The 10 Commandments are Unnecessary, Irrelevant and Immoral

If so then..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Things are not as we think they are.

reply to post by charles1952

Not only that, the commandments work together to form circular logic for the purpose of breaking them.

For example, the commandments “Do not Kill,” “Do not steal,” and “Do not bear false witness” apply, unless we’re talking about our enemies. In that case, we must lie to our armies about how our enemies broke the 1st Commandment, “No other God” in order to kill them and steal from them. All cultures have done this, and still do this, today.

And here, I must disagree, but only because in the small space you have, you might have oversimplified a bit.

With respect,
Charles1952

I first had in mind writing the OP about the disconnect between the 10 Commandments and western society. Then I realized that they were used to justify the very acts that they forbid, in a convenient circular argument. The more I started writing down my thoughts the more complicated my thesis became. So, yeah, I had to trunicate my words.

In reality, each of the 10 Commandments could have it's own thread. But to explore this circular argument that I present, I need all the commandments.

Consider this circular argument:

While I was coveting my neighbors city, I observed the citizens following their god's laws. Since they aren't Hebrew, they worship a false god, so we must kill them, steal their land and commit adultery with their virgins.

How many commandments were constantly being broken with this clever justification for sin?

reply to post by windword


What I have noticed in the Genesis story of the garden was that neither of them accepted responsibility for their choice.

They cast the blame on someone else, instead of owning what choice they made and accepting responsibility.

We can choose to accept the choice we made and peddle the bike we got on, or just give up peddling and wait for someone to come pedal for us.

By the looks of things the latter seems to be true.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by windword

 

If the 10 commandments are so insignificant why is it so much trouble for you ? If it means nothing to you why is it a topic for you ? If God does not exist why does it torment you so? Is it because you despise the thought that some people live by a higher standard ? Why was this country founded on Christianity and the King James Bible recommended by our founding fathers ? Is there nothing else to debate with more meaning ? If the 10 commandments offend someone let them not read them . Nobody is trying to enforce the Ten Commandments but the Muslims are working to force Islam on everybody . That's the ones you need to worry about .

Obviously, you haven't read my posts. I don't need to explain myself to you. But I'll tell you what, when right wing fundamentalists stop trying to justify legislation based the 10 Commandments, wanting them on display in court rooms, taught in school and applied to secular law, I'll stop writing threads against these "Christian" issues.

Originally posted by Carreau
When will you be posting the other threads bashing every other major religion, or is your bigotry limited only to Christians? I eagerly await the Islam is immoral thread next.

I'm not addressing Christianity here. As a matter of fact, Jesus broke many of the commandments, and summed up their importance quite nicely.

JOHN 15:9-12
As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love.
10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. 1
12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

reply to post by windword

Dear windword,

Sorry. Didn't wait for your reply. I've just slapped myself. Allow me to address it. But first, I know that you are strong and thoughtful. You don't need me to defend you, but I don't see any indication that you are being bigoted, or even obnoxious. It seems like a good thread with fair comments in the OP, and I'm glad you put it up.

Disobeying God, by eating the fruit, was an exercise in "Free Will." This God doesn't seem to have much respect for free will, so I wonder if HE was actually the one who delivered it to humanity.

I love people and want to share with them, mechanical robots, not so much. That may have been what He had in mind. Without free will, I'd be a stone or a jellyfish or a dandelion. I'm grateful for the gift.

I know that scientist can identify genetic markers in the Hebrew people, but it makes me wonder about the lineage of the children that were born from the "spoils of war," and not "good Jewish girls", who where now a part of the Hebrew tribe.

I wouldn't be surprised if, genetically, there wasn't a "pure" Jew in the world. But, as you probably know, you can be a true Jew without any Jewish blood.

No, what I meant was that the 10 Commandment are "unnecessary" because of everybody in imbues with an innate immorality.

