St Loius Police Chief says time to end "gun free" lunacy

It's a well known fact that at least 20 people who work in the office with me have concealed weapons and the permits to carry them. A few more carry, but are not properly permitted. I pity the fool who walks in our office and decides to start executing random people. It would be a matter of seconds before we was beginning to assume room temperature.
I have a son in 5th grade and 2 kids in high school. I would like nothing better than for the teachers to be armed and trained to kill.

reply to post by stutteringp0et


True, last I read she home schooled him near the end and was a bit of a prepper. If that is true it seems she might have brought it about by possibly speaking to her son (who was unstable) about things you read on ATS.

I wonder if the mother was not a member here?

Raist

Originally posted by alldaylong
The people who carry out these crimes are mentally ill. They nearly always end up killing themselves. They won't be afraid if teachers have guns, because they want to die anyway.
You are all missing the blindingly obvious.

I think it is YOU who is missing the obvious.

If there was a single teacher armed in that school, you would not have 20 dead kids or 6 dead teachers. Instead, you'd have one dead thug who intended to do harm to those children.

It is very simple. Do you want these "mentally ill" individuals to shoot kids and then shot themselves or get shot before they could shoot kids?

What if a teacher flips out and ends up shooting the kids? I am glad that when I have children they wont have to be educated around guns. I have seen many teachers lose it with students, that includes launching objects and cursing at students. May as well just place some turrets at the school gates and do armored patrols.

reply to post by OwenGP185


What is keeping a teacher from flipping out and killing kids now?

It would be just as easy for a teacher to lock their door and shoot or stab every kid in their class right now.

Edit to add: for that matter with kids that young a teacher could lock the door and strangle every kid in their class.


Raist

Originally posted by homeslice
So the guns the murder got was from his mother - a teacher at the school. So now you want all the rest of the teachers in america to have guns?

Check your facts. The mother was NOT a teacher at the school and had no affiliation with the school.



To the OP:

Finally a voice of reason in all of this emotionally charged "OMG!@!11!!! GUNZ R BAD!!!!! THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!11!!!2@#!!"

If I ever decided to return to the teaching profession, I would volunteer to be one of the "secret teachers" with a handgun. There shouldn't be a reason why mentally stable, properly trained school personnel cannot carry a weapon on their person. I'm not going to go into conjecture and "what-if's" about the events of last Friday, but I will say that some of those teachers might have had a fighting chance if one of them was carrying some heat.


I commend the police chief for standing up against the anti-gun lobbyists.




-TS

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by alldaylong
The people who carry out these crimes are mentally ill. They nearly always end up killing themselves. They won't be afraid if teachers have guns, because they want to die anyway.
You are all missing the blindingly obvious.

I think it is YOU who is missing the obvious.

If there was a single teacher armed in that school, you would not have 20 dead kids or 6 dead teachers. Instead, you'd have one dead thug who intended to do harm to those children.

It is very simple. Do you want these "mentally ill" individuals to shoot kids and then shot themselves or get shot before they could shoot kids?

Why on earth would you assume the teacher would kill the thug first? If there's some crack head pointing a gun at you. The STUPIDEST, let me repeat the STUPIDEST mist dumb thing you could possibly do is try and reach for your gun and shoot him first. Where is your logic, you'd rather kick off a shootout in a class full of kids, than attempt to talk the thug out of it, possibly meaning no shots are fired? Of course it would be ludicrous to rely on reason when it comes to these people, but I don't see how, in a school environment, guns should be the answer. Your government should be focusing on these people not getting into the primary school in the first place.

reply to post by Raist


Well going by the OP it appears most US teachers do not yet carry weapons in class? In my opinion firing a gun at someone would be a lot easier than using a melee weapon or physically attacking even, especially if the killer plans to commit suicide. Regardless of whether or not it is easier, I just do not think guns and education are a good mix.

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by OwenGP185

 

What is keeping a teacher from flipping out and killing kids now?

It would be just as easy for a teacher to lock their door and shoot or stab every kid in their class right now.

Edit to add: for that matter with kids that young a teacher could lock the door and strangle every kid in their class.


Raist

edit on 12/18/12 by Raist because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/18/12 by Raist because: (no reason given)

Nothing, of course.
But how much easier would it be if they had a handgun on their waist?
I wouldn't want anyone who would even consider taking a handgun into school anywhere near my kids, why would anyone.

reply to post by OwenGP185


MY point was a teacher could snap and take a gun, knife or what ever with them, lock the door and start killing. This guy entered a school with the same signs keeping normal people from taking guns on the school grounds. Signs did not stop him. He was a nut case that wanted to kill.

If a teacher wants to kill no sign will stop them. They will take their weapon of choice to school and do their damage.

