St Loius Police Chief says time to end "gun free" lunacy

reply to post by alldaylong


What-ifs arent reality.

For one thing a schizoid psycho with a rifle isnt going to be surprising anyone in their classroom. Breaking glass, screams, shots and running are all pretty good indicators that something is going on. Then there's the whole PA system thing.

Why would a kid get a hold of it? All day it's IWB under a shirt. No different than if that teacher isnt at work. Maybe you dont understand that because you dont carry all day everyday.

As far as the teacher going nuts is concerned if you dont trust your kids teacher to not go crazy and start shooting kids in the classroom why the hell are you sending your kid to spend 8 hours a day locked in a room with him?

reply to post by studio500


As long as teachers are not using mood altering meds , I don't think it will be a problem. That scenario could happen now, but it hasn't. I give my fellow citizens a bit more credit than you do.

Originally posted by studio500
Yeah until one Teacher gets pushed over the edge of life and decides to take out an entire classroom full of 4 year olds!

Then everyone will say Duh....How could we have let this happen......

edit on 17-12-2012 by studio500 because: (no reason given)

If you cant trust your kids teacher to not blow his head off dont send your kid to that school. The kid is already locked in a room with that teacher all day 5 days a week.

reply to post by studio500

Yeah until one Teacher gets pushed over the edge of life and decides to take out an entire classroom full of 4 year olds!

If the teachers in neighboring classrooms are armed, that "over the edge teacher" isn't going to have the time to "take out an entire classroom full of 4 year olds". Teachers being unarmed, is the ONLY REASON the death toll was so high in this incident.

See ya,
Milt

Originally posted by studio500
Yeah until one Teacher gets pushed over the edge of life and decides to take out an entire classroom full of 4 year olds!

Then everyone will say Duh....How could we have let this happen......

edit on 17-12-2012 by studio500 because: (no reason given)

More guns could have prevented it you know

There is NO debate! The issue is a moral issue - a societal issue. It has nothing to do with guns. There are many, many things that can be used to murder innocent people and you can't make any of them illegal and expect it to magically stop murder.

The decline of morals and the loss of personal responsibility is to blame. That is an entirely different thread. We can debate prohibition on inanimate objects until we're all blue in the face, and bad people will still find ways to do bad things - despite any indignation.

When the politicians are ready to talk about regulations and legislation that puts the family back together, puts schools in a position to prepare children from the REAL world instead of fantasy liberal idealism, violence is taken out of the cultural norm (Video games, gangsta rap etc...), and personal responsibility is restored as the norm - there is NOTHING to discuss. The rest of this crap is political side-show and will yield no meaningful results in resolving the problems we have.

reply to post by cripmeister


The problem is the violence, not the gun. A chainsaw could take a lot of people out at one time, especially children. As long as the focus is the gun the problem of violence will always remain. But I think that's what our Lord and Masters are ultimatley looking for in the end.

reply to post by homeslice

Also, if the general public didn't have access to automatic weapons the death toll would be much lower.

Though I don't disagree with that, I must say that the often abused "access to automatic weapons" is more of a law enforcement issue, than it is a legislative issue. More laws won't do any good, if we're not able to, or willing to, enforce the laws that we already have.

See ya,
Milt

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by cripmeister

 

The problem is the violence, not the gun.

The problem is gun violence.

A chainsaw could take a lot of people out at one time, especially children.

Guns make mass murder easy and impersonal, chainsaws not so much.

As long as the focus is the gun the problem of violence will always remain. But I think that's what our Lord and Masters are ultimatley looking for in the end.

The problem of gun violence will remain for as long as there are guns obviously. More guns = more gun violence.

reply to post by BenReclused


Milt.... that was a HOME RUN! This has been discussed ad nauseum... just enforce the laws that are already on the books and incidences of gun violence would immediately decline. We can never make gun violence go away - much the same as knife violence, bat violence, sword violence, blunt object violence or any type of physical harm brought to bear by someone who has the will. Make inanimate objects illegal still leaves bad people to their own devices. And they have tried for centuries to ban violent people. We have jails, tickets, probation and wealth of laws - but we still have 'em and always will!

Originally posted by studio500
Yeah until one Teacher gets pushed over the edge of life and decides to take out an entire classroom full of 4 year olds!

Then everyone will say Duh....How could we have let this happen......

edit on 17-12-2012 by studio500 because: (no reason given)

^^^ This.

Or, how about a highschool kid jumping a teacher for his/her gun?

I think schools should have a security officer that is just added to the faculty. Individual teachers have enough to worry about, and the stress of teaching can sometimes causes them to snap.

If your sole job is to provide basic security all day (walk the halls and watch for suspicious activity) -- you'll be far more effective at your job.

We already hire janitors, why not a security guard?

I come from a family with many teachers in it.

