Let’s Agree to Put an End to the Petty 9/11 Argument’s

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by LaBTop
Not one serious argument to counter my WTC 7 Cianca photo-anomaly Seismic WTC 7 thesis,

Shown to be garbage here

"Here is some useful information on what you would see in a typical explosion, and also for a controlled demolition.
web.mst.edu...

Now, compare that to the 9/11 Seismic data
www.mgs.md.gov...

Here is a paper by Ryan Mackey about seismic data from 9/11
www.jod911.com...

About page 48 ff.

Gravy's reasearch
sites.google.com...

Pat's (??) site on the Seismic data
www.911myths.com...

NIST's info on the seismic data
wtc.nist.gov..."

and
www.911myths.com...

edit on 25-1-2013 by hellobruce because: (no reason given)

First and second links are dead and/or wrong copied. Lazy posting, not even controlling your own links.

Third link, Ryan Mackey, had some interactions with him here, he never came back, and offered no refute to my seismic evidence, so I really wonder why you include this link to this August 2007 piece.

Well, if we are there anyway, let me point you to a glaring mistake made by NIST and parroted by him, which I already earlier on pointed at :

Much larger floor displacements, predicted by NIST in NCSTAR1-6D Appendix A, are also verified by photographic evidence. NCSTAR1-3C contains numerous photographs
(page 50)
of “hanging objects,” which can only be objects suspended from floors above or the floors themselves, irrefutably demonstrating that the floors sagged significantly – several feet in many cases – as the fires progressed. This is clearly seen in photographs such as Figure 2-41 of NCSTAR1-3C.

If Ryan Mackey would have taken the time to verify that Figure 2-41, and compared it to the floor plans of those floors depicted, he would had noticed, that the floor plates were placed PERPENDICULAR to the facade there. Thus, the small sides of the floor plates were welded on the seats against the Vierendeel facade parts.
Thus, it was IMPOSSIBLE that longitudinal sides of floor plates or their trusses were significantly sagging there.
Those were simply the 60 cm deeper, sagged and lowered ceiling rims that hung in front of those windows, immediately triumphantly declared to be sagged trusses.
That's what I call dishonest and lazy research in articles.

I told you already that the space in between the floor plates and the lowered ceilings would be IDEAL hiding places for Thermobaric bombs.
Totally unobstructed room all over a whole WTC Tower floor, for an expanding TB explosive dust cloud. Air-con pipes inside those spaces would be no real obstruction for such clouds.

Fourth link, Gravy's research, a dead or mistyped or mis-copied link too.

Fifth link, a quite serious and seemingly honest research site, that gives the advice to the reader to make his own mind up. It's however from 2006, and the time stamp issues between radar and seismic UTC stamps has been solved already years ago, both are accurate.

Sixth link, NIST. You seem not to bother to read my links. I have a thread up, titled : "I challenge NIST Answers to FAQ - Supplement (December 14, 2007)" where I refute that whole FAQ NIST page.
And on that page 11 you find the Professor Brown remark about explosives exiting the bedrock far stronger than collapsing buildings.

Seventh link, 911myths.com. Yup, still have to make time free to thoroughly drive that nonsense-site into the ground.
You didn't even check, it's just a double of the fifth link, what a disaster post.

CONCLUSION :
Not ONE iota about MY SEISMIC EVIDENCE in all links of that above example of a drive-by poster that can't come up with any personal refuting, and thus quickly copies some very old links from his or somebody's else Favorites folder.
And such a guy dares to start with this :
"Shown to be garbage here"

I will not react anymore on your posts, it's by far not worth the time and energy.

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by LaBTop

 

You do have an issue with any sorts of explosives in the basement. For starters, the core columns were not severed anywhere in the base of the core. How do I know? You can see the base of the core segments still standing above the piles.Sure they were stubs, but they still remained. Second, people survived in the cores during collapse. If the core columns were severed, then it would not be standing and not have people surviving.

Again, lack of reading comprehension, I told you that later on, witnesses reported explosions at floors above the Messasine areas. In the first mechanical floors, and at the floors a bit higher up. When you listen to all these videos I by now have put up, one thing becomes clear. They boldly exploded rows of explosives to pre-cut columns and beams, to prepare for the final blow. They must have been very sure that they could manage the aftermath of 9/11, stock full of media-aided patriotism. And mystify the memories of so many witnesses, as if their reports were mere fairy tales. They succeeded for a few years, but now the tides are changing like an avalanche.

