The Bible is the literal word of God, Discuss?

I agree with you. I went to catholic school for the first and second grades and what I remember most is the high amount of discipline. They demanded complete order at all times and were made to pray before class each and every morning. At such an age where kids retain so much information so quickly and the main teachings were of jesus so to speak not math,science or english.

Why is it so important that everybody has to believe? Imagine if a presidential candidate did not believe in god! There is no way he would be elected. Believers would never let that happen even though this man is not evil so to speak. They say if you don't then you'lll go to hell. Well I'll take my chances with hell. I don't like what I've read in the bible.

Everyone may believe what they wish. I have no problem with that but it's not to be forced or to be treated any differently.

Originally posted by LadyV
There's no possible way that it is....it was written by man and then re written and torn apart each time it didn't suit whomever was re writing it.

Originally posted by bigdanprice
I am suprised no one else has stepped in to air their views...
I agree though Lady V...

I also agree with LadyV.

As to why noone stepped into the air? (namely myself)...

I thought that it was a 'given' that people knew it's NOT THE LITERAL word of God. As Lady has said, "it was written by man and then re written and torn apart each time it didn't suit whomever was re writing it."

nuff said...

I feel compelled to share my story. I have three children. All are healthy and happy. Two are twins. When the twins were born, there was a heart murmer found with my daughter. After much testing, it was discovered that she had a hole in her heart and a malfuntioning valve. At the time, my wife had me going to church, but I was not saved. I had not given my life to Christ. When we had the consultation with the Pediatric Heart Surgeon, he informed us that one out of every 20 children dies from the surgury. At the time of the surgury, my daughter was 4 1/2 months old and only weighed about 9 pounds. Add to that, the fact that they have to shut down her heart completely to complete the procedure. It was a very stressful time in my life. I wondered if these problems had been caused by the way I had previously lived my life. Lots of drinking and drugs. The day that she went into surgury, I put all my faith and hope in God's hands. I can't explain what happened to me, except to say that during the surgury, my heart was filled with peace and love. God let me know that it would all turn out fine. She came out after five hours and she hasn't looked back since. My point is that you never know where or when God will find you. But he will. The trick is realizing it. God has a plan for all of us. Some people never see it, I'm just glad I did.

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life...
John 3:16

I would like to start by qualifying the attributes of a "True Mature Christian" one that has made it past the growing stages and mistakes that will be made as we "grow in grace" and has Matured to the Likeness of Christ.

Mark 16:14 � Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. [at meat: or, together]
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they " cast out devils" they shall "speak with new tongues "18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall "lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover "
19 � So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where,
the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with " signs" following. Amen.

Everyone that says they are a christian is not. The Bible clearly teaches that "HE" (that means anyone, including those that believe today) that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. (believeth means to continue to believe or to endure unto the end) and that those that believe not will be damned.

It then goes on to tell us of the "SIGNS" that would follow the true believers.

The first sign is Casting Out Devils (Demons, for there is only one Devil which is Satan, whom Jesus beheld as lightning falling from Heaven)
Most Mature Christians I fellowship with have this ability.

They shall " Speak With New Tongues " This has caused much confusion within the body of Christ. I will try to simplify it. The speaking in tongues refered to here is the " Prayer Language Of The Believer, it is how God reveals things for believers to pray for. After we have prayed for all the things we could think to pray for, it is than that the "Spirit Of God" maketh itercession.
Ro 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Ro 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. [because: or, that]

This Speaking in tongues is not the same as the " GIFT OF TONGUES" (divers kinds of tongues and interpretation of tongues as recorded in 1Cor 12 and they serve two different funtions. The first is a believers prayer language, the second or Gift of Tongues is used to Prophesy and to interpret a Prophecy.

They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover
True Mature Christians should manifest the "Laying On Of Hands" and the sick being healed.

