St Loius Police Chief says time to end "gun free" lunacy

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posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by Rubic0n

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


It HAS to be wrong to put yet more guns into society. It will surely just compound the problem. The US Mental Health System has to be made aware of people who are a danger to society much sooner than is the case. Surely treatment is better than amputation is it not?


Because it just HAS to be wrong , right ?


Like i said just now , all your doing is removing legitimate protection from licensed people. Criminals will carry guns no matter what but do them a favor and disarm their targets ok.


I deplore the very thought of any human being having to carry a firearm.


"Having" to carry a firearm? So do I. I would love to live in a world where there was no crime, no violence, no war, no rape, no genocide, no dictators, no murder, no theft...but we don't. We never have had utopia and we never will. Since we will never, ever, have such a society, it is imperative for good, law abiding people to posess the means of self defense and self determination.


Here in the UK some criminals do carry guns. However the ordinary man in the street does not own a gun, have a gun in their home, car or handbag. It does not make us fell any less safe because we don't own guns. Here the difference lies between the UK and the US.
edit on 18-12-2012 by alldaylong because: (no reason given)



Feeling safe and being safe are two different things. Just because you feel safe does not mean that you are. In fact, the information you have given would say you are less safe, since the criminals are armed, and you are not. That's like saying "I have my seatbelt on and it makes me feel safe, so I couldn't die in a car accident, right?"




posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by alldaylong
The people who carry out these crimes are mentally ill. They nearly always end up killing themselves. They won't be afraid if teachers have guns, because they want to die anyway.
You are all missing the blindingly obvious.



As are you. The sooner the attacker dies the better. A lot of damage is done while victims wait for cops to arrive.


So you are saying school teachers should have a gun ready on top of their desk in case an intruder walks in and starts shooting. That is never going to happen. He takes the teacher out first before she has time to get his or her gun out.
I really cannot believe you think that the solution is to arm teachers. What happens if a child gets the gun out of the desk and starts firing it. Or do you suggest the teachers walk around with a holster.

If this wasn't so ridiculous it would be laughable. So your answer to stop mental people using guns is to give more people guns.

The solution is to treat the disease.


you are right treat the disease with a shot to the head! I just took a CCDW class. They had statistics that showed that when the police responded to these type of shootings the average death toll was 14, when an armed citizen was there the average death toll was 2. They are giving teachers in Utah CCDW classes so they can respond to this type of attacks. I know not all teachers will be a good candidate for being armed or be able to respond to the stress of that situation, it does take training. There were people in my class and I do have my doubts that they should be armed, it is not for everyone. It is much more difficult to shot a person than a target on the range.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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At least one small school districs in Texas already have teachers that carry.

www.foxnews.com...

Mean while Gov. Perry, love him or hate him, says this:


"With our concealed handgun license, if you go through the process and you have been duly backgrounded and trained and you are a concealed handgun licensed-carrying individual, you should be able to carry your handgun anywhere in this state,"


www.realclearpolitics.com...

I can see open carry being approved in 2013 in Texas. Oklahoma just approved it.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by homeslice
So the guns the murder got was from his mother - a teacher at the school. So now you want all the rest of the teachers in america to have guns?


Not sure if it's been said yet, but it's been long roven that the mother was notba teacher at the school.

To add to that - why not teams of nat'l guard? I'd rather have 3 guardsmen at each school than a bunch of teachers. The profession itself could too easily become a target for predators tobwork their way in. Much as sexual predators tend to aim for jobs working with children, there are many places desperate for teachers, where you can quickly become a teacher with a bit of additional schooling, or a simple test. I don't know if that's reasonable to think of as a possibility, but regardless, why not use the Guard for something useful, and related to their mission, rather than being misdirected from their best uses in a foreign land?



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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I live in St.Louis, I am proud of that Police Chef. He right!



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by alldaylong
 


reply to post by alldaylong
 



Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by alldaylong

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land. There is no deterrent for a lunatic. You expect them to think the same as you and i. I have news for you. They don't. These fruitcakes expect to die through their actions, in fact i would go as far as saying that they probably crave it.


You're right. So would you rather they be killed right away or in about 20 minutes?


You may have overlooked this:-

www.highbeam.com...


Overlooked what?

Are you just trying to find any situation where a teacher or guard armed with a firearm couldnt do anything to stop an assailant as a far away sniper?

You really want to play this game? You give me a sniper or a bomber and I give you a close attacker or a DGU?

