Almost One Third of America Now Lives in Poverty

Originally posted by NthOther
What exactly is this poverty thing, anyway?

. They all have clothes on their backs, roofs over their heads, cars in the garage, cellphones charging, refrigerators running, and big screen flat-panel televisions tuned in to American Idol or some other stupifying garbage--all considered luxuries in many parts of the world.

So what is it then? I don't see any real material poverty in this country,

reply to post by Indigo5

You are confusing free-market with Plutocrasy

No

free market capitalism is pure darwinism the strong survive the weak perish, and a free market can only exist with the absence of government interventionism.

That is what it is, and not the facsimile of trying to change the environment to suit the "peoples wants".

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Indigo5

 

You are confusing free-market with Plutocrasy

No

free market capitalism is pure darwinism the strong survive the weak perish, and a free market can only exist with the absence of government interventionism.

That is what it is, and not the facsimile of trying to change the environment to suit the "peoples wants".

No...What you are describing is Anacho-capitalism...similair to the old west.

And every free-market in the world does in fact exist with various measures of government intervention.

I've run across an interesting article on this subject. I wish the OP would have put poverty in quotation marks. It seems as though the definition has been changing and will become meaningless, if it hasn't already.
www.nypost.com...

The federal government now considers a family of four in New York City to be poor if its pre-tax income is below $37,900.Even with full medical coverage.

The calculation helps explain why newly revised Census Bureau figures hike the number of poor Americans to 49 million as of last year, further widening an already yawning gap between ordinary perceptions of poverty and how the government sees it.

Only 2 percent of the official poor are homeless. According to the government’s own data, the typical poor family lives in a house or apartment that’s not only in good repair but is larger than the homes of the average non-poor person in England, France or Germany.

The typical “poor” American experiences no material hardships, receives medical care whenever needed, has an ample diet and wasn’t hungry for even a single day the previous year. According to the US Department of Agriculture, the nutritional quality of the diets of poor children is identical to that of upper middle class kids.

Previously, a family of four was considered poor if cash income was less than $22,800. The new definition sharply jerks up this threshold, especially in large cities.

Now, a family of four with full medical insurance, living in Oakland, can be considered “poor” if its yearly pre-tax income is below $42,500. In Washington, DC, the figure is $40,300; in Boston, $39,500; in New York, $37,900.

While the old poverty measure counted absolute purchasing power (how much steak and potatoes you can buy), the new measure counts comparative purchasing power (how much steak and potatoes you can buy relative to other people.)

Look at it this way: If the real income of every single American were to double overnight, the new measure would show no drop in poverty because the poverty-income thresholds also would double. Under this new definition, we can reduce poverty only if the incomes of the “poor” rise much faster than those of everyone else.

The goal of fighting poverty is no longer about meeting physical needs; instead it has been covertly shifted to equalizing incomes, or “spreading the wealth.” (Emphasis added)

reply to post by charles1952


An article by Robert Rector...he has made a life work of trying to eliminate welfare and is the leading "ef the poor" "intellectual" at the Heritage Foundation...

In case you can't tell...I think he is full of crap.

www.heritage.org...

And his views are not new...it's the same tune he has been signing for decades

Rector has written frequently on the subjects of welfare and poverty, including the 1992 The Wall Street Journal article “America's Poverty Myth”, which asserted that the U.S. Census inaccurately measures poverty,[9] and his 1995 book with William Lauber, America's Failed $5.4 Trillion War on Poverty, which criticized welfare laws in the U.S. for allegedly rewarding breakdowns in family values.[10]

In 1995, The Wall Street Journal called Rector the "leading guru" behind the Republicans' position on welfare.[11] In 2006, National Review editor Rich Lowry called Rector "the intellectual godfather" of welfare reform.[12]

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by charles1952
I've run across an interesting article on this subject. I wish the OP would have put poverty in quotation marks. It seems as though the definition has been changing and will become meaningless, if it hasn't already.
www.nypost.com...

The federal government now considers a family of four in New York City to be poor if its pre-tax income is below $37,900.Even with full medical coverage.

The calculation helps explain why newly revised Census Bureau figures hike the number of poor Americans to 49 million as of last year, further widening an already yawning gap between ordinary perceptions of poverty and how the government sees it.

More on your author...

