What if someone came for your guns?

Originally posted by JackyMenace
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

In the area I live, the cops are fat and lazy. All the citizens are hicks, so they are pretty much in shape and like to shoot anything they can. I doubt many people around here would be taken out by a cop in their own home. I would never want to kill anyone so maybe I would just hide it. I would rather fight than go to jail though. Might think that's stupid of me, but that's me.

You can have Andy Griffith for your Sheriff and it won't make a bit of difference if a standoff with police is what you choose. The fat donut lovers you know and hate have radios and phones....and the state police and FBI have phones on the other end to ring when called. Sheriff Porky and his Deputies you may laugh at will simply move aside and go back to eating when the State Police and Feds show up with their convoys of whatever force they figure the situation requires (Plus about 5000% like Gov't is apt to do)

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


Theres no way the UN or any other foreign power would help as its a domestic problem and would be political suicide once the body count started to climb on both sides

If they wanted to get more guns off the street then they should do a buyback scheme so its worth gang bangers handing in some of their weapons

reply to post by Maxatoria
Didn't they give people like 50 bucks for their guns the last time that happened? If they did something like that with a bigger payout and only did it in high crime areas, that would probably work a little better.

To everyone debating this issue, please read this letter written 12 years ago by a woman named Mary Carpenter who has more of a "right" to speak on this issue than any of us. www.examiner.com...

reply to post by Maxatoria


I agree it would cause major issues, but it is more likely than our own troops as we seen during Kat. in LA.

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge

Originally posted by JackyMenace

DO NOT ANSWER THIS TYPE OF QUESTION!!!!!!

This is a Government stooge question. ATS should politely remove this thread as it may get people killed or jailed at the least.

It was a hypothetical. Had it been a real scenario I doubt anyone would be so silly as to answer. THe govt is not going to come knock on my door and ask for my guns. Nor will the govt come to my home and arrest me for saying I lost said guns in a hunting mishap.

Nor does the govt care at this moment where my arsenal is nor do they care one iota about little old me.

In the future that could change. However at this moment in time...it is a non issue.

Two of my best friends from high school joined the military. One Army, one Marines. The Army friend is no longer active and admitted to me he would confiscate guns if he was order too. The other buddy who joined the Marines, now works for a mercenary agency, so yeah...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
You can have Andy Griffith for your Sheriff and it won't make a bit of difference if a standoff with police is what you choose. The fat donut lovers you know and hate have radios and phones....and the state police and FBI have phones on the other end to ring when called.

Do you think the rest of the population does not have radios and telephones?
What about word of mouth. People walking door to door?

Let us follow this thing through a progression here. A little logical exercise so to speak.

The force that is designated to sweep the town starts and one end, and starts working toward the other end.
They get done terrorizing a few houses.
Word spreads quickly in small towns.
People saying that that big group of ATF and military vehicles is doing a sweep for weapons.
They have already swept a few houses and are working their way across the town.
Thy just left grandpa Andrew ,someone that everyone knows, who is a half crippled and harmless friendly guy, bloodied and beaten or dead because they found an old 22 pistol that he would not voluntarily give up.


It would be an awakening like you have never seen.

In every freaking house in the town, you would see people opening up attic windows, and rifle barrels pointing out of them.

Pretty soon, it would be an absolute free for all. There would be so much incoming lead that if an agent so much as stuck his head out of an armored vehicle, he would be a dead man. The entire area would be a kill zone.

They would not be aiming for the chest. People know they have body armor on. They will be aiming for the head.

It is not the people currently being terrorized, or the people that have been terrorized that are the force to be reckoned with. It is the people that stand in the wake of the assault.

If you are unlucky enough to be one of the first people raided, then it is best you just cooperate as much as needed to get them out of there. That way you can contact your other neighbors to start the ball rolling. Do not worry about the people that terrorized you. They are already walking dead men.

And here is the key point as to why armored vehicles do not make you invincible to an armed populace.
You can not live in that armored vehicle the rest of your life. You have to come out sooner or later. To eat, go to the bathroom, or go back home. As soon as you steep out, you are dead meat.

The only way you will have a chance of surviving is stick a white flag out before you stick your head out, and hope someone doesn’t just kill you for the heck of it, anyways.