Again, I agree with you. There really wasn't much, if anything that was new in the Commandments. But we do need reminders when we're not paying attention.

They're irrelevant because, supposedly by the orders of their God, the Hebrews broke those commandments, and used them to justify what was forbidden.

I'm having a tough time with the idea that God told them to do something which God had told them not to do. Let me offer a guess. Remember it's pure speculation. Assuming that God knows everything, is it possible that these attacks were "preventive strikes" against a nation that was going to destroy them, physically or spiritually, if left alone? Again, just guessing, it's something that needs more thought.

They're irrelevant to us today, because they go against western philosophy of democracy, freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I would think they would apply regardless of the form of government you have. As for the others? I don't think they're absolutes. Pick any crime, sin, or perversion you can imagine, and somwhere you'll find a person who believes that they should have the freedom and liberty to engage in it, because that's what makes them happy.

I'm thankful for your posts. Those who think they are making a strong case against your ideas by criticizing you are on thin ice.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by Carreau
When will you be posting the other threads bashing every other major religion, or is your bigotry limited only to Christians? I eagerly await the Islam is immoral thread next.

I'm not addressing Christianity here. As a matter of fact, Jesus broke many of the commandments, and summed up their importance quite nicely.

JOHN 15:9-12
As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love.
10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. 1
12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

Jesus never broke a commandment. The Pharisees accused Him of breaking them because what He did was actually the correct way, which went against their ways; all of which had over time been turned from their true form to rituals and habits of arrogant display. They took the Sabbath and turned it into a day with many illogical restrictions. Sacrificing animals for repentance of sin to them no longer was a shadow of things to come, meaning they no longer thought of the sacrifice as a symbol of what the Messiah would do for the world when He died on the cross.

When Jesus taught the true way, the people flocked to Him to hear the Truth. The pharisees feared an uproar from the people, which they knew would end in their crowning Him the King of Israel, therefore pushing the Pharisees out of power.

The Pharisees also believed the Messiah would appear and rule the world immediately with a rod of iron during His first advent; yet another misinterpretation of the Scriptures. When Jesus told the disciples to love one another as He has loved them, He was summing up the last 6 of the 10 commandments. In short, each of the last 6 all come together to form the simple rule: Love your neighbor as you love yourself- or, as Jesus loves us. When He said to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, and mind, He was summing up the first 4 commandments. The first 4 all come together to form the simple rule: Love God with your whole being.

By loving God and putting Him first in everything we do, we will naturally strive to love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

Matthew 22:36-40(KJV)
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

reply to post by charles1952

It is a lie to use this commandment to profess that there is only one god. Moses knew this and his people knew this. Therefore, they could only profess that their god was the greater of the gods. This may be seen as hair-splitting, but if you see one god as greater than all the other gods then isn't that one the Supreme Being? Worshipping a "minor league" god was what was being prohibited. Baal worship, for example was a no-no.

I have no problem with the Israelites wanting to worship a "Supreme Being." But that wasn't Yahweh, and they knew it. It was El Elyon, The Most High God.

"When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. For Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance."
Deuteronomy 32:8 from the Dead Sea Scrolls

fuzzyquark.comxa.com...

It is my belief that Yahweh was a lower deity, making the 1st Commandment necessary in order for Yahweh to establish that he was THEIR god. Worshiping someone else's god was a nono, because Yahweh was a jealous god. Baal was an enemy of Yahweh, he made that clear.

In the case of the Israelites, the god that they summoned and got was the god of jealousy and wrath.

I lose you here. The Jews were dancing around and worshipping a golden calf when Moses came down with the tablets. He was so angry that he smashed the first set (if I remember correctly). Certainly, under the principle that you get the god you summon, the Jews should have wound up with a golden calf god.

Yeah, They were dancing around because they lost faith and heart in Moses to deliver the goods. They were angry and bunch of rable rousers that probably had hatched a plan to stone Moses when he came down from that mountain. They weren't dancing around as happy campers, they wanted someone to pay for their predicament.