They were not opting for total removal of all lower columns, they needed crucial core columns to fail, no more. And there is a chance that some charges mis-fired. Those people in that stairwell were extremely lucky that day.
And please show me photo's where I can see all 47 core columns sticking out from the rubble.

A short cross-check to the other thread, very interesting info posted by me there at page 6. READ and VIEW it.

**ATTENTION**

Might I remind members of the following:

Any Terms & Conditions infraction in the 9/11 forum may result in the termination of your account without warning.

This policy is not up for debate, nor will staff be tested on our willingness to enforce it.

Please keep the conversations civil. No personal attacks, or violations of any kind, will be tolerated moving forward.

~Tenth
ATS Mod

reply to post by LaBTop

They succeeded for a few years, but now the tides are changing like an avalanche.

You mean like the avalanche of people admitting to their part in the cover up after 10 years?

Why did the building collapse at the floor(s) of impact? Were they so confident that the unexperienced pilots would hit their assigned floors?

How did the demo experts protect their charges/wires/det cord from the impact damage?


We've been through all of these demo theories many times before. You are the last hold out of the demo theory.
No one else in the real world believes it as evidenced by the lack of "avalanche".
As has been mentioned before . . When I turn my computer off the conspiracy goes with it.

Those are not valid questions at all, especially since you and the few other remnants of believers in the official 9/11 explanation at this board, haven't refuted even one of these simple and clear counter-evidences :

1.014px × 784px :
files.abovetopsecret.com...

640px × 494px :


and this :

LaBTop : Huge evidence post.
ANSWER THIS HUGE POST BEFORE POSTING ANY FURTHER THREAD-DISTURBING UNSUBSTANTIATED POSTS.

Since I have some spare time at hand, I'll refute your post :

SK : You mean like the avalanche of people admitting to their part in the cover up after 10 years?


LT : What about all these 9/11 Commission Report board members, one of them resigned already early on, explaining that by telling us that the government planted a mole between them who dedicated what could be investigated and what not (The by Bush appointed chairman Philip Zelikov, close friend of Cheney and Rice)


SK : Why did the building collapse at the floor(s) of impact? Were they so confident that the unexperienced pilots would hit their assigned floors?


LT : You know the answer, since it's clear that you follow me like a shadow.
Both planes hit exactly at lately reinforced Asian Bank-occupied floors, that each held enormous rows of huge "batteries", explained later as backup energy battery-banks for their server park. It seems when viewing/listening to the below link, that these "batteries" were something totally different :

When looking at visual content of the Trinity Church clip (download link), starting at 2 seconds into the video, the South Tower mechanical floors at levels 75 and 76, where there were no offices, violently explode outwards. This is particularly noticeable on the east face (right) face of the building as the whole line of floors pops out. Material can be seen ejecting from the south and north faces also in this clip. Estimating the distance of the camera to these floors at about 450 meters, we would expect the sound to take about 1.3 seconds to reach the camera, which in fact, it does.

The mechanical floors of the North and South towers (numbered 7-8, 41-42, 75-76, 108-109) had thicker concrete and steel floors and were supported by a much more robust construction than the normal office floors. They can be seen as darker bands on each tower's facade where there were vents rather than windows.

Thick steel I-beams were used instead of the criss-crossing floor trusses used in most of the towers' floors because of the need to house heavy equipment and engineering considerations of over-all building stability. The fact that these floors offered no noticeable resistance to the progressive collapse of the buildings remains unexplained. The evidence of the Trinity Church clip by itself would suggest that at least the 75th and 76th mechanical floors were destroyed by high-explosives. This possibility has been widely discussed in other articles which visually analyze the same explosion as seen from different camera angles. Opponents of the various "demolition theories" contest that the placement of a large number of explosives within the building could never go unnoticed by building tenants, however, since there were no offices or even windows in the mechanical floors, the undetected placement of a large amount of explosives would not present such an extreme logistical problem as is imagined.

SK : How did the demo experts protect their charges/wires/det cord from the impact damage?