Few Americans outside the Beltway will recognize Rector's name. But it's worth knowing that, for a national campaign spot, Team Romney turned to a man who holds controversial, and in some cases inaccurate, views of poverty and economics. Rector has claimed that poverty doesn't impact children, that you're not really poor if you have air conditioning or a car, and that the very idea of welfare lifting Americans out of poverty is "idiotic."

Rector takes full credit for inspiring Romney's welfare attacks. At a Heritage Foundation blogger briefing, he said that "it was my research that was featured in those ads. It was all over those ads." And Rector has dismissed the fact-checkers' debunking of his claims that Obama gutted welfare reform by giving states more flexibility to fulfill welfare's work

Rector has made controversial and dubious claims on the issues of poverty and economics for decades. In 1995, for instance, he said to a Washington Post reporter: "Is poverty harmful for childhood? I think not."

www.motherjones.com...

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

 

I said I own my own home.. hence no mortgage bills or big monthly payments. I bought it 10 years ago before I left working for someone else all my life. I had money saved and do save every year. The house is a condo and it was cheap 10 years ago about 25.000 dollars.

I buy everything for pennies on the dollar shopping around. I don't use cash a lot - I trade my time and services for goods or services I need. ( I have many skills) I don't use banks, I don't borrow. I buy things slightly used or refurbished if I need a warranty. I can easily work 40 hours a week making between 20 to 30 dollars an hour - I did that for over 20 years ( I'm 44 now) . Then I got smart and learned how to live better without killing myself. Now, I only work when I want to or need to. If you play your cards right, anyone can have everything they want or need with very few. bills.

i'm 24 and i also work when i want to (thanks internet) just needa smarten up with my money no need to explain yourself to the non-believers, they won't believe you even if you show them proof. "nice photoshop" or something.. the country is lazy, noone has work ethic anymore


*inserts photo of homeless person that prefers to be homeless because they like the lifestyle to guilt people into hating rich people*

Here we go again on the topic of poverty.

One side wants to control someone cradle to grave and the other side would just as soon they die so they don't have to see them.

How about....freedom? Do any of you actually remember what that is? How about you drop all the ridiculous rules and regulations and get out of the way. I'll wager that just about everyone could make a dollar....

It's all a scam anyway. The numbers skewed this way or that to lead the sheep along wherever they want you to go. Next month the numbers will change again to show how wonderful the times are becoming.




I don't listen to polls and studies. I have eyes and ears...I can see and I can hear...how the people around me are doing. I go to town, I can see how people are living and what they are buying. I do not need a Big Brother" sponsored study to formulate my opinion.

I just got another contract today. From where I sit, things are looking great...but...go ahead and put your tin foil hats on and sit in fear...more work and money for me that way.

Clearly, average American Family Household has been doing very poorly versus the top elites for the past 44 years, adjusted for inflation.

44 Years Of American Household Income: There's The Top 5%, And Then There's Everyone Else




Clearly the top have been the most to benefit from Cheap Foreign Labor, H1B Visas, Illegal Immigrants etc
The things that matter, such as they cost of living, health, Insurance, College Tuition, Auto etc continue to rise.


So, someone tell me, does having a bunch of cheap junk raise one's quality of life, or having access to good education, food, and health?


reply to post by Indigo5

reply to post by Indigo5

Dear Indigo5,

Thanks for telling me about R. Rector, but seriously, does that have anything to do with the information he presented?

If he's lying, I'd like to know where. If some of the article is true, I'd like to know which parts are. I'm willing to listen to what people have to say, even if they disagree with me. Maybe he's right here?

With respect,
Charles1952

I am very worried. I've already posted about it recently. My family and I are living down to the bare bones, and we have had to sell everything but beds, and our 3 chairs. No cell phones, no nothing but basics. When summer comes, the electricity will go off so we can pay down winter's bill. I look for work every day, and cannot find it. My husband is working full time, then a week ago, they cut him from 40 hours a week to 32 hours. He's out looking on his days off for anything he can do. This is what happens when you get a college education. It's useless.
We are pretty much two paychecks away from being homeless, but in spite of this, I continue to stock food and do what I can. All that is left here is internet, but if that goes off, then I lose ability to communicate with family across country. Our backs are up against the wall.

reply to post by beezzer


Oh, but do not tell the truth about the growing welfare state and the 19% increase alone in the last 4 years, because Obama is the best thing after apple pie.

Originally posted by NthOther
What exactly is this poverty thing, anyway?

