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The 10 Commandments are Unnecessary, Irrelevant and Immoral

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posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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The Ten Commandments are NOT the basis of western morality and are actually irrelevant and immoral according to western standards. They didn’t even provide a basis for morality for the Israelites. Not only that, the commandments work together to form circular logic for the purpose of breaking them.

For example, the commandments “Do not Kill,” “Do not steal,” and “Do not bear false witness” apply, unless we’re talking about our enemies. In that case, we must lie to our armies about how our enemies broke the 1st Commandment, “No other God” in order to kill them and steal from them. All cultures have done this, and still do this, today.



In the first place, there really was no need for God to write the Ten Commandments in stone, because, as per the biblical mythology of Adam and Eve, when they ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they were imbued with an innate morality, and knew right from wrong.



All ancient societies held a code of law, of what was the agreed upon morality of their nation.

The purpose of the Ten Commandments was to establish a national God to a brand new nation, the Israelites. They left Egypt and followed Moses to make a new nation, but wound up wandering the dessert for 40 years and ultimately warring with other established nations to take their land, cities and their resources, including their young women. They were an mixed group of people who agreed, for all intents and purposes, to all worship the same national god.

That God was Yahweh, or as some call him, Jehovah.

FIRST COMMANDMENT

2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Breaking this commandment was grounds for death among the Israelites and justification to war against their enemies, who honored their assigned “other gods.”

It is a lie to use this commandment to profess that there is only one god. Moses knew this and his people knew this. Therefore, they could only profess that their god was the greater of the gods.

I believe that we worship the god that we summon. In the case of the Israelites, the god that they summoned and got was the god of jealousy and wrath.



In western society we have freedom of religion and freedom from religion. Although religious zealots would like to claim that we do, we have no national god or gods. People are welcome to believe in the god of their choice or no god(s) at all.

Western society is based on freedom, liberty, democracy and self rule, opportunity and human rights and equality for all.

SECOND COMMANDMENT
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.


Designed to keep a nation in ignorance, this commandment condemns map making, the study of geology, astronomy, medicine and a host of sciences that make the quality of life easier and longer.

Obviously the freedom of expression is highly regarded and rewarded. Universities, libraries and even religious institutions have employed the scientific studies to better themselves and society.

This commandment has been exploited to keep people in the dark ages, to stifle ingenuity and was largely ignored by the very people attempting to enforce it, for their own political gain.



FOURTH COMMANDMENT
8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This commandment has a nice sentiment, but obliviously was taken too far. Things happen, even on the Sabbath, children were born and women needed midwives to work, valuable livestock gave birth and still were attacked by predators, needing stewardship, even on the Sabbath. People died and got sick, bad weather, earthquakes and even volcanoes erupt on the Sabbath. Even Jesus healed people on the Sabbath!

In the 24/7 capitalistic society, there is no Sabbath but the one we keep and practice in our hearts. We may spend our personal Sabbath day mowing the lawn and BBQing steaks, skiing, hiking, surfing, fishing or going to church. Western society places no importance on what day of the week we “rest” or what kind of “rest” we allowed to employ.



FIFTH COMMANDMENT
12 Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.



This commandment may just be the most sinister of them all. It ensures no intellectual growth or change to the status quo. Whatever a father did, dictated the future of the son. Farmers stayed farmers, sheppards stayed sheppards, priests sons were priests.

Although, we sometimes saw the fickle hand of fate intervene in the fate of biblical characters, like Joseph, who was sold into slavery by his brothers, and delivered to Egypt to become an educated and honored man, his fortune could only have been attributed to the laws another culture’s god.

I am happy to see my daughter learn from my mistakes and call me out on my own hypocrisy and misguided preconceptions. We all want a better life for our children, and want them achieve greater heights and explore areas where “angels fear to tread” with success.

This law was designed to squash new methods of thought and any resistance to the established traditions, on penalty of death.

SIXTH COMMANDMENT

13 Thou shalt not kill.

If Cane didn’t know that murder was wrong when he killed his brother, we all were notified when God passed his judgment and punishment on him.



Murder was illegal in Egypt, where the Israelites previously resided. Moses was on the run for having murdered an Egyptian guard, so he knew murder was wrong.

This commandment was not profound nor was it a new concept to the Israelites. It only affirmed the innate morality that all humans know, as a national morality. And we know that the Israelites did murder, in their god’s name, to defend and enhance their national status and as a deterrent to breaking the law.

