Another gun killed a person

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posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by whatsecret
 


Wow, lookie here, according to the CDC, there are approximately 80,000 deaths caused by alcohol...But it's unfair to blame the alcohol right? It's not the alcohol that killed those people, it was the irresponsible use of the alcohol that killed them.

I mean, you can't just walk into a store and buy alcohol, right? Kids don't steal it out of their parents cabinets, right? I'm sure the booze is locked in an appropriate cabinet by responsible alcohol users so kids can't get to it.
edit on 13-12-2012 by Feltrick because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by whatsecret
reply to post by NoSoup4U
 





A lib at work said that they needed to ban guns for the month of December because that is when suicides are the highest in any given month


Ask him or her how this can be accomplished. Do people turn their guns in for December or do the cops go door to door and collect guns?


Very good point! Honestly, I am an Independent. His comment didn't surprise me because it is the normal illogical crazy comment we hear from liberals all the time.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by whatsecret
 
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

“guns don't kill people”

I get tired of this BS NRA catchphrase, and it is utter BS...
Yes, guns kill people (well technically bullets do). They only have one intended function, even though some may use them for other purposes, their primary function is still to kill. Guns have also killed people through accidents, including when not being handled by a person. How do NRA zealots even justify such asinine remarks when roughly 1500 people per year are killed in accidental discharges? How do they explain someone who is shot by a round that is, for example, “cooked-off” in a firearm?

Then lets discuss the psychological effects of carrying a gun. A person who carries a gun is 4.5 times as likely to get shot themselves, and is more likely to end up in violent situations because they feel more confident in facing confrontation. They are also more prone to think of a gun as a solution to a problem, then those do do not own guns. Also those who use guns on a frequent basis, and are avidly into hunting, have an inherent desensitization to using a gun for killing.

Take it from me, someone who had two family members murdered by someone who grew up in an environment where he was desensitized to shooting and killing, that these things are in fact true. If this person had not grown in that environment, and not felt that guns were a viable solution to his problems, I'd still have two more living relatives to this day...

Time for a new excuse to justify your desire to own guns folks...

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 12/13/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by Feltrick
reply to post by whatsecret
 


Wow, lookie here, according to the CDC, there are approximately 80,000 deaths caused by alcohol...But it's unfair to blame the alcohol right? It's not the alcohol that killed those people, it was the irresponsible use of the alcohol that killed them.

I mean, you can't just walk into a store and buy alcohol, right? Kids don't steal it out of their parents cabinets, right? I'm sure the booze is locked in an appropriate cabinet by responsible alcohol users so kids can't get to it.
edit on 13-12-2012 by Feltrick because: (no reason given)


Most alcoholics get many opportunities to stop drinking but don't. Kids drink and do drugs and sniff glue. sometimes kids cross the street without looking both ways. Some kids use prescription drugs their parents are on.

What's your point?

This is how I deal with it . My kids know the danger of alcoholism and drugs, they also know what can be done with a gun. They know these things because I told and showed it to them. A drunk with liver cirrhosis sleeping next to liquor store is messed up but just because this is what he did to himself doesn't mean that alcohol should be illegal for everybody else.

Educate your kids, show them the drunk on the corner, teach them how to handle a gun, take them to a shooting range so that they see what you can do with a gun. You don't need any law for making sure that no one dies of alcohol poisoning or accidental shooting.
edit on 13-12-2012 by whatsecret because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by whatsecret
 


My point is that alcohol is a far worse killer than any gun. My point is that it's easier to get your hands on a bottle of beer than a gun. My point is that alcohol destroys more families and causes more violent behavior than a gun.

Irresponsibility, whether it be with a can of PBR or an AR15, destroys our society. Banning something doesn't cause the problem to go away, it just makes it more fun to get.

Guns don't kill, Irresponsible people with guns do. Just like alcohol...the irresponsible use of alcohol kills far more people in many different ways than guns do. Glad you educate your kids, but even the educated have alcohol problems.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by whatsecret
 
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

“guns don't kill people”

I get tired of this BS NRA catchphrase, and it is utter BS...
Yes, guns kill people (well technically bullets do). They only have one intended function, even though some may use them for other purposes, their primary function is still to kill. Guns have also killed people through accidents, including when not being handled by a person. How do NRA zealots even justify such asinine remarks when roughly 1500 people per year are killed in accidental discharges? How do they explain someone who is shot by a round that is, for example, “cooked-off” in a firearm?

Then lets discuss the psychological effects of carrying a gun. A person who carries a gun is 4.5 times as likely to get shot themselves, and is more likely to end up in violent situations because they feel more confident in facing confrontation. They are also more prone to think of a gun as a solution to a problem, then those do do not own guns. Also those who use guns on a frequent basis, and are avidly into hunting, have an inherent desensitization to using a gun for killing.

