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Outrage after popular students are found murdered in man's basement after 'they robbed his home on

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posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by minniesoda
 


Home invasion is exactly that....Invasion. It is an act of Terrorism / War. We have every right to protect our selves with deadly force against foreign or domestic threats. Funny how it is ok for a highly trained police officers to unload their weapons into their victims,but not ok for a home owner.




posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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very interesting post. personally, i think he did no wrong shooting & killing the teens. i would have probably done the same thing. imagine TWO people breaking in your house in the middle of the night, not knowing whether they are armed or what have you. where he went wrong was stashing the bodies, thats a little iffy. maybe he was in shock after killing two teeneagers, but still, i see no wrong in shooting them, who cares how many times he shot them? he wanted to make sure they were down, i more than likely wouldve done the same.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by Kreyvic
reply to post by minniesoda
 


Home invasion is exactly that....Invasion. It is an act of Terrorism / War.


Oh grow up!


Home invasion is burglary, it's petty theft. It's a pathetic little crime.

You need to learn English and work out what these words mean. I know Bush liked to extend the idea of "terrorism" to anyone who disagreed with him, but come on! This is just so stupid it's verging on the insane!



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by MidnightTide
 


Do not put yourself into a situation where your life is in the hands of a stranger. it is not that hard to stay alive. if you break into someones home you haven no idea how they will react and death is a possible outcome. If you still go ahead and put yourself into that situation well too bad for you if you die.

this has nothing to do with whether or not the man should have killed them or not... it has to do with these young people making a bad judgment call by doing something that made death an option for them.

I really do not blame the man for shooting them dead. I also do not blame his reaction considering that people seem to always sympathize with the one committing the crime and not to mention they were kids. Had he just wounded them he would have lost everything he had to pay up for their medical cost or any other trumped up bs claim they would have made on the old man. The other possibility would have been that the boys would have killed the man.

I feel no sorrow for these boys and hope this man gets a break if his story is true.

Yes and if it was my boys i would be upset at myself for not teaching them better but i really would not blame the man since i would have done the same if i felt my home and family were threatened.
edit on 27-11-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-11-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by luciddream
 


It's more complicated than that. It doesn't turn on and off like a switch. I have had a lot of martial arts training myself, but in real combat situations, I have lost my head and done things I was taught not to do. Like knock a guy down, then mount up and start pounding on their head, having to be pulled off. Adrenaline kicks in, and the reptile brain takes over, if you have training, hopefully it stuck, if you haven't had any, who knows what a person will do. A fight in the ring is easier than a fight in the street, people who are trained are more predictable than someone untrained.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


its very easy to lose the mount position.. just saying.... unless you are picking on couch potatos then shame on you! you should know better.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


Home invasion is theft...... Until it turns to rape and murder. I wouldn't call it terrorism, as it usually is not politically motivated, but if someone breaks into my home, I treat it like a personal act of war. I do not know why they are there, could be way worse than theft.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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If they had not been robbing the guys house they would not have been shot, it is that simple.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by Kreyvic
reply to post by minniesoda
 


Home invasion is exactly that....Invasion. It is an act of Terrorism / War.


Oh grow up!


Home invasion is burglary, it's petty theft. It's a pathetic little crime.

You need to learn English and work out what these words mean. I know Bush liked to extend the idea of "terrorism" to anyone who disagreed with him, but come on! This is just so stupid it's verging on the insane!



Home invasion is the act of illegally entering a private and occupied dwelling with violent intent for the purpose of committing a crime against the occupants such as robbery, assault, rape, murder, or kidnapping. Home invasion is generally an unauthorized and forceful entry into a dwelling.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by votan
 


I am more of a lover than a fighter, but have no problem defending myself against an aggressor. I only started 3 fights in my life, one was a bully, the other two guys threatened one of my little sisters with violence, which most brothers would understand and let slide.


But the real point was even the heavily trained can and will mess up from time to time. Untrained even much more, as they have no idea what to do at all.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by ISeekTruth101


- PLEASE tell me you read the OP word by word? what is your assessment of this PARTICULAR scenario? if it was a different scenario then fine, but we both know a warning shot was needed.