SEVENTH COMMANDMENT
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

A noble thought, but we need to remember that love and marriage were not an exclusive contract in biblical times. Women were given in marriage as property, and had no say as who they would be forced to spend the rest of their lives serving and pleasuring. Men were allowed as many wives as they could afford, satisfying their roaming eyes.

In western society love comes first, and doesn’t always abide “till death doth part.” We value the individual’s happiness over the contract of a loveless marriage.

In biblical times, large families were necessary for the family’s, as well as the community’s success. Today, in western society, we have children to satisfy our parental urges for love and affection. We don’t rely on our children to support our family units to survive.

These next groupings of commandments were all about desire behavior within a community. But didn’t apply when dealing with their neighbors, who lived outside of their community and it doesn’t apply to enemies of western societies either.

They provide a framework for duality, hypocrisy and justification for the very acts that they prohibit.


Continued.........



edit on 9-12-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-12-2012 by windword because: to add the 7th commandment and commentary




posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:39 PM
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EIGHTH COMMANDMENT

15 Thou shalt not steal.



This commandment suggests, firstly, that there is ownership of earthly things and at the same time denies that those things were stolen and not owned. It is the epitomy of greed, “You will not take what I say is mine!”

It should read something to the effect that we don’t own anything. We don’t own the land we live on, it belongs to the earth and forever will. The clean air that we breathe and the water that we drink is not something we intrinsicly own. We don’t own the lives of the animals we kill for food.

What we have here is a righteous justification to be territorial. But both the ancient Israelites and modern society do steal, and declare ownership of nature.

NINTH COMMANDMENT

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Again, a noble thought. But this commandment doesn’t outlaw lying. It just outlaws lying in order to harm or condemn an innocent person. Today, we call it perjury and prosecute those who file false reports to law enforcement.

TENTH COMMANDMENT

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor’s.



Besides attempting to control an individual’s thoughts, this commandment undermines the fundamental and driving force of capitalism. It’s natural to want to emulate those you respect by wanting the same things, or to best a competitor with a better mousetrap.

Murder is wrong, except when it’s not. Adultery is wrong, except when it’s not, stealing is wrong, except when it’s not.

As long as we value individual freedom and liberty to pursue happiness above the fundamental traditions of unprovoked oppression, the 10 Commandments are unnecessary, irrelevant and even immoral in today’s standards as much as they were when they were written.






Thanks for reading!


edit on 9-12-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Wow. Ignorance +



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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God is real, religion is manmade. Believing is something other than in mankind is good. Religion has been twisted by those who want power, something that Jesus wanted no part of. It doesn't matter how much religion has sidetracked the interpretation of the commandments, if you want to be good you can. I see you have disgust in Religion, that doesn't mean you can't believe that there is something greater than this deceitful world we are living in. Deceit comes at us from many directions. Many of the people that believe in god just want to live their lives, many do not belong to these religions but believe in a life without Chaos structured by their belief. You are right though, what is going on in the USA is not what Jesus taught. Jesus did not even go into a church. S&F for the recognition of this.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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obvious troll is obvious

do you want a cookie ?



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by rickymouse
 


Thanks for the acknowledgment. I do believe in a GOD. But I don't believe that the biblical version of the Old Testament God is HE.

I believe that basic morality is etched on our souls and learned through experience. When I was a toddler, I accidentally kicked my father in his crotch, while he was tickling me. I didn't know that I could cause him such pain, but I knew how bad I felt, and knew that it would be wrong to do something that would hurt another on purpose.

edit on 9-12-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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> The 10 Commandments are Unnecessary, Irrelevant and Immoral,

>Thou Shalt Not Kill

LOLWHUT!

That's all I'm saying.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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Some people are deeper in the karmacoma than others. A guilty conscience is borne by each. It's a battle of the stars while the moons have been relegated to the kitchen ooops i mean....



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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Oh I love this one!




Talk about Orwell, and 1984... "Ignorance is strength! Freedom is slavery! War is peace!"



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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Tm terrified to be around people who NEED the 10 commandments to be sane. I don;t know about you religious(abrahamic) folks but, no one taught me stealing is wrong, i learned it when someone stole something from me.

Its an experience, not a lesson, its in you since birth, you strengthen it thru experience you encounter in life.
edit on 12/9/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
> The 10 Commandments are Unnecessary, Irrelevant and Immoral,

>Thou Shalt Not Kill

LOLWHUT!

