U.S. Government Selective Service System form came today......

Originally posted by dmsuse
selective service?? I never knew all Americans were automatically enslaved into war by force. It all sounds rather barbaric to me, sexist too. Is there a reason women are exempt?

edit on 5-12-2012 by dmsuse because: (no reason given)

really dude? Don't you know its a womans right to not go to war? They only want to be equal when it doesn't involve anything they don't want to do.

But really, the draft hasn't been used in almost 40 years. Even if it was used, its easy to get out of, if the war is retarded. But if the mainland was being invaded by China, wouldn't it be nice to be able to win?

Originally posted by phroziac
Seriously, OP? You just about got your kid screwed out of all kinds of benefits in life, like the ability to get student aid. That's what happens when you don't register for the selective service. Did you really think school does *EVERYTHING*?

But oh well. We don't know what we don't know. I'm just dumbfounded by "I thought they did that at school". That's all. If its anything like my school, they probably also told him that condoms never work. School is one of the biggest conspiracies there is.

But the form is worthless. When they attempt to draft your son is when he should fight against it, no point in doing anything other than complying now. The benefits lost are too much to deal with and they would find him anyway without the form. Just show up to the draft and act flaming gay, you wont have anything to worry about lol.

"flaming gay". Lol......my son is definately the type that would pull that stunt..lol...and yes, his high school was crappy as they come!

reply to post by j.r.c.b.


LOL. Anyway I don't judge you. Just sayin', ya know. And I see plenty of reasons not to fight for the idiots that run this country....

You guys are a trip

Enjoy the bitchfest.

I'm rarely on this immature site anymore

Conscripting a standing army is unconstitutional! Don't send your kids off to be cannon fodder for banksters, oil, and resources? Ignore it if anyone asks you never got it. its a contract if you sign you are obligated to perform. Then go and start learning your rights under the constitution nowhere is the federal government granted right to conscript soldiers. They can only call on the states to provide state militia.


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reply to post by hawkiye


Yes it is.

Article I Section 8. That whole thing about raising and supporting an army. To raise an army is to build one from the general population. Go back to the monarchy days and kings were known to raise an army, where townsmen would meet at a specific location and join the general military movement.

Originally posted by GreenGlassDoor
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Yes it is.

Article I Section 8. That whole thing about raising and supporting an army. To raise an army is to build one from the general population. Go back to the monarchy days and kings were known to raise an army, where townsmen would meet at a specific location and join the general military movement.

"Where is it written in the Constitution, in what article or section is it contained that you may take children from their parents and compel them to fight the battles of any war in which the folly or the wickedness of the government may engage it?" Daniel Webster

There is no authority granted to the federal government in the constitution to conscript men against their will! To raise an army they can only call on the state militias.

reply to post by hawkiye


Supreme Court addressing every concern you brought up.

Read the case or take a modern military history class.

Any other wrong assertions I can correct you on today?

Originally posted by GreenGlassDoor
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Supreme Court addressing every concern you brought up.

Read the case or take a modern military history class.

Any other wrong assertions I can correct you on today?

You have corrected nothing these cases were argued on the 13 amendment not on constitutional authority for conscription. If you want a history lesson read the federalist papers. The founders were against conscription therefore did not delegate it as an authority in the constitution. I don't give a damn what the supreme court ruled here they clearly violated the constitution because if it is not specifically specified as a delegated authority in the constitution they do not have the authority and it is left up to the states and the people via the 9th and 10th amendments. There is only 17 enumerated powers in the constitution conscription is not one of them.There is no possible way to extrapolate such non-sense out of article 1-section 8 as the founders made their intentions abundantly clear.

"Of all the statist violations of individual rights in a mixed economy, the military draft is the worst. It is an abrogation of rights. It negates man’s fundamental right–the right to life–and establishes the fundamental principle of statism: that a man’s life belongs to the state, and the state may claim it by compelling him to sacrifice it in battle. If the state may force a man to risk death or hideous maiming and crippling, in a war declared at the state’s discretion, for a cause he may neither approve of nor even understand, if his consent is not required to send him into unspeakable martyrdom–then, in principle, all rights are negated in that state, and its government is not man’s protector any longer. What is there left to protect?” Ayn Rand

reply to post by hawkiye


So you didn't read it? The constitutionality was addressed and you keep believing things you made up.

reply to post by hawkiye

The founders did make their intentions clear. They empowered Congress to raise armies, and empowered them to enact laws "necessary and proper" to execute that power. The Supreme Court has decided that conscription laws are a proper means to raising armies (and they usually refer questions of military necessity to the political branches).