Take it from me, someone who had two family members murdered by someone who grew up in an environment where he was desensitized to shooting and killing, that these things are in fact true. If this person had not grown in that environment, and not felt that guns were a viable solution to his problems, I'd still have two more living relatives to this day...

Time for a new excuse to justify your desire to own guns folks...

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 12/13/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)


I was gonna reply in detail but what's the point.

I will just say this.

I justify owning a gun for this reason.

I do not feel more confident because I have a gun, I learned how to use a gun to protect my family and that doesn't mean that in order to protect yourself with a gun you must shoot it. In most cases it's enough to tell the intruder that you have a gun and he will run away, if not you point it at him and if he still going after you then you shoot him.

They teach that you never shoot anybody in the back because if he is running away he is no longer a threat and the gun did it's job without firing a single shot.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by Feltrick
reply to post by whatsecret
 


My point is that alcohol is a far worse killer than any gun. My point is that it's easier to get your hands on a bottle of beer than a gun. My point is that alcohol destroys more families and causes more violent behavior than a gun.

Irresponsibility, whether it be with a can of PBR or an AR15, destroys our society. Banning something doesn't cause the problem to go away, it just makes it more fun to get.

Guns don't kill, Irresponsible people with guns do. Just like alcohol...the irresponsible use of alcohol kills far more people in many different ways than guns do. Glad you educate your kids, but even the educated have alcohol problems.


I misunderstood, and I totally agree with you.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


I agree with your points but, non of them are good reasons to rid the citizens of their right to own a firearm. Honestly, if you took all the guns away from the citizens then two things would be inevitable; the government and criminals would take over everything in this country. There is a reason why the Founding Fathers made this a Constitutional Right. They knew all to well what a tyrannical government is capable of when the citizens do not have the means to defend themselves from enemies that are foreign or domestic.

I was in the military for 10 years and I do want to shed some light on one of your stats. The majority of accidental discharge of a firearm is because of complacency or the lack of training. There is no doubt that all of those unintended actions are a tragedy. There are many accidents that happen to take people's lives each year. Cars, overdose, choking, alcohol, flying etc.....

Further, I agree that most people that buy a firearm is more confident in their security and most of the time it is a false security. Unless they train often and know when to pull their weapon, they are likely to pull it prematurely and loose their own life or end up in prison. I will pull mine only if it is my absolute last option to prevent harm to myself or family. Sometimes that decision needs to be made in New York minute. That is where the steady training regiment will pay dividends.

Lastly, I truly am sorry that you lost loved ones by the actions of despicable criminals. I have not experienced that before and I pray to God in Heaven that I never do. Also, I pray that I never have to take a life with my firearm either. Thanks for the good points and I hope you have a awesome day!



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by whatsecret
 


No problem, sorry for the misunderstanding. Seems ridiculous that people get more upset over the gun issue than they do about all the innocent lives murdered by drunk drivers.

That said, I believe in the responsible use of both guns and alcohol and never shall the two meet.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by whatsecret
 


But the syringe, nor the bleach were designed specifically with ending life.

And yes, all those things make a criminal, but we aren't discussing that now, are we.


guns/firearms are designed, made and manufactured to expel a 'hard pioint' projectile at high velocity... nothing more. nothing less.

spit balls on steroids, in a sense.

they are not 'specifically' engineered to kill, end a life, etc...

the INDIVIDUAL firing them DETERMINES THAT. (?)

i can run off a few thousand rounds in an afternoon and NEVER inflict harm on another INDIVIDUAL

I, as an INDIVIDUAL, can also fire off but a few and hurt, kill, maim That same number of INDIVIDUALS as shells expended.

DID THE 'GUN' DO THAT OR DID I, THE INDIVIDUAL!?


edit on 12/13/2012 by 12m8keall2c because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by 12m8keall2c
 


My point was that comparing an item which was designed to do one thing, with what they can be used for a two totally different things.

The syringe was (I think) created to administer medicines to the body directly into the blood stream (and later became used as a tool of death).

The gun WAS invented as a means of killing the enemy, no matter how much you dress it up in fancy ribbons, its original purpose was one of death.

Yes, some people use them for sport (including killing animals), some for fun shooting targets or clay pigeons, but the original intent remains the same.
edit on 13/12/12 by woogleuk because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by woogleuk
 


woogle,

i hafta agree with that, but guns don't kill people, nor do needles, hammers or screwdrivers, etc...

PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE .. and no matter or despite the method or means, if you restrict one, they'll find another..

my sole point, no matter if they were originally designed for such or NOT ..

PEOPLE are strange, when you're a stranger, faces look 'ugly' when you're alone.

Women seem wicked, when you're unwanted, streets are uneven .... and so on and so on.