That's all I'm saying.
And yet, how many thousands are dying every day at the hands of other people? Many of which claim to follow those commandments or the religions that bear them? Of course you won't be seeing preachers, rabbis, or imams doing the killing; nah, they get us to do it and say it's God's will or whatever -- an excuse used to massacre for how many centuries now? Seems like no one is taking it very seriously, then again, beliefs aren't as rooted as they seem. 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' seems to only apply to the plebs of society, not the authorities, their henchmen, and of course the ones pulling the strings which get away with murder all the time.

I know I shouldn't kill without the Hebrew Bible. I knew it before I even heard of it. My parents never told me "Don't kill people!" either. I guess some are just born with that innate common sense and others need it chiselled into their heads.

When I was a child, maybe 3 or 4, I had some candles in my back pocket which I placed there while we were shopping (I didn't want to hold them, and figured, 'Hey, pockets hold things for me.'). When we reached the check-out, I didn't take them out because I completely forgot they were there. It was only until we were already out of the store that I noticed, and I felt awful about it. I told my mother but she said something like "Don't worry about it." because they were cheap 1 dollar candles and we already reached the car. No one had to tell me stealing was 'bad', yet the guilt was there.

I worry about people that actually need a book or whatever to tell them how to act appropriately... as if they would actually be completely chaotic without it. Maybe in some parts of the world, but in civilized countries or communities, such morals are pretty much common place without the need to stress them. I doubt the natural state of the human without any formal moral guidance would actually spend their entire days raping, killing, stealing, and so on.

But who knows... maybe some of us really are more "spiritually mature" (having keen common sense and naturally compassionate) than others.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by pacifier2012
Ignorance +
Is that the version you use? The Plus one? Regardless, we don't tend to use that kind of software here. Actually, most of us are here to identify and purge that program from our memory.


Originally posted by syrinx high priest
obvious troll is obvious

do you want a cookie ?
> calling OP a troll
> offering a mock-cookie
> mfw

I suspect you need to reevaluate your supposition my good man.



Judging from the above posts and the ones sure to follow suit: OPs that strike nerves remind us all that our beliefs sit upon questionable foundations, but of course, nerve pain is quite striking in and of itself, hence the backlashes of the affected ones.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by AdamsMurmur
 


Excellent diagnosis, Doctor.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 08:17 PM
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I find this information to be an interesting angle to look at the ten commandments.


16.14 Questioner: Can you name the entity that they sent 2600 years ago?

Ra: I am Ra. This entity named by your peoples, Yahweh.

16.15 Questioner: Can you tell me the origin of the Ten Commandments?

Ra: I am Ra. The origin of these commandments follows the law of negative entities impressing information upon positively oriented mind/body/spirit complexes. The information attempted to copy or ape positivity while retaining negative characteristics.

16.16 Questioner: Was this done by the Orion group?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

16.17 Questioner: What was their purpose in doing this?

Ra: I am Ra. The purpose of the Orion group, as mentioned before, is conquest and enslavement. This is done by finding and establishing an elite and causing others to serve the elite through various devices such as the laws you mentioned and others given by this entity.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by windword
 

Dear windword,

A joy to see you again. Anyone in your presence has to do a fair amount of thinking and I'm grateful to you for that. May I start by looking at your introduction? You may be surprised to find that we have some honest agreement there.


In the first place, there really was no need for God to write the Ten Commandments in stone, because, as per the biblical mythology of Adam and Eve, when they ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they were imbued with an innate morality, and knew right from wrong.

All ancient societies held a code of law, of what was the agreed upon morality of their nation.
My only disagreement is a small one. When God told them not to eat from the fruit, they certainly learned that that, at least, was wrong. But basically, I agree. There is an innate sense of right and wrong, some call it Natural Law, or conscience, but it is a universal.

I don't think they had to be written in stone to teach anything, but to remind and reinforce for the Jews what the rules were. They had been going the wrong way (witness the golden calf) and I think the tablets were similar to a parent writing out the "Rules of the House" for the benefit of rebellious teenagers.

The purpose of the Ten Commandments was to establish a national God to a brand new nation, the Israelites. They left Egypt and followed Moses to make a new nation, but wound up wandering the dessert for 40 years and ultimately warring with other established nations to take their land, cities and their resources, including their young women. They were an mixed group of people who agreed, for all intents and purposes, to all worship the same national god. That God was Yahweh, or as some call him, Jehovah.
It was my impression that the Jews (for want of a more accurate name) had always recognized the existence of Yahweh. Some were "better" followers than others, Job is an example. I suppose we can call them a "new nation," depending on what that means, but they were always a people which could tell the difference between themselves and outsiders. Other than that, yes, Yahweh was the God of the Jews, so I suppose you could call Him a national god.