They rejected their loving savior god in favor of an angry, wrathful, blood thirsty punisher. They got what they asked for.

Here is very interesting alternative to the traditional story of Moses and the original Ten Commandments, the ones that Moses broke. www.powerattunements.com...

Perhaps now it is, and I agree that our laws are set up differently from the First Commandment. But remember, those are the laws that we made and don't seem to apply to the world as a whole. Further, this was a commandment given to the Jews, not the people who believed differently. Christians have accepted it (thus, Judaeo-Christian), but I don't see where it is to be applied to others. Could people have used it as an excuse to fight or condemn? Yes, but I don't see anything commanding it.

Yahweh commands the Hebrews to go into cities and kill their inhabitants and steal the spoils of war, because the people who lived there were all wicked. In other words, the entire city worshiped different god than Yahweh, so they needed to die.

SECOND COMMANDMENT 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 .

Verse 4 shouldn't be taken by itself. You notice that verse 5 is the command not to worship "graven images" etc. It is recognized (except by Islam, and maybe some others), that these verses should be taken together to mean not to worship something you have made. I accept that interpretation. I don't quite follow the idea that the commandment was designed to keep people away from science and learning.

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

I don't see how you can't see it!?

You seem to agree that many great advances in the sciences were made by Christians, Jews, and even priests. I just don't see evidence for prohibitions on map making, for instance. Just had a thought. Weren't the Ten Commandments a "graven image" of letters? I'm just not able to agree with you here. If I'm missing something let me know. I also don't have any trouble with the idea that God will condemn those that hate Him and will be merciful to those that love Him. Seems reasonable to me.

The Torah, wasn't a graven image, it was the physical word of God, that laid protected within the Ark of the Covenant. When done correctly, the Torah is a dance, a song.





Kinda heady stuff!

reply to post by jeramie

It may come as a shock to realize that Jesus broke any commandments. But He did. And knowing which commandments He broke and why He broke them is important for you to understand.

Yes, you read it right: Which commandments did Jesus break? It may come as a shock to realize that Jesus broke any commandments. But He did. And knowing which commandments He broke and why He broke them is important for you to understand.
www.ucg.org...

reply to post by charles1952

I'm having a tough time with the idea that God told them to do something which God had told them not to do. Let me offer a guess. Remember it's pure speculation. Assuming that God knows everything, is it possible that these attacks were "preventive strikes" against a nation that was going to destroy them, physically or spiritually, if left alone? Again, just guessing, it's something that needs more thought.

HA! That reminds me of this video. If you don't want to, or don't have time to watch it, it starts out with Yahweh saving 250 people from dying in a plane crash. He gets upset because they don't praise and worship for it, because they were unaware of his awesome miracle. Finally, he realizes that when he doesn't intervene in disasters and when there are unlikely survivors, then people praise and worship him. So he decides to create more disasters, to get the praise. It's ironically funny, and follows with your theory.

I would think they would apply regardless of the form of government you have. As for the others? I don't think they're absolutes. Pick any crime, sin, or perversion you can imagine, and somewhere you'll find a person who believes that they should have the freedom and liberty to engage in it, because that's what makes them happy.

Granted. That's why we have laws, because there always going to be a "Cain" in a crowd of "Ables."

I'm thankful for your posts. Those who think they are making a strong case against your ideas by criticizing you are on thin ice.

Aw, thanks.

reply to post by SyntheticPerception


You might want to look a little closer ' The Rotunda was used as a church for 100 years and the military band played for it . The King James Bible was put forth as the recommended bible to use . Jefferson was the first president to bring to the Table that there should be a separation between Church and state . There has never been anything that says freedom FROM religion . This government has never tried to dictate what religion you should practice if any . The Freemasons who framed the Constitution were Protestants who escaped religious oppression of England .

reply to post by windword

Dear windword,

I'm taking a short mental vacation. Your posts are valuable, but they're also sometimes tricky for an old man with a tired brain.