Why not just say that you'd prefer a lunatic to rampage freely for 20 minutes killing cowering children rather than stop him right away?


I challenge you to withdraw that insult. Otherwise i will report to Mods.


Such a cowardly way of refusing to answer a direct question. This poster did not in any way insult you. In fact, he asked direct questions. It is you who insulted with your childish mentions of cloud cuckoo land.

You are exposed. You refuse to answer legitimate questions directed at you. Furthermore, you claim that such questions are insults and threaten to alert moderators of the posters transgressions. This is laughable. It is plain to see for any moderately capable mind that you are avoiding the questions posed at you. You do this because you cannot answer them and doing so would hurt your preplanned agenda. I find it amusing that you ignore the questions asked of you by the poster on page 5. You deflect it by claiming a nonexistent insult and proceed to respond to the posts of other members. Very poor form. This is why you are exposed. All of your arguments are meaningless due to your obvious agenda based behavior.

For the record. Thisguyrighthere, I am not defending or standing up for you in any way. I posted this message because the blatant acts of this fraud struck a chord with me. He avoids legitimate questions pertaining to his posts. Had he been sincere he would not have pusillanimously avoided your legitimate inquires.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 01:11 AM
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Where I live in Upstate New York, for awhile police agencies send officers, troopers, or deputies to the school districts to serve as Resource Officers. They provided a presence at the schools, a role model, a sense of security, etc, etc. I think every school should have these types of police at the schools. This way you don't have to worry about arming teachers and you get a competent trained officer with a gun at the school. I have talked to several of these resource officers and they seemed to love the job. Of course, with budget cuts a lot of these positions went away. I think it's a good place to start.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by My_Reality
reply to post by alldaylong
 


reply to post by alldaylong
 



Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by alldaylong

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land. There is no deterrent for a lunatic. You expect them to think the same as you and i. I have news for you. They don't. These fruitcakes expect to die through their actions, in fact i would go as far as saying that they probably crave it.


You're right. So would you rather they be killed right away or in about 20 minutes?


You may have overlooked this:-

www.highbeam.com...


Overlooked what?

Are you just trying to find any situation where a teacher or guard armed with a firearm couldnt do anything to stop an assailant as a far away sniper?

You really want to play this game? You give me a sniper or a bomber and I give you a close attacker or a DGU?

Why not just say that you'd prefer a lunatic to rampage freely for 20 minutes killing cowering children rather than stop him right away?


I challenge you to withdraw that insult. Otherwise i will report to Mods.


Such a cowardly way of refusing to answer a direct question. This poster did not in any way insult you. In fact, he asked direct questions. It is you who insulted with your childish mentions of cloud cuckoo land.

You are exposed. You refuse to answer legitimate questions directed at you. Furthermore, you claim that such questions are insults and threaten to alert moderators of the posters transgressions. This is laughable. It is plain to see for any moderately capable mind that you are avoiding the questions posed at you. You do this because you cannot answer them and doing so would hurt your preplanned agenda. I find it amusing that you ignore the questions asked of you by the poster on page 5. You deflect it by claiming a nonexistent insult and proceed to respond to the posts of other members. Very poor form. This is why you are exposed. All of your arguments are meaningless due to your obvious agenda based behavior.

For the record. Thisguyrighthere, I am not defending or standing up for you in any way. I posted this message because the blatant acts of this fraud struck a chord with me. He avoids legitimate questions pertaining to his posts. Had he been sincere he would not have pusillanimously avoided your legitimate inquires.



If you want to comment on the remarks i have made then at least get your facts correct. My remark about "Cloud Cuckoo Land" was a reply to a comment made by Votan and not Thisguyisright. . You jump in with comments before you actually read the threads.

What we have here is a case of Americans love their guns and we Brits don't.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 06:52 AM
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While you're at it why don't you solve alcoholism by making more whiskey and making sure you can get a bottle and drink it no matter where you are.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 07:52 AM
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The base of the issue no matter which side of the fence/pond you are on is that statistics show that places with extremely strict gun laws (ie. Chicago, NYC, LA, Buffalo) have a higher rate of gun related fatalities than places that allow CCW permits and allow citizens to carry firearms on their person. Guns are not going away folks. If you make it impossible for law-abiding citizens to have a means of personal protection the only people that will have guns are those that hold no regard for the law (ie. the criminal element). That's what all of you don't seem to understand. Just because you enact a gun ban does not mean that they all magically vanish into thin air.