LT : That's a simple one. By taking care that those were not placed in the planned impact region. And the few which were perhaps there, were probably placed inside the huge thick box-shaped core columns, that had to be severed too, otherwise we would have seen a 110 floors high, Mikado-ruin comprised of 47 huge core columns still standing, held together at every floor with those huge thick crossbeams.
And TB's are so powerful, they just lift these core columns up a few centimeter from their welded/bolted seats on the lower columns ends. Just as they pump-up those whole floors, thus shearing all beams and trusses from their seats at the outer core columns and on the other end at the Vierendeel facade plates too.



The TB-effect in a WTC floor is non-linear, shock reflection in corners can multiply the peak pressure several times in just a few MILLISECONDS !
Just as we saw happen at both Twin Tower collapses, the corners peeled off and bended outwards as long stretches of corner composites.
They hung 4 per floor, 2 opposite from each other at both open ends of the elevator corridors, thus bouncing their pressure fronts off on each other and multiplying the pressure in that enclosed space, and multiplying the other pressure fronts in the four corners of each floor, and also blowing up both top and bottoms of those floors. The effect thought after was a sudden balloon-blow-up of all floors, for just a few decimeter, enough to break all bolts and welds, and thus giving post-9/11 investigators the impression that all those broken connections were the result of a normal gravitational collapse. And TB's leave no chemical traces, only very tiny ones, of the small HE charges that initiate the TB clouds.

TB's are omni-directional, their sudden enormous pressure wave re-bouncing in microseconds from all 4 floor-corners, blowing-up floors literally, horizontally and vertically. And then that enormous pressure quickly bleeds off through all these small broken glass windows, as seen in that Trinity Church video, listen carefully to those two HUGE explosions in that video, that's when they blew up those double mechanical 75th and 76th floors which were in the way of a fluent "gravitational" effect.

Read this patent : Radio frequency and electrostatic discharge insensitive electro-explosive devices.
United States Patent 6192802 by Baginski, Thomas A. (Auburn, AL) ,
Filing Date: 04/15/1998.
Read however first its long list of US Patent References, then pick one of those possibilities to ignite an explosive charge. And stop acting as if every demolition job is done by laying out kilometers of det cord and electrical wires.
Stop building your whole world view on the Discovery Channel, they are part of the Effort...
Only a company afraid of any tiny chance of misfiring, does that, they have to pay for any resulting damages to periphery buildings.
You don't think these perpetraitors were worried about that prospect, are you?
Do you seriously believe in your own "wires/detcords" words?


SK : We've been through all of these demo theories many times before. You are the last hold out of the demo theory.


LT : On the contrary, you few are the last remnants of a huge psy-ops disinformation campaign. And you probably even didn't realize that you were part of a common effort.
As totally evidenced by the common effort of complete avoidance of my above huge evidence post, and that WTC 7 seismogram made by me, up there.

You all can't refute them, and you all obviously know you do not have any arguments for that task in your drive-by arsenal. They can not be refuted.
Be serious for once, try it, refute all that. I am in waiting mode for that now.

Page Contents.
Page 1.
Page 2.

Trinity Church clip video:
www.mediumrecords.com...

This first video is screen-marked "10:28am" (LT : which should be "9:58am", it's the South Tower collapse.! ) and is a very brief clip of the south tower collapse, recorded close-by from the south east next to Trinity Church. Though less than 5 seconds long, this clip offers fairly high quality audio, the most pronounced sound being that of 2 gigantic explosions. They are unmistakable and sound like 2 violent thunder claps.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

WTC 7 was a proven demolition, the Twin Towers were proven demolitions, all of 9/11/2001 was a false flag operation to lure the western Christian based world into a new Crusade against the eastern Muslim based world.

Which wickedness can only be cooked up in the brains of totally wicked spirits, brainwashed by a once peaceful, but now wicked cult, the Pentecostalism cult.
And who again, were ALL members of that by then, wicked cult? That strange born-again Christian fundamental cult that strifes towards their only and ultimate goal, the fulfilling of that last part of their holy book the bible, Revelations.
Steering with all their might towards their ultimate holy war in their holy land, which is our modern Judea, named for the time being, Israel.

The G.W. Bush Administration was made up of a large number of hardcore born-again Christian Pentecost cult members. With the help of course of a whole bunch of other cult members, Zionists, for who that idiot and murderous plan fitted wondrously well into one of their main objectives, creating a Mid East that's a safe place for Judea and their Jewish people. Of course they went along, no better band wagon then a bunch of totally out of their mind Christian cult fundamentalists in possession of the ultimate global main power.
Check the Pentagon brass faith base at 9/11 time, too.