All These Signs And Other Signs Were Manifested By The Early Church And They Are The Same Things That Jesus Did

I will start from this point:
The first proof that the Bible is God's word and is accurate is the FACT that there are many people that take the Bible just as it is written and they get the results that the Bible says you should get. It is only True Christians that have the ability to Heal The Sick, through the Spirit of God. Cast out Devils and manifest the other Gifts of the spirit. This is a Fact that can be verified, I saw an earlier reply in this post where a man gave his testimony of God's power to heal. I have found that it is always the people that have no annointing from God are the same ones that try to find excuses as to why they don't have any signs following them. Anywhere I go that I find others trying to decide who is right and who is wrong and what religion is true, I give them the same challenge. I will go with them to any Hospital and allow them to pray for a sick person and see if their system of belief or god will cause the sick to be healed. I would then pray for the sick person and God will heal them, a very easy way to prove who's who, and that God is still very much "ALIVE AND WELL" I will stop here to answer some questions .

I have a few questions and would like some clarification. I will admit to having read only some of the Bible and am therefore ignorant to most of it.

1. If the Bible is the literal "word of God" then why was it changed some during the Reformation and Counter-Reformation. ( or was it changed)

2. How can a Religous text that states only those who repent their sins and except Jesus as their savior be so right when humanity existed long before Christianity. Are the people who died prior to Christianity automatically going to hell.

3. How can a religion based on love and peace reconcile it's own history with the teachings proclaimed in the Bible. (Dark Ages, Castrati, Inquisition, etc.)

4. I spend a lot of time in the hospital, but the question is can I not be left alone by those who want to convert me even after I have politely asked them to leave me alone.

I do not ask these questions to belittle anyone, I am just trying to understand the incosistencies of actions over the teaching of Christianity.

No!

God didn't pen the old testament and JC never wrote the new!

I hope that answers the question.

Originally posted by bigdanprice
I mean really what do you think about the significance of things like the council of nicaea in your understanding of the bible being the literal word of God.

I've watched a video on how we got the Bible we have today and can't remember all the things that were done. By faith and seeing the faith of others and a personal relationship with God I believe it. Once you find out that God is real and hear Him speak you know. This is a simple answer and it will be blasted by some but I know what I've been through and how I've come to this point in my life. Each person has to decide for himself to trust Christ.

I have only done one reply and it seems to have shut the mouths of all the NaySayers, where are they at ? I was just getting warmed up.

Originally posted by dbrandt
You already know what those of us who believe in the Bible are going to say. We can't make you believe that the Bible is one of the ways God talks to us. You have decided to not believe the truths that are in it.

He didn't say it has no truth. He said the whole thing can't be taken literally. It obviously can't, or can't be taken to be so without comming into conflict with the evidence. It can be accepted as a matter of 'faith' that ones understanding of it is the literal truth, but even that stance has to accept that the interpretations aren't set in stone and that the bible even contradicts itself at times.

would it make any difference to him if he knew the men were carrying Bibles and had just come from a Bible study. The man admitted that it would.

And what does that have to do with it being literal truth? Its worth isn't the topic, its literal truth is whats being considered. Obviously people have found good stuff in it and its inspired some people to act with virtue.

I can't pay for my own sins, someone sinless has to otherwise he would have his own to pay for

What? Why?

His response was not something I heard with my ears but it was an internal answer in my spirit. He said, "You want me to save your mom, then listen to me". That is when God became real.

voidmatter
With my definition of God it couldn't be any other way.

Even tho the text of the bible has changed, even tho it wasn't compiled until long after the OT was written? Even tho the original maniscripts of the NT have never been found? Even tho the OT and the Gospel accounts contradict one another? Inspite of all that everything in the bible can and should be taken to be literally true?

The day that she went into surgury, I put all my faith and hope in God's hands [...]God has a plan for all of us. Some people never see it, I'm just glad I did.

I understand that you were telling this story because it was asked for, but why is it that people have these experiences and turn to god? Isn't it the doctors andn the medecine that has resulted in the person surviving or getting better? I mean, if there were no doctors or the medecine, then these people simply wouldn't survive. So if its all part of a plan, then is the surgery interupting it or helping the plan? When these cancers and defects were given to people in the past, was it the plan that they'd die, but now these things are used to make the person go thru surgery? And why is it that people find the good stuff that happens as supportive of the plan? Even the bad stuff that happens is part of it to, how come it never inspires anyone to faith?

is the FACT that there are many people that take the Bible just as it is written and they get the results that the Bible says you should get. It is only True Christians that have the ability to Heal The Sick, through the Spirit of God

Prayer and Faith Healing do not work, each of the few studies done on it show that it doesn't.