Here's one that's a little easier for me:

It may come as a shock to realize that Jesus broke any commandments. But He did. And knowing which commandments He broke and why He broke them is important for you to understand.

Yes, you read it right: Which commandments did Jesus break? It may come as a shock to realize that Jesus broke any commandments. But He did. And knowing which commandments He broke and why He broke them is important for you to understand.

www.ucg.org...
From that article we can also find

Jesus emphatically did not break any of God's commandments. Not even the slightest detail!

The commandments Jesus broke were the commandments of men. When the Jews charged Jesus with breaking the Sabbath (John 5:18), they were accusing Him of violating their misguided human traditions regarding the Sabbath.

So the article is saying Jesus broke Man's commandments, but not God's.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by windword


Really ! Which one of the 10 commandments have you been oppressed by that has been a point of law . Was it committing adultery with another mans wife , thou shalt not kill , was it the lying thing, thou shalt not steel or was it the taking the Lords name in vain .Or is there some other thing not mentioned in the 10 commandments that hazards you .
I suppose you would really be upset about the 7th grade State of California curriculum that makes it mandatory for each student to;
1 Study the principles of Islam and study the Quran
2 Take a Muslim name and dress in the culture of Islam
3 Form their own Jihad and pray for like a Muslim .
This the kids had to do to pass the 7th grade .
The ACLU who attacks at the mention of the name of Jesus said , they viewed the class as a study of the culture of Islam and not a problem .
There is another cause for you .

reply to post by charles1952


Charles,

It's all good, take a mental break. It took me 5 days to get my thoughts together while writing my OP, and even now, it only displays hints of the fractured message I'm trying to get across.

I do hope you take the time, when the mood should strike, to watch those lecture videos, not the cartoon ones. The second one is almost 2 hours, but watching it will give you years of mind blowing information that you just can't sign up for in a university or Tuesday night Bible study.

I don't suppose that Jesus broke any of GOD's laws. It is my presupposition, that the meaning of the 10 commandments got lost in translation, and their enforcement became the epitomy of everything they forbid.

The profound simplicity of the message of Jesus is exactly the opposite of all the confusing laws about what not to wear and eat, when to stone a rebellious teenage or an adulterer or what the definition of "work" is, that can or can't be done on the Sabbath really means.

Thanks for the input. Talk to ya soon,
Windword

reply to post by SimonPeter


How about you pick something from my opening post that you have a problem with, and address that? Are you unable to have an intellectual discussion?

For a Christian, you certainly display a lot a of hostility and anger. Maybe you're the one who put up this sign?



I noticed that you don't have an Avatar. Feel free to use this picture, it fits you!

I'f you broke the 10 commandments you're on your own in this world you're litteraly at satans mercy

those that don't break the commandments are under gods protection you nor satan cannot touch these people

You cannot even SEE these people that is the power of god .

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
> The 10 Commandments are Unnecessary, Irrelevant and Immoral,

>Thou Shalt Not Kill

LOLWHUT!

That's all I'm saying.

You get just advance a level in both ignorance and inability to read.

What level are you in both?

Must be high as you clearly didn't read anything but the title of the thread.

It's important to understand that the "Ten Commandments" apply to Hebrews/Jews in their dealings with other Jews. Under the law, stealing from or killing a non-Jew is interpreted as being completely permissable, or at most, a misdemeanor.

I am partial to Wiccan philosophy.

I like the simplicity of two basic precepts.

1 - Do as it pleases you to do.
2 - Do harm to no-one.

If we all conducted ourselves in this manner the World would be an enormously pleasent place.

IMO

reply to post by windword


No answer ? I didn't think so !You don't have issues with the 10 commandments being forced on you . But there is something .
Could it be 2nd Timothy chapter 3 verse 1, 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6,or 7. Those are the signs of the times .