Those cult members, in the nineteen-nineties already, came up with a fairy tale of Christians against Muslims, in a reasonable peaceful period in time, while those two faiths were slowly and quietly reaching a common ground together, regarding the roots of both their holy books.
That's completely destroyed by now.
By a small flock of born-again Christian fundamentalists, who still influence great parts of the political landscape in the western hemisphere.
Which actions and contra-actions gave birth to lots of Muslim splinter groups with their own wicked interpretation of their holy book, the quran.

The bible and the quran are both books propagating wars and are full of wars, the US and Allies are no different from that.
The Muslims as nations were however already for many, many decades departing from that aggressive path, only some small terrorist groups made up of middle-easterners, a few German westerners and a few strange Japanese were revenging the Palestinian ordeal.

Then suddenly these Christian fundamentalists and Pentecosts made it a full scale war between Christians and Muslims. How wicked. And unfounded.

And this is their reason, explained in this book's summary on line :
PEACE TO WAR

Summary: -snip- But by the end of the twentieth century, the majority of AOG pastors in America believed that Jesus himself would support war and that they should kill for their country if necessary.
--snip--
Comment: "With the Pentecostal movement growing more rapidly than any other branch of Christianity, this book helps us understand how it lost its original deep commitment to the Prince of Peace and to peacemaking. But it also suggests that Pentecostals may yet reclaim this invaluable element of their heritage." —Harvey Cox, Author, Fire From Heaven; Hollis Professor of Divinity, Harvard Divinity School
--snip--
"This is a gripping, powerful, and prophetic book. Alexander documents the transformation—more accurately: devolution—of the American Assemblies Of God over the course of the twentieth century from its roots as an antiwar, pacifistic, and peace-seeking church into a nationalistic, militaristic, and Americanist denomination, even while raising important questions for the Pentecostal witness in the twenty-first century." —Amos Yong, Ph.D., Professor of Theology and Director of PhD Program in Renewal Studies, Regent University School of Divinity
--snip--
Market: Scholars, professors, and graduate students; historians of pacifism and the Assemblies of God; anyone interested in the AOG and how Christian groups move from conscientious objection to support for war-making.
--snip--
The Author: Paul Alexander, Professor of Theology and Ethics at Azusa (CA) Pacific University, is a Pentecostal peacemaker and justice seeker who after cheering the 1991 bombing of Iraq discovered nonviolence in his Assemblies of God heritage. In 2001 Alexander founded Pentecostals and Charismatics for Peace and Justice.

Let us seriously hope that these poor misguided war believers return to their roots as an antiwar, pacifistic, and peace-seeking church, before it's too late.
There are 280 million of them, worldwide....

Damnit, forgot the link to that Thomas A. Baginski patent in my EVIDENCE COLLECTION post :

www.freepatentsonline.com...

reply to post by LaBTop


Did I really forget to mention that those people that survived in that stairwell, were situated NOT in the central 47 core columns area?
All stairwells were situated in the corners of the towers.

One moment.
Found this photo, that notes 2 core columns beside North Tower stairway B :



I am in the process of checking the WTC 1 floor plans. Give me a moment.

Another moment, and I found this, Tower A = North Tower :
www2.ae911truth.org...
Service Level Core Plan :
911research.wtc7.net...
and there I see only one stairwell , and indeed inside the core columns, thus I retract my above statement, that they were only situated in the corners.

I see however, still no wood of 47 core columns sticking out of the rubble pile.
And was there only one stairwell for the whole tower? I remember floor plans with 4 stairwells on all four corners, where are those? And a report, that 17 people managed to escape through one of these, since the other stairwells were blocked by debris. The rest of the people didn't survive, they stayed and waited for help.

Another moment, and I found this :

NIST director explains in 2005 before Congress :

• Approximately 87 percent of the estimated 17,400 occupants of the towers, and 99 percent of those located below the impact floors, evacuated successfully. In WTC 1, where the aircraft destroyed all escape routes, 1,355 people were trapped in the upper floors when the building collapsed. One hundred seven people who were below the impact floors did not survive.
Since the flow of people from the building had slowed considerably 20 minutes before the tower collapsed, the stairwell capacity was adequate to evacuate the occupants on that morning.