. They all have clothes on their backs, roofs over their heads, cars in the garage, cellphones charging, refrigerators running, and big screen flat-panel televisions tuned in to American Idol or some other stupifying garbage--all considered luxuries in many parts of the world.

So what is it then? I don't see any real material poverty in this country,

Just because someone has a flat screen or a cell phone doesn't mean they are not at or below the poverty line. You can get a cheap prepaid cell phone for $10. You can get a flatscreen for $300 or less, depending where you go. Having a flat screen doesn't mean you are rich lol. They do not make regular box tv's anymore. Anyway, I sold my flatscreen and dug my old 1990 tv out of storage to use.

People can watch American Idol if you have an antenna hooked up and pick up free channels. A fridge running? Nearly every apartment has one if you are a renter.

I mean, the basic things you mention you equate with having money.

Here's what I think having money is:

Clothes without holes and rips
Shoes that are not coming apart
Furniture that's newer and not from the 70's and coming apart, you hold the seats together with duct tape
A nice bedroom set, without your mattress having to be on the floor in winter
A nice kitchen table, that's not falling apart, or chairs wobbling and coming apart
Food in the house, food that is healthy and not $1 boxed crap

I mean, that's kind of my situation right now up there. And it's not like I haven't tried to change it. I didn't fail, the system failed me. I've worked hard all my life since I was 13 and old enough to pull my own weight. Just when I think we are getting on top the rug is pulled out under me. I don't own nor have I ever had a house, credit cards, etc. I pay cash on the barrel. I have never lived beyond my means, I went to college and got a degree, so did my husband.

Working hard, going down the straight and narrow, doing what our parents told us to do for a good future, DID NOT WORK. So NOW WHAT?

This shouldn't be surprising. The future of the United States will be akin to Upton Sinclair's Jungle. It is the cyclical nature of globalization that we are dealing with. When there is nowhere left to rape and pillage the only viable option is to end with the country one had first turned their back on. Love of capitalism is as much indoctrinated into the American mindset as it was to hate communism. People love to tout capitalism as if a truly free market would be void of monopolies and a concentration of wealth. I don’t care what economic/social/governmental system one believes to be the best, they are all made from man, reproduced by man, and abused by man. Everything sounds good on paper, but it is the limitations, flaws, and biases in our nature that will continue to shape our future as it has already been shaped by the same shortcomings for thousands of years. Whatever profits anyone on this forum may be losing, please don't deny the importance of social capital and the cultivation of the heart.

Originally posted by Starchildren
I am very worried. I've already posted about it recently. My family and I are living down to the bare bones, and we have had to sell everything but beds, and our 3 chairs. No cell phones, no nothing but basics. When summer comes, the electricity will go off so we can pay down winter's bill. I look for work every day, and cannot find it. My husband is working full time, then a week ago, they cut him from 40 hours a week to 32 hours. He's out looking on his days off for anything he can do. This is what happens when you get a college education. It's useless.
We are pretty much two paychecks away from being homeless, but in spite of this, I continue to stock food and do what I can. All that is left here is internet, but if that goes off, then I lose ability to communicate with family across country. Our backs are up against the wall.

I hate to see anyone in dire straights.

This advice may help you and your hubby out. I posted this in another thread called "Where did all the jobs go" www.abovetopsecret.com... to illustrate that anyone on government assistance can find work and not have to use that assistance. A fellow member asked me to put him to work asap because I said I could show anyone how to do it. Perhaps the two of you could start a small painting business together or some such on the side.

O.k. I see where you came from now answer the questions - What are you willing to do? What are you Not willing to do? Think trades, manual labor to start. Make a list on a sheet of paper with each column divided down the middle. Pick 5 or 10 of the things you are willing to do and then find out the best, fastest, cheapest way to learn them. Willing to take a pay cut as say from iron work to begin with for a few months, you may have to. If Home Depo has the free lessons on the skills you want to learn go and take some classes. You can find lessons on the internet to learn almost anything you can imagine. Practice for a week or two in your own house. Once you believe you can do the job start making calls. Tell them you have just learned a new skill and want experience and are willing to work in a starting position for a fair price. Warm bodies that are not lazy are all most people are looking for. If you choose to do something like small home repairs you can start doing this right away by yourself. Go to friends and neighbors houses, family and see where you can fix things for them and offer your services. Many things like painting are cheap and easy to do, which includes cleaning rust off of things, sanding them down, repainting with rust resistance paint. Fixing holes in walls with sheet rock mud is fast and easy to learn. Of course there is always grass cutting...