I will go with them to any Hospital and allow them to pray for a sick person and see if their system of belief or god will cause the sick to be healed. I would then pray for the sick person and God will heal them, a very easy way to prove who's who, and that God is still very much "ALIVE AND WELL"

And what about the people that are healed thru other religions, does that prove that their gods exist as well?

Why does everyone think there are massive deviations from translation to translation? Yes, the language changed. So what? From the books omitted, did someone find something that caused a great contradiction? Is there something missing from the grand picture with any of these changes? If so, what are they?

The topic seems to be a prying wedge that goes something like this: If there is one difference between the original and what we've read, then the whole thing is flawed and must be thrown out. We're trying to out-think God which by definition of God, is not possible. So believe there is a higher mind and try to understand it or do not believe. That is the task set before us.

The Bible is like map. The map of Arizona is not Arizona, but it'll tell you what's really there and how to get to where you want to go.

Originally posted by saint4God

Why does everyone think there are massive deviations from translation to translation? Yes, the language changed.

Sure, from multiple elohim to a trinity to just a supreme god, yada yada yada, minor stuff.



The topic seems to be a prying wedge that goes something like this: If there is one difference between the original and what we've read, then the whole thing is flawed and must be thrown out.
Thrown out? No. Taken literally, well, if there are contradictions and changes that have occured over time, it can't really be taken word for word literally can it?

We're trying to out-think God which by definition of God, is not possible. So believe there is a higher mind and try to understand it or do not believe.

Or beleive, but don't beleive that the bible is literal.

The Bible is like map. The map of Arizona is not Arizona, but it'll tell you what's really there and how to get to where you want to go.

Except the town names are changed, entire cities are missing, different counties were mapped at different times, and some districts aren't included because they're not really sure they exist. And the whole map is made out of copies of other maps, and no one's ever seen the original. Or been to arizona.

Other than that its fine.

Nygdan, which other religions heal people ?

The doctors have a purpose, because so many people lack faith they need to go to doctors. The best way is to walk in devine health and believe God to heal you if the devil attacks your body. The doctrine of many false prophets have watered down the gospel to a point where many no longer are taught or believe in the gifts of the spirit and having a annointing in their life. Many that are of the "Old School" still demonstrate the power of God in their lives and know how it works and would say to any "Show me your Faith and I will show you my Faith by my" Works"

Hey guys - Every generation has to consider this question - and be glad they do.

Por moi - after working in a large corporation and then government, I re-read the new testament. ...Almost every chapter read like a memo, communications strategy or policy document. Decided it was all internal politics about establishing a stable institution, and a pecking order. ...Next question: Does a religion have to be institutionalized to be one? OR: Does personal spiritual commitment qualify as religion?

RE: voice of God. If God exists, she is one very powerful being - and I doubt her communications could be accurately translated into any language. ...Most religions claim that the priesthood exists to mediate between God and man, and translate God's communications - personally, I think dreams better serve that function.

Hang in, and keep thinking.

you've never been to the doctor?

-DT

Since I have been a Christian, about 30 years, I have not been to the doctor for anything other than a physical for a job. I presently have no doctor and the last doctor I had was over 35 years ago.

The bible was assembled by bishops of the Universal Roman Religion, and for the New Testament, first century writings were selected or rejected according to how well they fit, or how well they could be made to fit, with the Universal doctrines of that religion.
The Universal Roman Religion and her daughters; the 30,000+ doctrinally disagreeing Christian sects and denominations, are duty bound to believe the doctrinal whims of their chosen sects, but for the non-aligned bible scholar who is free to form his own opinion, the greater context which flows with continuity through the whole bible, is the key to determining what to believe about the bible:-)

Should probably have a check-up now and again.
(I assume you don't take any vitamins)
Even if you are a devout believer in whatever,
We process almost all of our food these days, causing large loss in nutrients and vitamins. so I guess unless you live on a farm and grow all your own food...should probably get checked out once in a while.