No teacher legally carries on school grounds now because it is illegal. Being illegal did not stop this nut case. Nut cases snap and do things, if there is any way we can lessen or stop the nut cases the better off we are.

Raist

Originally posted by Wongbeedman

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by OwenGP185

 

What is keeping a teacher from flipping out and killing kids now?

It would be just as easy for a teacher to lock their door and shoot or stab every kid in their class right now.

Edit to add: for that matter with kids that young a teacher could lock the door and strangle every kid in their class.


Raist

edit on 12/18/12 by Raist because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/18/12 by Raist because: (no reason given)

Nothing, of course.
But how much easier would it be if they had a handgun on their waist?
I wouldn't want anyone who would even consider taking a handgun into school anywhere near my kids, why would anyone.

Obviously not the case in the UK, but in most states in the US, if you and your kids leave the house, you are around people carrying concealed all day long.

reply to post by Wongbeedman


Where my son goes to school each class has a door that locks and only a small window on the door that has a small amount of screen between the glass.

The doors there lock. If his teacher decided to snap and kill my son and his 7 class mates no one could stop her from doing it even if she did so with her bare hands until they found a way into her classroom.

My son lives in a home with weapons of all sorts. I would only want my son around a teacher who was trained in firearms. If the teacher is trained they know how to properly handle their weapon.

My son is the same age as many of those killed by the way. Also as a side note I know as a parent what it is like to burry a child. I am not looking for simpathy just pointing out that I have a son that age and I also know the loss of a child and I still support this, so long as the teachers are properly trained.


Raist

I am at the point of pulling my 9 year old out of school and home schooling him. The security as his school is practically nonexistent. All visitors are suppose to check in the office but there is no one one stopping someone from walking right into a class. My wife and I have skipped the check in process on a number of occasions and went right to my sons class without any hindrance or questions from the staff.

I think it is high time that we admit that our society is crumbling around us. Those who leave it up to the government or officials to protect them are setting themselves up for failure.

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by alldaylong
The people who carry out these crimes are mentally ill. They nearly always end up killing themselves. They won't be afraid if teachers have guns, because they want to die anyway.
You are all missing the blindingly obvious.

I think it is YOU who is missing the obvious.

If there was a single teacher armed in that school, you would not have 20 dead kids or 6 dead teachers. Instead, you'd have one dead thug who intended to do harm to those children.

It is very simple. Do you want these "mentally ill" individuals to shoot kids and then shot themselves or get shot before they could shoot kids?

You make it sound so simple but in reality you haavn't a clue have you? Do you know how difficult it is for a normal "Sane" person (in this case a teacher) to shoot another human being? You may learn a lot from this:-

www.military-sf.com...

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by alldaylong
The people who carry out these crimes are mentally ill. They nearly always end up killing themselves. They won't be afraid if teachers have guns, because they want to die anyway.
You are all missing the blindingly obvious.

As are you. The sooner the attacker dies the better. A lot of damage is done while victims wait for cops to arrive.

So you are saying school teachers should have a gun ready on top of their desk in case an intruder walks in and starts shooting. That is never going to happen. He takes the teacher out first before she has time to get his or her gun out.
I really cannot believe you think that the solution is to arm teachers. What happens if a child gets the gun out of the desk and starts firing it. Or do you suggest the teachers walk around with a holster.

If this wasn't so ridiculous it would be laughable. So your answer to stop mental people using guns is to give more people guns.

The solution is to treat the disease.

I didn't know we still had one teacher schools..... Multiple teachers multiple guns. And if an armed assailant has to deal with an armed teacher first .. taht buys time for the first responders.

Its a win situation even if the teacher goes down... but if schools have more teachers well.. you do the math.

The disease is mental people. Armed people are a deterrent for these people to commit violent acts in those gun free zones.. These mental people attack gun free zones. Does any of this sink in??

Originally posted by votan

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by alldaylong
The people who carry out these crimes are mentally ill. They nearly always end up killing themselves. They won't be afraid if teachers have guns, because they want to die anyway.
You are all missing the blindingly obvious.

As are you. The sooner the attacker dies the better. A lot of damage is done while victims wait for cops to arrive.

So you are saying school teachers should have a gun ready on top of their desk in case an intruder walks in and starts shooting. That is never going to happen. He takes the teacher out first before she has time to get his or her gun out.
I really cannot believe you think that the solution is to arm teachers. What happens if a child gets the gun out of the desk and starts firing it. Or do you suggest the teachers walk around with a holster.

If this wasn't so ridiculous it would be laughable. So your answer to stop mental people using guns is to give more people guns.

The solution is to treat the disease.