The only way they could win a battle like that is have a full on armed assault on each and every town. There is one logistical problem with that though. There is not enough armed troops in the world to take on every city and town in the US at once.

reply to post by Mr Tranny


This is exactly what I have been telling people it is a lagistical imposibility to disarm america, peacfully expecially.

reply to post by Mr Tranny

You're speaking hypothetical like SO many are on anything relating to guns. It's a safe place out there in the land of pure theory. Anything can happen and it can always work out how you like it.

I'm trying to be realistic and pragmatic. The OP asked what someone should do if they came for your guns..or what would each of us do. Well, as I said out the gate... You can let them search (and insure there is nothing to find by owning none or ...nothing around for them around to find ..) or you can be crushed flat. YOU CANNOT FIGHT THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AND WIN. PERIOD. EVER. END OF STORY. STOP DREAMING THAT. Other people may start to believe it and do rash or foolish things......and that would be a tragedy to be sure.

Now, you suggest there could be support... an uprising to save the homeowner being stripped of their guns? Well ask Randy Weaver of Ruby Ridge, Idaho how all that community uprising and support worked out....and he was IN the community where that was far more likely to happen THEN, then it is NOW. Nothing happened but that his place got shot up, Vicky Weaver was shot and killed as was his son, Sammy. That is what it looks like when you try and fight the USG nose to nose and straight on. You get killed. Period. It's not even a meaningful death. It's a sad one. There are ways to fight the system but direct violent confrontation isn't among them. That's suicide, not bravery.

Revolution isn't the answer. It's a far larger problem to create than the screwed up system we have. We can't get people to even get off their butts and VOTE...and you figure people will help rebuild a stronger nation? We have a long way to go in people taking pride in their own life...before thinking there is much hope in popular uprising to any positive outcome.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You are forgetting one major factor. The reactivity/sensitivity of the population that the government is interacting with. The reactivity is always variable depending on standing condition.

I think of the population’s reaction in the same way I understand a reactive substance in a supercritical state.
(Physics is one of my strong points so I tend to look at a lot of things through that lens.)

When something is in a sub critical state, you can hit it, shine light on it, shake it, or apply spark or fire, and it will do nothing. It is an innocuous substance. Any reaction applied to it will not propagate through the substance.

When you apply heat and pressure to that substance, then you increase the reactivity of that substance.

Apply enough heat/pressure, and it will reach a critical state. At the critical state, it will propagate a reaction through the substance. Any one part of the substance will combust after the other part of the substance next to it has already burnt and heated the part next to it. A slow conflagration. Hit it, or Apply spark, and it will burn slowly.

When you heat/compress it past it’s critical state, it becomes supercritical. It is no longer a slow combustion. It becomes a detonation. A substance in that state is highly sensitive to anything that will start a chain reaction. Even the background noise can set it off.

The population is the same way to an extent.
In an unstressed population. You can have an act of violence by the government. A raid on the wrong home. An innocent dead person here or there. The population as a whole will not react. You may get a localized reaction, but it will not spread.

When you stress that population, you increase the “heat/pressure” on the substance. It’s reactivity will go up.

At a critical point, the reaction to an event will start to spread through the neighborhood before it burns out. You start to get active backlash to certain events. You start to get wider spread brush fires, so to speak. You may even have people shooting at government buildings or the like.

When you push people past that critical state, then you have a bomb on your hands. When a sizable portion of the population is just looking for a reason to go off, then any perturbance will quickly spread throughout the population at an ever accelerating pace.

The news of agents moving through the US performing sweeping gun confiscations would drive the population WAY past critical. It would turn up the heat to an astronomic level.

It may take the smallest event to trigger the explosion. An agent smacking a child that won’t shut up, a military person shooting an old man that tried to stop them from forcefully entering his house. The person that sees the triggering event and starts the reaction may be a family member, or it may be a neighbor a quarter mile away looking at the situation through a pair of binoculars.

At some point, someone is just going to say “F&@% IT”, pull his rifle out of the closet, take aim, and fire.

Once the first supersonic crack reverberates across the landscape, and the first agent drops to the ground with half his head blown off. Then it’s off to the races. The other people in the neighborhood will see the situation that is transpiring. When they start to hear the first cracks reverberating across the landscape, they will quickly muster arms and join in. The revolution will have begun.