The government's official analysis of Article I (pdf, 1.1 MB) touches on some relevant cases and history. I found this interesting:

The constitutions adopted during the Revolutionary War by at least nine of the States sanctioned compulsory military service. Toward the end of the War of 1812, conscription of men for the army was proposed by James Monroe, then Secretary of War, but opposition developed and peace came before the bill could be enacted.

Military conscription was an accepted idea in the Founding Fathers' generation, and the grants of power in the Constitution must be interpreted in that original light.

I too recived a Selective Service form when I was 18. It also came up in my security clearance for the Army. It dont seem right. We think drafts are things of the past. However if this country is mobilize in a large scale conflict, you can bet they will be calling upon there sons and daughters....

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by j.r.c.b.

 

YW.... I've never personally understood the need for the Selective Service system per say because everything from drivers license records to the Social Security indexes already track and know who we are with far greater detail than that little postcard of a thing asks for. It's almost set up just to be a step forcing positive affirmation by the person for something they'll never be given a choice about anyway. ...and as you note, the penalties for those who sincerely and honestly fall through the cracks can be draconian as I'd think of the nature of..'oops...I didn't know"'.

High Schools ought to be outright required to handle this as a routine matter since it is federally mandated by law anyway, right?

It would make sense for high schools to handle it, but that would not be a catch-all. You have kids who are home-schooled, never-schooled, drop out, etc. You also have those who don't turn 18 by the time they graduate.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Conscripting a standing army is unconstitutional! Don't send your kids off to be cannon fodder for banksters, oil, and resources? Ignore it if anyone asks you never got it. its a contract if you sign you are obligated to perform. Then go and start learning your rights under the constitution nowhere is the federal government granted right to conscript soldiers. They can only call on the states to provide state militia.


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edit on 5-12-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

You do understand, Constitutional or not, you would have to end up having the case brought to the supreme court, and then win that case, or all you're doing is turning blue in the face while paying a $25,000 fine, while your son is forcibly sodomized, over and over, and over again, in prison.

I'm not saying it's right, but the Selective Service System IS the law, and can be enforced at gunpoint by the government. Nobody has to fill out the paperwork, but unless you're willing to pay an enormous fine and sit in jail, most people fill it out, knowing they will never be drafted anyhow.

Originally posted by j.r.c.b.
TY Dusty. It says that if he does not register, he will no longer be considered a U.S. Citizen...WTH?? The wording is very strong. How could he suddenly become a non- citizen? The boy was born in the hospital down the street! Our families have been here since the 1800's. I would like to know how someone can suddenly become a non-citizen, when BORN on U.S. soil??

Got to have cannon fodder lined up in the event they can't get enough warm bodies thru their volunteer program. The tragedy is, given the new paradigm in Washington, they might actually try to back up these threats with some new "law".

You might want to investigate living in other countries. Seriously.

Originally posted by j.r.c.b.

Originally posted by Dustytoad
reply to post by j.r.c.b.

 

I got mine when I was 18-19.. Can't remember.. They sent me another thing when I was 21 after leaving the Army.. I ignored that one.. I'm registered, but now I wonder if it really is the law? Too late now. Course I did get medical discharge, so I am probably not eligible for the first couple rounds anyway. Hahaha..

TY Dusty. It says that if he does not register, he will no longer be considered a U.S. Citizen...WTH?? The wording is very strong. How could he suddenly become a non- citizen? The boy was born in the hospital down the street! Our families have been here since the 1800's. I would like to know how someone can suddenly become a non-citizen, when BORN on U.S. soil??