I didn't know we still had one teacher schools..... Multiple teachers multiple guns. And if an armed assailant has to deal with an armed teacher first .. taht buys time for the first responders.

Its a win situation even if the teacher goes down... but if schools have more teachers well.. you do the math.

The disease is mental people. Armed people are a deterrent for these people to commit violent acts in those gun free zones.. These mental people attack gun free zones. Does any of this sink in??

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land. There is no deterrent for a lunatic. You expect them to think the same as you and i. I have news for you. They don't. These fruitcakes expect to die through their actions, in fact i would go as far as saying that they probably crave it.

Originally posted by alldaylong

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land. There is no deterrent for a lunatic. You expect them to think the same as you and i. I have news for you. They don't. These fruitcakes expect to die through their actions, in fact i would go as far as saying that they probably crave it.

You're right. So would you rather they be killed right away or in about 20 minutes?

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by alldaylong

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land. There is no deterrent for a lunatic. You expect them to think the same as you and i. I have news for you. They don't. These fruitcakes expect to die through their actions, in fact i would go as far as saying that they probably crave it.

You're right. So would you rather they be killed right away or in about 20 minutes?

You may have overlooked this:-

www.highbeam.com...

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by Rubic0n

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by alldaylong
The people who carry out these crimes are mentally ill. They nearly always end up killing themselves. They won't be afraid if teachers have guns, because they want to die anyway.
You are all missing the blindingly obvious.

As are you. The sooner the attacker dies the better. A lot of damage is done while victims wait for cops to arrive.

So you are saying school teachers should have a gun ready on top of their desk in case an intruder walks in and starts shooting. That is never going to happen. He takes the teacher out first before she has time to get his or her gun out.

You are creating situations in your imagination right now,hollywood style.

Following that reasoning that you are giving so absolutely would require that school to consist of 1 classroom,1 teacher.

For instance, Is a shooter that enters a school and that starts shooting already in a classroom by definition ?
The answer clearly is : no

But lets assume that he is. If another teacher or most or all other teachers in the school in other classrooms hear the gunfire and have access to a gun somehow ,how does that example that you so definitely gave play out for the purp then?

I really cannot believe you think that the solution is to arm teachers. What happens if a child gets the gun out of the desk and starts firing it. Or do you suggest the teachers walk around with a holster.

If schools were to be outfitted with guns, lets say 1 gun in every classroom. Then do you think they would just say "okay lets dump a gun in every teachers drawer and be done with it" ....or.... they would install a metal gun box with a lock in each of those classes and have responsible training programs setup to support it.

Which method is more likely to happen after a lot of debate before a idea like this is ever to be purposed and used ,your own dreamed up unorganised solution or the one i just sketched ?

If this wasn't so ridiculous it would be laughable. So your answer to stop mental people using guns is to give more people guns.

The solution is to treat the disease.

I am sorry but the only ridiculous and laughable thing i see i responses like yours.

So lets assume guns are banned, illegal. Do criminals like murderers and such all of a sudden stop bearing guns? Killing someone is also illegal , do you suppose that someone that intends to kill people will care much about carrying guns illegally ?

Let us look at some of your ridiculous replies.

Teachers hear gun fire coming from a class room and run to help. How many children have been shot in the meantime? What happens if the shooter barricades the door to stop entry by anyone else?

There would still be 1 person in the classroom with a gun besides the gunmen.

The gun is locked in a steel box within the classroom.. Does the teacher say "Hang on Mr Gunman you can't start shooting untill i have unlocked this box and got my gun out?

Uhm no, usually if a person hears gunfire in their school they do not wait for the shooter to enter.

What happens if the gunman is a parent of one of the children at the school who has a legitimate reason for being in the school? Do you bar all parents from attending schools?

That is the exact same argument that the pro-gun lobby uses you do realize don't you ? So you agree that banning guns just because 1 person missuses it is ridiculous ?

As a final question, would you want your child to be in a school classroom where a loaded gun is kept?

If i can keep one at home 24/7 to protect my child then would i disagree with my child's teacher being able to do the same thing in the same manner?

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by alldaylong

You really do live in cloud cuckoo land. There is no deterrent for a lunatic. You expect them to think the same as you and i. I have news for you. They don't. These fruitcakes expect to die through their actions, in fact i would go as far as saying that they probably crave it.

You're right. So would you rather they be killed right away or in about 20 minutes?

You may have overlooked this:-

www.highbeam.com...

Overlooked what?

Are you just trying to find any situation where a teacher or guard armed with a firearm couldnt do anything to stop an assailant as a far away sniper?

You really want to play this game? You give me a sniper or a bomber and I give you a close attacker or a DGU?

Why not just say that you'd prefer a lunatic to rampage freely for 20 minutes killing cowering children rather than stop him right away?