The Ten Commandments are NOT the basis of western morality
Forgive me for questioning you here, but I just don't see it. Are they not basic and fundamental principles which are part of Judaeo-Christian belief? And using your earlier point, that they are irrelevant because everybody is "imbued with an innate morality?" In that case, I would argue that they, as a representation of that innate morality, are the basis of everyone's morality.

Not only that, the commandments work together to form circular logic for the purpose of breaking them.

For example, the commandments “Do not Kill,” “Do not steal,” and “Do not bear false witness” apply, unless we’re talking about our enemies. In that case, we must lie to our armies about how our enemies broke the 1st Commandment, “No other God” in order to kill them and steal from them. All cultures have done this, and still do this, today.
And here, I must disagree, but only because in the small space you have, you might have oversimplified a bit.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


If the 10 commandments are so insignificant why is it so much trouble for you ? If it means nothing to you why is it a topic for you ? If God does not exist why does it torment you so? Is it because you despise the thought that some people live by a higher standard ? Why was this country founded on Christianity and the King James Bible recommended by our founding fathers ? Is there nothing else to debate with more meaning ? If the 10 commandments offend someone let them not read them . Nobody is trying to enforce the Ten Commandments but the Muslims are working to force Islam on everybody . That's the ones you need to worry about .



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 





Why was this country founded on Christianity and the King James Bible recommended by our founding fathers ?


Founded on Christianity.. You are kidding right?


One of the many attacks on our country from the Religious Right is the claim that our country is a Christian Nation...not just that the majority of people are Christians, but that the country itself was founded by Christians, for Christians. However, a little research into American history will show that this statement is a lie. Those people who spread this lie are known as Christian Revisionists. They are attempting to rewrite history, in much the same way as holocaust deniers are. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true. They were Freethinkers who relied on their reason, not their faith.

If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so--but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms.

When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) This provision was radical in its day-- giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. They wanted to ensure that no religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had.





Muslims are working to force Islam on everybody . That's the ones you need to worry about .


Again seriously? I think you are the "ones" we need to worry about.

Do you even bother to research things yourself, or do you just blindly follow dogma with the wool pulled over your eyes?

Did you know "their" religious text or "bible" contains Jesus, Mother Mary, and many of the same stories just like your Kings James version?




Is it because you despise the thought that some people live by a higher standard ?


Higher standard.. again seriously?

A judgmental version of "faith" who gains followers by putting the fear of God into people, is the higher standard?

Reading a book that teaches what kind of people you should hate and cast judgement upon is a higher standard?

If you have eyes to "see" (sound familiar) the Kings James version of the bible and teachings of Jesus can be very enlightening. It seems to me like you are "missing the point" so to speak.

For instance the original meaning of the word "sin" was to "miss the point".

It wasn't until "interpretations" of interpretations, did it ever become to mean "something God punishes people for doing".
edit on 9-12-2012 by SyntheticPerception because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 09:10 PM
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When will you be posting the other threads bashing every other major religion, or is your bigotry limited only to Christians? I eagerly await the Islam is immoral thread next.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by windword
 

Dear windword,

A joy to see you again. Anyone in your presence has to do a fair amount of thinking and I'm grateful to you for that. May I start by looking at your introduction? You may be surprised to find that we have some honest agreement there.


In the first place, there really was no need for God to write the Ten Commandments in stone, because, as per the biblical mythology of Adam and Eve, when they ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they were imbued with an innate morality, and knew right from wrong.

All ancient societies held a code of law, of what was the agreed upon morality of their nation.


My only disagreement is a small one. When God told them not to eat from the fruit, they certainly learned that that, at least, was wrong. But basically, I agree. There is an innate sense of right and wrong, some call it Natural Law, or conscience, but it is a universal.


As always, I welcome your input, Charles.

I'm not so sure that they learned that eating the fruit itself was wrong, but, at least they learned that disobeying God had consequences that weren't very pleasant. Disobeying God, by eating the fruit, was an exercise in "Free Will." This God doesn't seem to have much respect for free will, so I wonder if HE was actually the one who delivered it to humanity.


I don't think they had to be written in stone to teach anything, but to remind and reinforce for the Jews what the rules were. They had been going the wrong way (witness the golden calf) and I think the tablets were similar to a parent writing out the "Rules of the House" for the benefit of rebellious teenagers.