It'll NEVER matter, the tool or task ... folks'll do what they feel they must no matter.

to restrict one is but merely to 'invigorate another. (?)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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I think a more appropriate title for this thread would be, "Another person kills," or "Another person dead." Something to that affect.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911
I think a more appropriate title for this thread would be, "Another person kills," or "Another person dead." Something to that affect.


I think the title was sarcastic, implying that an inanimate object just felt like murdering someone.

People kill people. Period.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by NoSoup4U
I agree with your points but, non of them are good reasons to rid the citizens of their right to own a firearm.

I never stated that they should remove the right to own firearms. What I said is the excuse that “guns don't kill people” is BS, which I believe that I have shown, and can further prove.


Originally posted by NoSoup4U
The majority of accidental discharge of a firearm is because of complacency or the lack of training.

Its also been lack of proper maintenance, and poor design. Stens and Glocks come to mind.


Originally posted by NoSoup4U
I will pull mine only if it is my absolute last option to prevent harm to myself or family.

Unfortunately I believe that you are a minority. Most buy them because they think they are “cool”, and make them “tough”. Just wander through our survival forum sometime, and you'll quickly realize that half the stuff in there is about showing off how “cool” folks guns are, and them fantasizing about some event where they will get to play Rambo/night of the living dead/mad max...


Originally posted by NoSoup4U
Lastly, I truly am sorry that you lost loved ones by the actions of despicable criminals.

It wasn't some random criminal, it was one of their children. One who was raised around a gun laden environment. Where hunting was the big family sport, as well as target and skeet shooting. He had been through all the classes, training, participated in competitions, etc... He would be someone that I would have expected to hear the above catchphrase come from.

Conversely, none of my other relatives family’s allowed guns at all, and none of use have ever gotten ourselves into a situation where we have needed one.


Originally posted by NoSoup4U
Thanks for the good points and I hope you have a awesome day!

Thanks, you too...


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
i can run off a few thousand rounds in an afternoon and NEVER inflict harm on another INDIVIDUAL

I, as an INDIVIDUAL, can also fire off but a few and hurt, kill, maim That same number of INDIVIDUALS as shells expended.

DID THE 'GUN' DO THAT OR DID I, THE INDIVIDUAL!?

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Again, what about accidental discharges?
The purpose of a gun is to kill, its its only purpose in existing. You can certainly use it for other things (skeet, target shooting), but all of those are essentially training for the time when you might have to kill something.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by CudiTheKid

Originally posted by Cosmic911
I think a more appropriate title for this thread would be, "Another person kills," or "Another person dead." Something to that affect.


I think the title was sarcastic, implying that an inanimate object just felt like murdering someone.

People kill people. Period.


I agree. There's no more stupid creature on this earth than us humans. I doubt there's another species so hell bent on destruction, both to ourselves and others. Self annihilation appears to be an integral part of the human condition, perhaps one of the many deleterious side effects of the short life-span.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:04 PM
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So did a person shoot this woman, or did a gun do it?



No charges filed in accidental shooting at Inlet Square Mall


Horry County police  will not file charges in connection with the accidental shooting at Inlet Square Mall Tuesday.
Just before a veterans pinning ceremony, a woman was shot in the leg when a gun went off inside another woman's purse.
The bullet went into the victim's right leg and lodged in her left leg.
Police said gun discharged when the woman placed her purse on the ground.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5
Most buy them because they think they are “cool”, and make them “tough”.


that's a rather gross generalization, to say the least.
MOST .... who. what. where, when and how ?

I've had the same firearms since i was but a mere kid, all of which were passed down from/by my father.

none of which make me 'feel cool' or 'tough' ... as they're quite mundane, plain and simple in the grand scheme of things.

however, they are and would be quite effective means of defense if/when the time ever should present itself.

those who would claim that it's the 'guns' and NOT the 'people' have typically proven or shown to me that they have little or no True Understanding or experience with the same - firearms.

guns are inanimate objects, and by mere deign/definition ARE incapable of inflicting harm unto others without some sort of outside influence or action - FACT.

to state or haphazardly claim and suggest otherwise is nothing short of ridiculous ... nonsensical or otherwise, to say the least. - THEY CANT PULL THEIR OWN TRIGGER(S).


However, it'll likely be a long time before people on the whole can or will come to such an agreement or understanding of that mere and SIMPLE, UTTER FACT.

GUNS [by themselves] DO NOT KILL PEOPLE!



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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ORLY?

Okay, since its not about the “look”...
Lets lobby for a law that says you can own any gun that you want....
….BUT....
It must be pink:

And have either
“Hello kitty” or “My Little Pony” decals on it...





...Then lets see how many folks still want to carry/own one because its so damn important for protection?





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