and yet.. the cops on scene can be less trusted...

I threw up that day from anger or something like anger..

So maybe?? Cause I never obtained a gun before. I have motive now to get a gun.. My girlfriend who teaches (3 year olds at the moment) wants me to get one too..







MEANWHILE...

The State in question (CT) Already has an Assault Weapons Ban.. So people want to ban something that was already banned in the place something happened so that the thing that was banned and didn't happen would not happen somewhere else... Weapons used in the case were compliant...

Logic astounding...

Originally posted by DeeKlassified
Interesting post OP, I'm not a gun person so would never have thought of it the way you have.

The fact the shooter had a mask on is also suspicious, why go to the trouble of wearing a mask if you're going to kill yourself? James Holmes also wore a mask?!

Also, has anyone said, "I saw that dude shoot himself?" Let me guess, he ran off by himself and did it????

If someone else has mentioned this, I appologize for the repeat, I haven't had the time to read the entire post but a thought just popped into my head....

Does anyone remember the bomb threats at all of those different schools a couple months back? Didn't they come right after or shortly after the theatre killings? I don't remember for sure, but I do remember there were 2 or 3 or possibly more, colleges that evacuated because of bomb threats.

I don't know why or how this would have any connection or correlation, but I remember someone saying that "they were testing the colleges for response time but would hit the lower case schools" ie: high schools, elementary schools.

thoughts?

Originally posted by Jusvistn
If someone else has mentioned this, I appologize for the repeat, I haven't had the time to read the entire post but a thought just popped into my head....

Does anyone remember the bomb threats at all of those different schools a couple months back? Didn't they come right after or shortly after the theatre killings? I don't remember for sure, but I do remember there were 2 or 3 or possibly more, colleges that evacuated because of bomb threats.

I don't know why or how this would have any connection or correlation, but I remember someone saying that "they were testing the colleges for response time but would hit the lower case schools" ie: high schools, elementary schools.

thoughts?

I remember that... There were threads on ATS even.

Looks like they found a weakness.. Unarmed Kids...