The purpose of the Ten Commandments was to establish a national God to a brand new nation, the Israelites. They left Egypt and followed Moses to make a new nation, but wound up wandering the dessert for 40 years and ultimately warring with other established nations to take their land, cities and their resources, including their young women. They were an mixed group of people who agreed, for all intents and purposes, to all worship the same national god. That God was Yahweh, or as some call him, Jehovah.


It was my impression that the Jews (for want of a more accurate name) had always recognized the existence of Yahweh. Some were "better" followers than others, Job is an example. I suppose we can call them a "new nation," depending on what that means, but they were always a people which could tell the difference between themselves and outsiders. Other than that, yes, Yahweh was the God of the Jews, so I suppose you could call Him a national god.


My point is, the Israelites conquered enemy nations, but married / had children with their enemies' virgins. Perhaps, even some Egyptians were with them, as volunteers or as wives. I suppose this caused some "other gods" and their traditions to mix within their perspective culture. I know that scientist can identify genetic markers in the Hebrew people, but it makes me wonder about the lineage of the children that were born from the "spoils of war," and not "good Jewish girls", who where now a part of the Hebrew tribe.




The Ten Commandments are NOT the basis of western morality


Forgive me for questioning you here, but I just don't see it. Are they not basic and fundamental principles which are part of Judaeo-Christian belief? And using your earlier point, that they are irrelevant because everybody is "imbued with an innate morality?" In that case, I would argue that they, as a representation of that innate morality, are the basis of everyone's morality.


No, what I meant was that the 10 Commandment are "unnecessary" because of everybody in imbues with an innate immorality.

They're irrelevant because, supposedly by the orders of their God, the Hebrews broke those commandments, and used them to justify what was forbidden.

They're irrelevant to us today, because they go against western philosophy of democracy, freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

out of room, continued.........



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by windword
 

Dear windword,

I'm sure you had no idea how I would ramble on when you invited me in, but still the blame isn't all mine. I'd like to consider the First and Second Commandments.


FIRST COMMANDMENT

2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Breaking this commandment was grounds for death among the Israelites and justification to war against their enemies, who honored their assigned “other gods.”
I agree with you. The Jews believed it was against the law and chose which punishment to inflict. The punishment may be harsh by modern standards (they didn't have jails) but some punishment for violation of a law doesn't bother me much.

It is a lie to use this commandment to profess that there is only one god. Moses knew this and his people knew this. Therefore, they could only profess that their god was the greater of the gods.
This may be seen as hair-splitting, but if you see one god as greater than all the other gods then isn't that one the Supreme Being? Worshipping a "minor league" god was what was being prohibited. Baal worship, for example was a no-no.

In the case of the Israelites, the god that they summoned and got was the god of jealousy and wrath.
I lose you here. The Jews were dancing around and worshipping a golden calf when Moses came down with the tablets. He was so angry that he smashed the first set (if I remember correctly). Certainly, under the principle that you get the god you summon, the Jews should have wound up with a golden calf god.

In western society we have freedom of religion and freedom from religion. Although religious zealots would like to claim that we do, we have no national god or gods. People are welcome to believe in the god of their choice or no god(s) at all.

Western society is based on freedom, liberty, democracy and self rule, opportunity and human rights and equality for all.
Perhaps now it is, and I agree that our laws are set up differently from the First Commandment. But remember, those are the laws that we made and don't seem to apply to the world as a whole. Further, this was a commandment given to the Jews, not the people who believed differently. Christians have accepted it (thus, Judaeo-Christian), but I don't see where it is to be applied to others. Could people have used it as an excuse to fight or condemn? Yes, but I don't see anything commanding it.

SECOND COMMANDMENT
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Verse 4 shouldn't be taken by itself. You notice that verse 5 is the command not to worship "graven images" etc. It is recognized (except by Islam, and maybe some others), that these verses should be taken together to mean not to worship something you have made. I accept that interpretation.

I don't quite follow the idea that the commandment was designed to keep people away from science and learning. You seem to agree that many great advances in the sciences were made by Christians, Jews, and even priests. I just don't see evidence for prohibitions on map making, for instance.

Just had a thought. Weren't the Ten Commandments a "graven image" of letters? I'm just not able to agree with you here. If I'm missing something let me know.

I also don't have any trouble with the idea that God will condemn those that hate Him and will be merciful to those that love Him. Seems reasonable to me.

With respect,
Charles1952





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