Can you take a picture of the part that says they will not be a US citizen? I was enlisted for six years and still have my selective service letter in the safe at my parents house. I do not recall anything along the lines of not being a US citizen.. It is against Federal law not to register but I call BS on the removal of citizenship. I might be wrong and they changed it but otherwise bleh...

Yep it's standard. I believe right around that time you are graduating high school. And I think it is only for men. I remember when I got mine and was like "OH S---, they're after me!" lol. But nah, they do it...."just in case", and I submitted my form online. Was quick & simple.

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli

The founders did make their intentions clear. They empowered Congress to raise armies, and empowered them to enact laws "necessary and proper" to execute that power. The Supreme Court has decided that conscription laws are a proper means to raising armies (and they usually refer questions of military necessity to the political branches).

They empowered them to raise armies not conscript free men. The armies were raised by calling on the states to militias. No where in the constitution is conscription mentioned therefore such authority is not granted!!! To bad Americans don't know their history. The Supreme court ruled (wrongly IMO) the the 13 amendment was not a defense for conscription but no one has brought the no constitutional authority argument based on the maxim of law that it if it is not in there they can't do it. The federal government acts almost entirely outside of its scope (17 enumerated powers) these days and the SC often rubber stamps this treason. Those cases cited were Vietnam era cases and they refused to hear any cases after... So they are in collusion on subverting the constitution also.

"Our battalions for the continental service were some time ago so far filled as rendered the recommendation of a draught (draft) from the militia hardly requisite, and the more so as in this country it ever was the most unpopular and impracticable thing that could be attempted. Our people, even under the monarchical government, had learnt to consider it as the last of all oppression. Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams Williamsburgh, 16 May, 1777

reply to post by hawkiye


Dude, nobody is buying what you're selling. You're just making things up.

According to established mythology, American citizens were not conscripted until the Civil War. First the Confederacy and then the Union resorted to the draft to fill their depleting armies. Prior to that, this mythology holds, no draft existed in the United States. The U.S. government fought the American Revolution, the War of 1812, and the Mexican War solely with volunteersToward the end of the War of 1812, the Madison administration did call for conscription, but this request failed due to Daniel Webster’s stirring and frequently reprinted denunciation of the draft on the floor of Congress.

Unfortunately, this halcyon portrait is false in nearly every respect. The only U.S. war fought without conscripts before the Civil War was the Mexican War. American governments, state or national, drafted men not only to fight the Revolution and the War of 1812, but also to wage Indian wars and to suppress the Whiskey Rebellion. Because they employed decentralized militia drafts, however, this fact has of­ten escaped notice. Military experts privy to the compulsory nature of the militia and the implications of such arcane phrases as “calling forth the militia” have failed to communicate their knowledge to out­siders. Indeed, the militia’s coercive elements lasted until they were discontinued during the Jacksonian era.

The American Militia and the Origin of Conscription: A Reassessment

Again: "American governments, state or national, drafted men not only to fight the Revolution and the War of 1812, but also to wage Indian wars and to suppress the Whiskey Rebellion."

More over,

The states used these drafts not just to man their own forces but also to fill their quotas for the Continental Army.

Who was the President during the Whiskey Rebellion? Why none other than George Washington! Who was with him? None other than Secretary Alexander Hamilton! Don't forget revolutionary war hero General Henry Lee was there.

So not only is the draft constitutional and old as the US itself, the Founding Fathers practiced it. Would anyone know better than the Founding Fathers themselves concerning what they intended?

The federal force, prior to the Mexican War, was comprised of state components that fell under a Federal cadre. What do we call that? Oh yeah, a national army.

You are wrong. Move on.

reply to post by GreenGlassDoor



So you're saying the Thomas Jefferson quote is made up... Wow... I am not making anything up I am quoting historical figures you are ignorant of history and emotionally ranting to convince yourself you are right when you don't know what you are talking about. You have never read a word of the federalist papers have you... It's ok you are typical of most Americans who have little clue of their history to bad because it is the ignorance of Americans that has led us to the brink of disaster we face right now. Most will not wake up till they are living under a bridge or in a fema camp and many will still not wake up even then. Go drink some tap water and flip on the tube... Move along nothing to see here... Sigh!