You keep saying that you can’t win against the US military. The US military is comprised of the US population. They live here. If the population turns against them, then they have no place to go home to. They would have no food to eat. As I said, you have to go home sooner or later. When you have lost your home, then you have already lost. Any resistance past that point is just prolonging your death.

The troops intrinsically know that too. If they are forced to decide between revolt, or killing their own families, then they will revolt against the command structure.

reply to post by Mr Tranny

Well, lets see... I'm going to take your 2 main points here in reverse. First one. I'm not saying we cannot win against the military. I'm saying it's so far outside reality it's absurd to consider. Far better we hope the Military chooses not to turn it's weapons on Americans and that is what I'm personally counting on seeing happen IF..God forbid.. IF...push ever came to that hard a shove. We're talking days far darker than we've yet seen before we see that happen.


Now on your other point in talking about building pressure and the cumulative effect of injury and grievance, I tend to agree. It will and is building over time and this is happening at various levels world wide. However, it is NOT happening in the United States at anything remotely like the level it would take to do more than be rampaging criminals...not "rebels".


Occupy again stands as an example to use as it does on many things of this nature. At the height of things in Oct into Nov of 2011 for 24/7 camps and when I was directly involved with it, there were 4.25 million people in camps around the world either directly affiliated with Occupy or in Solidarity to it. That was amazing to be a part of..............until I rejoined the real world and even my own friends and family didn't know much more than the name as mentioned on the news at some point. Oh..Wow...Fail on all levels to thinking THAT had any impact on any average person. Numbers.....it never got remotely close to enough and it turned away from trying FAR FAR too early to carry it's own energy, IMO.

So.. Until America even has the numbers for peaceful protest that matter, talking more is pointless. Israel? 400,000 people in October of 2011 in protest on the street for the rent being too high. Egypt? Over 200,000 people recently to remind Morsi he isn't a Pharaoh and near twice that at the height of the effort to bring down Mubarak.

Occupy had 30,000 people in the largest single movement I know of...which happened in Nov of 2011 in New York City. It was the second march on the Bridge and got those numbers by crossing with and joining numbers from a Union/Organized Labor protest. Err.... Oakland had similar. 30k vs. 200-400k? We aren't even in the ballpark yet.

All this talk about Guns and if they should be legal or not. I am glad that they are not legal in the UK because if they were I would most certainly be dead. I would have shot myself a long time a go, too easy to do in a time of craziness.

reply to post by JibbyJedi


Holy hell. How do people watch this and not realize that there exists a portion of the population that will come for your weapons?

Shame on those kids. These military "children" who think themselves righteous. I'd love for someone to find these "gun grabbers" today and ask them today if they believe in what they did.

Before you wonder about my position on the military, glance over at my avatar. I've got room to talk

reply to post by michael1983l


No if you were serious at all you would just find another way, that is probably the silliest thing I have heard here today thanks for the chuckle...wow I needed that!

Originally posted by michael1983l
All this talk about Guns and if they should be legal or not. I am glad that they are not legal in the UK because if they were I would most certainly be dead. I would have shot myself a long time a go, too easy to do in a time of craziness.

Dude! Don't think that way

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by michael1983l

 

No if you were serious at all you would just find another way, that is probably the silliest thing I have heard here today thanks for the chuckle...wow I needed that!

Your avatar is awesome.

If your not employed in the creative design industry, you should be

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Occupy again stands as an example to use as it does on many things of this nature.

The occupy movement?

Most of the people that are inclined to take up arms in a revolt, think the occupy people were just useful idiots that were being used to push something far worse than our own government currently is..

If anything, I view the occupy movement as a retarding agent/contaminant that reduces the reactivity of the population. Most of the reactive particles in the reactive substance has a negative reactivity to the contaminant.

The more active the occupy movement was, the less likely it was for the population to react to any initiating event by the government.

When a patriot is forced to choose between a badly behaving government, and a known subversive outside influence, the patriot will chose the support the government.

Without the subversive outside influence, the patriot is less restrained when it comes to challenging the wrong doings of the government because they don’t have to worry about undermining their own sovereignty for an outside influence to take advantage of.

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


Not really, there isn't many instant painless suicides available to the general public. You don't have to think about pulling the trigger, you do have to think in the 5 hour period your body shuts down in when you overdose. I guarantee you I would be dead if I could get hold of a gun when I have been in my darkest hours.

reply to post by michael1983l


You should seek the help and council of friends and/or family.