"Warning shots" are never, EVER needed or called for. They are entirely counter-productive, and downright dangerous. If a miscreant can see a gun in your hands, what makes you think a loud, dangerous, damaging noise is further required to let him know you are armed? Furthermore, you have to take the muzzle OFF of the miscreant in question in order to issue a "warning shot". I don't know about you, but if I'M the miscreant in question, and the distances involved are inside a house, those few seconds of "warning shot" are all I'm going to need to eat your breakfast.

"Warning shots" endanger bystanders needlessly. "Warning shots" poke holes in your home that you have to repair. "Warning shots" waste expensive ammo, and "warning shots" endanger YOU, as well as everyone else in your house (i.e. your own family) EXCEPT the guys who broke in - because again the muzzle of the weapon has to be off of them to fire a "warning shot"... it keeps THEM safe while endangering you and yours. Not a fair trade-off, IMO.

Stick with your "warning shots" if you must, but I prefer MY family alive and well, not victims of my ill-conceived "warning shots".



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by ISeekTruth101

Your weird bro?


No, I am not weird at all. I would suggest you go back a few pages and actually take the time to read the post in full.


i dont understand what you're arguing about than? because it sounds like your defending his actions?

It would sound like that to a person who failed to read the post in full. The only argument I have made to YOU is that a warning shot is foolish. That's it. I am not defending this man. I am not defending his actions. I have been very clear in that his actions go beyond self defense and that he actually become the aggressor. The only argument I have made towards you is that firing a warning shot can get a gun owner killed. That's it.


I have already made my opinion very clear on this topic?


Yes you have made your opinion clear and your opinion is completely misguided if you want to insist that people should fire warning shots in a situation where a stranger has entered your home and you as the victim have no information about weather that intruder is armed or what his intentions are.


What is your conclusion? that you think he 'didn't know if the intruders were armed or not?''


My conclusion is posted already. Try actually reading it.

That being said, I highly doubt that he knew if they were armed or not at the moment they entered his home. That is not something anyone can possibly know. However as a citizen you have the right to shoot an intruder who enters your home in the middle of the night. You are not required to ask them if they are armed or not.


Is this the point your arguing for?


I have explained my argument, numerous times now.


Ok well if he had time to get his gun ready, and get past the jamming thing, and watch the girl laugh at him but not know if they were armed or not? what else can i say to you???????????????????


Now here what you are describing is a complete twisting of everything I have stated and you are again displaying your ignorance for all to see. I would again suggest you go back and read my previous post.

For starters, most people do not need to "get the gun ready". For many gun owners, it is a simple issue or removing the firearm from a gun safe or removing a trigger lock. For people like myself who live alone, it is a simple matter of picking up the weapon. I keep my weapon right next to my bed, already loaded. All I have to do is pull the slider and get a round in the chamber.

Secondly, you jump right over to the gun jamming and skip a large part of this story. Did you forget that he shot the first intruder twice? He shot the boy, who then fell down the stairs. He then shot him a second time in the face before (as the shooter claims) dragging the body to the back of the basement. Now if you want to discuss the law.... it was at the moment of the second shot that this man was no longer defending himself, although this is a point that can be argued in court. At this point he also knows if ONE intruder is armed or not. He has no idea if the second intruder is armed.

Next, according to the shooter, he then shots the girl as she enters the basement, causing her to fall down the stairs. It was when he attempted to shot her a second time that the gun jams and she laughs at him. At this point, there is no doubt that this is no longer a case of self defense. She was shot, she is down, at this point he knows if she is armed or not. Yet he attempted to shot her again while she was down. Then the gun jams, she laughs at him, he produces a second weapon and fires multiple rounds into her chest. At this point, there is no self defense. This is murder in the eyes of the law.



Your lacking in common sense and logic? ive presented my logic here.


if you say so. I would suggest that what you are presenting here is a lack of reading comprehension and not logic.