• In WTC 2, before the second aircraft strike, about 3,000 people got low enough in the building to escape by a combination of self-evacuation and use of elevators. The aircraft destroyed the operation of the elevators and the use of two of the three stairways. Eighteen people from above the impact zone found a passage through the damaged third stairway (Stairwell A) and escaped. The other 619 people in or above the impact zone perished.
Eleven people who were below the impact floors did not survive. As in WTC 1, shortly before collapse, the flow of people from the building had slowed considerably, indicating that the stairwell capacity was adequate that morning.

So are these blueprints old plans, and did they ad more stairwells later on in the building process, or do I have to check all floor plans untill I find those three stairwells from the above excerpt?
WTC A is WTC 1 is the North Tower,
WTC B is WTC 2 is the South Tower.
There seemed to have been three stairwells in both towers, A,B and C.

So LaBTop, is there a single person in the entire world that buy into your TB nonsense? If so, who? Just wondering.

So -PLB-, is there a single person in the entire world that buy into your OS nonsense? If so, who? Just wondering.

Can you refrain from this kind of drive-by nonsense? And start refuting this :

THIS IS THE 9/11-EVIDENCE COLLECTION POST :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by -PLB-


what is TB?

Originally posted by -PLB-
reply to post by LaBTop

 

So I guess that's a no. You did get quite some stars. Are ya affraid to talk out?

Second try. Can you refrain from this kind of drive-by nonsense? And start refuting this :

THIS IS THE 9/11-EVIDENCE COLLECTION POST :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by -PLB-

So LaBTop, is there a single person in the entire world that buy into your TB nonsense? If so, who? Just wondering.

These enhanced FAE weapons, from their initial development on, named Thermobaric (TB) weapons, expanded their explosive brisance several times by polarizing the molecules in its gas cloud by modification of its electrostatic field, a technology developed after studying Thomas Townsend Brown's research.

A Who's Who listing for some buyers into my nonsense :

The National Security Council (U.S.).
All department heads from Department of Defense scientific facilities.
All senior level national security research and development officials.
General E.C. Meyer (Ret.), former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
The 17th director of the CIA, John Mark Deutch who wrote this :
""Combustion and Flame, 1978, vol 231 pp. 215–221 and 223-229.""
The operators at the Nevada Test Range.
Los Alamos National Laboratory.
The Lawrence Livermore Labs researchers.
Georgetown University's Center for Strategic and International Studies.
The Gallup Ordinance people.
The Scientific Engineering Institute.
Researchers at the Lilac Corporation.
Research and Development at the FMC Corporation, which is the Food Machinery Corporation, they produced f.ex. the Bradley Personnel Carrier.
The Pyrotronics Corporation
Hercules Research
The Wackenhuth Corporation.

Patents :
(1) The application of Perturbation Theory to enhanced energy transfer.
(2) The application of stationary methods with powders and aerosols to enhanced energy transfer.
(3) The application of Perturbation Theory to hydrodynamic flow regimes.

And of course all those Eastern Europe researchers from my REFERENCES post up there.
And the Indian Army researchers from my other link up there.

Who's still buying into your official 9/11 story nonsense?

reply to post by LaBTop

If you really believe that all these organisations believe your nonsense that WTC7 was taken down with TB, then sure, unicons fart rainbows.

Originally posted by LaBTop
Those are not valid questions at all,

So you cannot answer them, as if you did answer them it would totally destroy your silly conspiracy theory, you claim that they are not valid questions....

Originally posted by LaBTop
WTC 7 was a proven demolition, the Twin Towers were proven demolitions, all of 9/11/2001 was a false flag

No, they are all just silly conspiracy theories not based on any fact. The same as the claims mini nuclear weapons were used, or missile firing aircraft were used, or the no planes theory, or explosives were used, or even beam weapons were used.... all with zero evidence to back them up.

reply to post by hellobruce

You broke the peace and quiet.
We went what 4 days with no postings in the 911 section?
The world knows this 911 stuff is bunk.
Even the 2012 section has more believers.

To the three members above me, do you realize how juvenile your posting behavior has become?
You three have managed to fill 19 pages with non-substantial drive-by posts, did not once refute even one piece of the extensive evidence offered in this thread, and clearly have just one goal in life.

The only one with some posting substance was GenRadek.

Third try. Can you all refrain from this kind of drive-by nonsense? And start refuting this :

THIS IS THE 9/11-EVIDENCE COLLECTION POST :
www.abovetopsecret.com...