Even though I'm only half following all this,
As far as the Bible/Koran or whatever being literal.
I'm going to say no.
If it was a set of rules to be literally taken at face value, not to be taken at your own interpretation, then you just killed off my free will.
without my free will, I am a slave.

Another fact that I brought up in some other topic is what if I'm some joe shmoe jungle dweller who never gets introduced to your black book?
Do I die a sinner for being ignorant?


-DT

Originally posted by Nygdan
I understand that you were telling this story because it was asked for, but why is it that people have these experiences and turn to god? Isn't it the doctors andn the medecine that has resulted in the person surviving or getting better? I mean, if there were no doctors or the medecine, then these people simply wouldn't survive.

If I remember correctly, almost all ancient or "primitive" people had a Medicine Man or Priest (ess) that jointly handled the Religious and Physical well-being of the members of the community. It is only in the last few centuries that we "civilized" people broke from that tradition. It was a fairly good match because sometimes you need more than just a physical healing.
As far as the thread title, The Bible is the Literal word of God, Discuss.....
Well, I think the bible was written Literally, Figuratively AND Symbolically.
You need to read it to find the context. If literal, it means just what it says.
If Figurative, it is explained by the context, that is how it is used.
If Symbolic, it is explained someplace in the scriptures, possibly immediately, possibly not.
I find that when I pray for understanding before reading, it helps. I learn much more. I guess that would be an example of answered prayer that is visible to only me.

BigDanPrice asked:

It is obvious that God is reinterpreted in the new testament. Is it a different God? I am throwing the question out there but I would like to see it, for a change, in an environment where people can express their feelings without being shot down, I would like to see some logical argument to support faith and indeed a historlogical allegory interpretations.

. In the Bible God said he would change things in regard to His Law and that would change his relationship to mankind. I hope the following answers your question. The quotes are from the Bible, New Century Version. I have compared several translations and find the words different, but the meanings are very similar. The basic differences are like those between "Hello, Hi. and Howdy".
From the Old testament, Jeremiah 31:

31 "Look, the time is coming," says the Lord, "when I will make a new agreement with the people of Israel and the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the agreement I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring them out of Egypt. I was a husband to them, but they broke that agreement," says the Lord. 33 "This is the agreement I will make with the people of Israel at that time," says the Lord: "I will put my teachings in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Everything that follows is from the New testament.
Jesus indicates the change mentioned in Jeremiah in Matthew 22

36 "Teacher, which command in the law is the most important?" 37 Jesus answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.' 38 This is the first and most important command. 39 And the second command is like the first: 'Love your neighbor as you love yourself.' 40 All the law and the writings of the prophets depend on these two commands."

Gentiles (non-Jew) are now accepted by God under the new system according to Romans 2

14 (Those who are not Jews do not have the law, but when they freely do what the law commands, they are the law for themselves. This is true even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that in their hearts they know what is right and wrong, just as the law commands. And they show this by their consciences. Sometimes their thoughts tell them they did wrong, and sometimes their thoughts tell them they did right.)

That Jew and Gentile can serve and worship together in the new system is confirmed in Ephesians 2.

11 You were not born Jewish. You are the people the Jews call "uncircumcised." Those who call you "uncircumcised" call themselves "circumcised." (Their circumcision is only something they themselves do on their bodies.) 12 Remember that in the past you were without Christ. You were not citizens of Israel, and you had no part in the agreements with the promise that God made to his people. You had no hope, and you did not know God. 13 But now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away from God are brought near through the blood of Christ's death.

By the way I find that most things, especially the really important stuff gets repeated for emphasis, sometimes with different details. This unfortunately results in some claiming that the bible offers conflicting accounts.

Derek Trance, to answer your question about people who live in the remote parts of the earth and have no Bible. I have had that question asked many times before. God has revealed to me that in those cases he would speak to one or more of the inhabitants by his spirit, ( the same way he speaks now to those how truly know him ) and he would give them the same message of salvation to teach to the others. To those that reject it, it is the same as rejecting the written word. After all, before the Bible was written, God spoke to men by his spirit.

The Bible, new Testament, and other books were changed many times through the first 400 years of Christianity. They were changed in the ecοumenical councils that took place in the greater Greek/middle east area. There are historical accounts of this fact.

Of course one can say that these changes where God-inspired.