[quoteNow let me know what exactly your conclusion is to this matter? is he right or wrong?

Again- go back and read my initial post in this thread. I explain my position perfectly and I even quoted for you where I said he was wrong in that he crossed the line from self defense to murder.

Self Defense laws in this country are VERY specific in that you can use as much force as necessary to eliminate a threat. Again, I will use you and I as an example.

Let us say you walk up and punch me in the face. I now have a right to defend myself from your attack. So I punch you back and you fall down and hit your head and you are now unconscious. It is in this moment that If I were to attack you further, I am not longer defending myself, I am now the attacker because you are unconscious and no longer a threat to me. Make sense yet?
edit on 27-11-2012 by MrWendal because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-11-2012 by MrWendal because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


I was thinking the exact same thing. Must have been really embarrassing for him to have his house broken into repeatedly, being a security guard and all.

And who's house gets broken into 6 times? Something is not right about that at all.

~OkieDokie



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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Byron David Smith put a handgun under the chin of wounded and gasping 18-year-old Haile Kifer for what he told police was a "good clean finishing shot." "The law doesn't permit you to execute somebody when there's no possible way the crime can continue."



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


I think both trained and untrained can become emotional which may lead to overkill during a fight. Except when you are trained you know exactly what to do to really hurt someone, untrained you are just flailing around



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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I keep thinking to all the news stories of eastern European gangs here in Spain that specialized in home invasion while reading through some responses here. They didn't bring more than a pipe sometimes and just wanted to rob the place clean. If the occupants were there, then oh well,

they were beaten, tortured, raped, and ultimately killed. Entire families. Kids, elderly, the freaking pets. You don't assume the best intentions. You assume the worst. This is human nature people and the real world. Not PC fairy land.

You wouldn't risk your daughters and wives getting raped over your corpse while they beat your mother to death in the next room. This happens. There is no hoax or hype to this threat. Police deal with this sick crap every day all over the world.

If you want money you rob and make sure no one is home. If you don't care, you don't care to leave witnesses. Criminal minds are not like us. There is no way to tell.

I would not Sum up the person. You are in my house. I F-ing kill you. If I go to jail, then that is the price of keeping my family from POSSIBLE horrors and death. Sorry. Next time knock and ASK.

EDIT:
not all life is worth protecting, especially those that don't care to do the same..
edit on 27-11-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by MrWendal
 


When I came home to find someone in my home. I offered to make the man a cup of tea... He had his tea. Had a chat to what he was doing. Apologies and left....


Well I would suggest that what happened to you is an exception to the rule and also very different from what is described in this story.

Allow me to ask you, if you woke up in the middle of the night to find a stranger in your home, would you make him some tea at that point?

I'm sorry but here in the USA, it doesn't happen like that. I can post story after story after story of home invasion where armed people break into your home with force, tie you up, rob you, rape you, then kill you and leave for as little as a TV an XBox and $50.00 in cash.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


What muzzle are you on about? these are civilian homes not call of duty iventory?
Warning shots ruin homes and damage walls? this is where american mentality is flawed


Would rather have a damaged wall or have someone die?

a life is worth more than all the richest commodities.

Life is life.

That is so ignorant to imply that a few home repairs is worth more than human life, warning shot IS NEEDED!!! and it has worked before....i have posted an example



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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I had to leave for a while and do an errand; while I was out I thought about this situation; and I am wondering what I am going to write next... may be the truth.

What if the 64 year old man is a sexual predator; and somehow he talked those 2 teens into his house; took them to the basement; and either did what he wanted to do or attempted to; the teens tried to get away; he shot them dead so they wouldn't tell; then it was found out he did murder them; and he made up the story about them breaking into his house; as a coverup and also so he wouldn't get murder one; and eventually go free.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by MidnightTide
 


It's pretty effin' sad when victims can be charged with anything because they didn't defend themselves exactly the right way in a surprise attack when criminals decide to violate them or their home. The criminals gambled and lost. That's it.
edit on 11/27/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)




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