You people want a utopian society where everything is sunshine and rainbows, where criminals actually obey the laws (reality check: they are criminals because they don't obey the laws) and where there are no more weapons, period. That is a nice fantasy. The cold hard truth is that there are guns out there and there are regular average folk that are being threatened with an ever increasing menace of criminals with guns. I live an hour and a half away from Buffalo, NY, and the gun crime rate there is ridiculous. You know who actually commits these crimes? Gang bangers. Street thugs. Drug dealers. They have the funding to get guns in anyway possible. If they don't, they steal/kill for them. Buffalo also has strict CCW laws so that you really can't even have a handgun unless you are a police officer or a security guard.

To be honest, if I had kids in school, I'd want someone to be armed in that school, whether it be a school resource officer (which funding has been cut to in several districts across New York State and other states as well), or several trained teachers/staff members. To have these weapons is a deterrent. Talking won't help. Ask the first staff member at Sandy Hook about that one. They were shot dead the second they opened their mouth. Armed resistance will make someone like that killer stand down (just look at the shopping mall shooting that happened on Sunday....CCW permit holder pulled his firearm on the shooter and the shooter killed himself when he met resistance). Instead of having 26 dead you might be able to lower the death rate to 2 and maybe even 0.

If the difference between 26 dead and 2 dead (and don't mince my words...any deaths are horrible tragedies in their own right) is fast response time from within the building where the shooting is taking place, I'd rather have a few teachers/administrators/support staff members armed and ready to go if it were to ever happen. I'd rather not wait for a 20 minute response from the cash-strapped police department. In this situation seconds do really matter.


I will not give up my guns because some bleeding heart liberal says that "OMG!!!2@!$#!@! GUNZ R BAD!!@@!#" I want the security knowing that if I were to ever have to use them, I have them at the ready. I just pray that that day never comes.





-TS



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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I once stopped a home invader who was climbing in my bedroom window in the middle of the night by sticking as shotgun in his face. I didn't have to pull the trigger. The sheer terror of being seconds from having the top of his head blown off motivated him to scream like a little girl and run like hell. I will be forever convinced that being armed possibly saved my life and the life of my family that night.
I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, and that means taking responsibility for my own and my family's safety.
I will keep my guns and my ability to defend myself no matter what.



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by Wongbeedman

Why on earth would you assume the teacher would kill the thug first? If there's some crack head pointing a gun at you. The STUPIDEST, let me repeat the STUPIDEST mist dumb thing you could possibly do is try and reach for your gun and shoot him first. Where is your logic, you'd rather kick off a shootout in a class full of kids, than attempt to talk the thug out of it, possibly meaning no shots are fired? Of course it would be ludicrous to rely on reason when it comes to these people, but I don't see how, in a school environment, guns should be the answer. Your government should be focusing on these people not getting into the primary school in the first place.


The stupidest idea huh?

It is you who is assuming. You are assuming that the teacher would be staring directly into the barrel of a gun, and not the students. You are assuming that ALL the teachers would be unable to defend themselves.

Stupid idea huh? What if history was not on your side?

Let us start with the 1997 Pearl River Mississippi school shooting which left 2 dead, 7 injured. It would have been a much higher body count if not for an Assistant Principle who kept a .45 in his car. In this case, the shooter was leaving the current school and was on his way to another school when this Assistant Principle stopped him, and held him at gun point while he was in his car, until police could arrive.

Now, what would have happened if that Assistant Principle was able (by law) to keep that .45 in his desk and did not have to run to his car?

Of course you want to "talk the thug out of it"


That is simply laughable. In this case of the 1997 Pearl River shooting, just like this current case in Sandy Hook, the shooter first killed a parent before making his way to school. Do you really think you can talk a person who just killed his own parent out of shooting some people he knew at school? If a person can kill their own parent, what makes you think your life would be worth so much to them that they would suddenly reconsider?



posted on Dec, 19 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by alldaylong


You make it sound so simple but in reality you haavn't a clue have you? Do you know how difficult it is for a normal "Sane" person (in this case a teacher) to shoot another human being? You may learn a lot from this:-

www.military-sf.com...




It is a rather easy decision when your choice is limited to saving your life and the life of students around you or not. There are countless cases of firearm owners who never imagined a day they would ever need to fire a weapon in self defense... yet when the choice was fire that weapon and live - or do not and die, they managed to find it within themselves to do something they never thought they would have to.

People have a natural instinct to protect their own life- most simply never realize it until they are forced to do so.






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