I am amazed at some of the responses here and around the web. Are people really being serious by saying if we arm the teachers, the teachers will one day go crazy and kill all of their students? What kind of teachers do your kids have? What kind of crazy school would employ such lunatics? Quit being such drama queens. One day you're buying a gun, the next day you're going crazy and you're shooting up a school. Give me a break. There are what, 200,000,000, 300,000,000 legal firearms in the country? These anti gun types are really disconnected and delusional. It's like saying everyone is going to start doing heroin and become a heroin addict if we legalized heroin.

reply to post by cripmeister


Your argument falls along the lines of Reagans reasoning for launching his war on drugs. Good luck with that train of thought.

People driving cars kill more often than people with guns, and cars are even more impersonal. This gun grabbing banter is about control. What has ever given you the notion that our leaders are looking after the best interest of their citizens....especially the little ones?

reply to post by kozmo

Thank you for your comment, kozmo! "Atta boys" mean a great deal to me!

I don't currently have the need, or the desire, to own any firearms. But I am, most definitely, glad that my neighbors have, and exercise, their right to "bear arms". As for qualified teachers having access to firearms on school property, I would feel MUCH better about the safety of my grandson.

See ya buddy,
Milt

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by cripmeister

 

The problem is the violence, not the gun.

The problem is gun violence.

A chainsaw could take a lot of people out at one time, especially children.

Guns make mass murder easy and impersonal, chainsaws not so much.

As long as the focus is the gun the problem of violence will always remain. But I think that's what our Lord and Masters are ultimatley looking for in the end.

The problem of gun violence will remain for as long as there are guns obviously. More guns = more gun violence.

Incorrect. Your post is a lesson in non-sequiturs and ad hoc ergo propter hoc fallacies. You will NEVER eliminate guns, ergo you can never eliminate gun violence. The cause and effect solution you apparently advocate is fantasy akin to cutting off one's own nose to eliminate a horrible smell. The horrible smell remains - others can sense it - you have only managed to SUBJECTIVELY resolve the problem without ACTUALLY resolving the problem.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom

Originally posted by studio500
Yeah until one Teacher gets pushed over the edge of life and decides to take out an entire classroom full of 4 year olds!

Then everyone will say Duh....How could we have let this happen......

edit on 17-12-2012 by studio500 because: (no reason given)

^^^ This.

Or, how about a highschool kid jumping a teacher for his/her gun?

I think schools should have a security officer that is just added to the faculty. Individual teachers have enough to worry about, and the stress of teaching can sometimes causes them to snap.

If your sole job is to provide basic security all day (walk the halls and watch for suspicious activity) -- you'll be far more effective at your job.

We already hire janitors, why not a security guard?

I come from a family with many teachers in it.

We already have that. I live across the river from STL near the AFB. A town over is East St Louis. Throughout ST LOUIS there are metal detectors and guards.. have been since the 90's. Guards have been in school in STL ( schools like Roosevelt in St Louis city) since the 80's. Guns still get in. Arming the teachers will stop it if it starts.
Im shocked that if you come from a family of teachers you dont already know these policies that have been around in numerous schools in numerous areas for decades.

Even with five metal detectors and two resource officers at the school, some students say it’s too easy to bring weapons inside.

www.kmov.com...
These arent legally owned guns by law abiding citizens. They are street guns. I refuse to give up my right to protect myself when the police take 45 min to get here while Im in the middle of a home invasion. You get rid of lawful guns then the only ones who have them are the criminals.. including the psychos off the streets and budding bangers in your schools regardless of detectors and guards.

Maybe he was reading about this.

gunssavelives.net...

On a side note. The school my son goes to used to have a thing that you had to buzz to get in. I guess it broke and over the years was not fixed because things are sort of quiet here. Today I saw a note on the door reading you have to call the office to get in.


Raist

reply to post by kozmo


Well said.

I am fairly amused at some of these arguments. Pretty thin IMHO.

Originally posted by BenReclused


We should only arm those teachers that are trained, willing, ready, and capable, of shooting an armed intruder.

Had administrators and teachers at that school been armed, and willing, I have no doubt that the only deaths that day, would have been that of the mother, and that of the armed intruder.

From a non-U.S perspective:

The thought of arming teachers as the solution to a problem ......... seems like, you are not addressing the problem.

I accept that the genie is out of the bottle & America is awash with guns but peoples hesitancy to countenance such a measure, is well founded.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by cripmeister

 

Your argument falls along the lines of Reagans reasoning for launching his war on drugs. Good luck with that train of thought.

People driving cars kill more often than people with guns, and cars are even more impersonal. This gun grabbing banter is about control. What has ever given you the notion that our leaders are looking after the best interest of their citizens....especially the little ones?

My argument is this: more guns = more gun violence. If you can't grasp this simple logic I am sorry.

Originally posted by kozmo

Incorrect. Your post is a lesson in non-sequiturs and ad hoc ergo propter hoc fallacies. You will NEVER eliminate guns, ergo you can never eliminate gun violence. The cause and effect solution you apparently advocate is fantasy akin to cutting off one's own nose to eliminate a horrible smell. The horrible smell remains - others can sense it - you have only managed to SUBJECTIVELY resolve the problem without ACTUALLY resolving the problem.

See my response to Witness2008 above. Guns will not go away I know that.