Construction for small jobs/repairs is great because it has many skills. You were an iron worker, I bet you could use a brazing torch ( oxygen acetylene or propane) to braze copper and silver solver - plumbing like in installing water heaters or bathroom sink installs where you use plastic fittings bought off the shelf and calking down the sink - even installing the counter top is not that hard to learn.

It's not hard at all to get back to work once you find what you are willing to do. Get 3 or 4 guys who can do the same and start a small company. The work will always be there, I know - because things always need to get done. That's the main thing. People no matter how bad the economy is will always pay someone a fair price to do things because they need stuff cleaned,repaired, repainted etc. If you simply take a look around your world you will see tons of potential jobs you can land.

In this day when people are charging 60 or more an hour for simple jobs people don't want to pay. Offer your services at rock bottom prices. I charge 20 dollars an hour to do things most people charge 60 for and I get plenty of work doing all kinds of things. Elderly and people on a fixed income will love you. It really is that simple IF your willing to work and spend some time learning something.

I don't know how much iron workers make an hour but if your not willing to start small and put 20 an hour in your pocket then that will be your biggest hurdle to get over. You may refuse to do other jobs because you got used to making 60 an hour. I ask the question, whats better.. taking a cut in pay to pay your bills and feed your family or not work at all? Only you can answer that.

These ideas are designed to get you working quickly. It does not cover more advanced things that are surprisingly easy like kitchen cabinet install or laying tile or tiling a counter top. ( which home depo can also teach you) In fact, home depo sells a book that can teach you all these and more - every skill they know. This book covers the a to z on home repair. they have many like this one: www.amazon.com... It's a gold mine.

Starchildren, I ran out of room in that post but I want to tell you, I wish you and your hubby the best of luck, life and happiness. You can do it, trust me. Work is out there - trust me on that too. Sometimes you just have to do something out of the norm to find it.

and lets not forget that when obamacare kicks in that all those poor people will have to buy health insurance or face stiff government fines. Where are all these poor people going to get money to buy health insurance?
1/3 of the population are living below government defined poverty levels, 48% of the population are using government foodstamps, this country is in real trouble.

Originally posted by Tardacus
and lets not forget that when obamacare kicks in that all those poor people will have to buy health insurance or face stiff government fines. Where are all these poor people going to get money to buy health insurance?
1/3 of the population are living below government defined poverty levels, 48% of the population are using government foodstamps, this country is in real trouble.

I don't work for any company that would require this of me. I fail to see how they will enforce this. Are they going to go door to door? Are they going to force me to seek their type of medical attention when it may be against my religion? Mandatory State run insurance is a scam and unconstitutional in my opinion. I don't believe it will ever happen.

I have a question to ask....

Judging by the latest graphs and charts and tables, is it possible to tell when the next crash is going to be?

Everyone keeps on saying a crash is coming... A major crash, a mad max style crash.

But each year comes and goes and things stay exactly the same.

There is really no difference right now, than in 2005.

We are faced with the same problems, and we always say a crash is coming, but it never does.

So whens the bloody thing going to crash, I'm waiting.....

I'm not sure if I should be getting ready for the long haul of a life spent working, or if i should give up the dreams of owning a house and car with a wife and kids and so on....

I'm 28 years old... Should I be contributing to an rrsp for retirement, or is that all pointless? What am I supposed to do?

I don't really want to go on working and pretending that the future is full of roses and candy canes.... So realistically speaking, when is it going to crash, is it going to crash and at all, and what does the world look like in 10, 20, 30 years time?

reply to post by winterkill


Those numbers may be somewhat misleading, but the facts dont lie:

If it weren't for the ease of producing energy and food (due to the created infrastructure and systems)

and

If it weren't for all the cheap high tech gadgetry that so many have...

This WOULD be the great depression, regarding the individual's perceived experience.

Economically speaking, unemployment, debts, lack of motivation and solutions to fixing failing policies and systems, along with highly uncertain futures?

Yes, this is a major crisis and we need to be beefed up with innovation, solutions, all put into action, to meet the looming waves of further crises.

Here's the catch:

We're pretty much the opposite of beefed up for them.

So...