Outrage after popular students are found murdered in man's basement after 'they robbed his home on

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Oh grow up!

Home invasion is burglary, it's petty theft. It's a pathetic little crime.

You need to learn English and work out what these words mean. I know Bush liked to extend the idea of "terrorism" to anyone who disagreed with him, but come on! This is just so stupid it's verging on the insane!

If home invasion is a petty crime, how do you explain all the cases of home invasions where the people who owned the home came up dead, kidnapped, or raped?

Home invasion is not just burglary it is not just petty theft. Many different things can and DO happen in cases where strangers enter your home without permission and it has been that way for decades. The truth is the term "home invasion" is a relatively new term, but the crime itself is not new. The Manson case was a home invasion, and how many people ended up dead in that "petty theft"?

Originally posted by OkieDokie
And who's house gets broken into 6 times? Something is not right about that at all.

And only one break-in was reported which could mean that he had given up looking to the police for help and maybe decided to take care of it himself.

Just two corrections that are really bugging me for folks discussing here

1) There was one boy and one girl who broke in. Not two guys.

2) This happened during the daytime. Not in the middle of the night.

That is all, Thanks

~OkieDokie

Sorry,but if somebody is breaking and entering your home ,theres no time to make a survey about the backround of the thieves,murders,rapist,serial killers,gang menbers and pranksters,since they all fall in the same category......defend yourself,its your rigth,home invasions always teach a tragic lesson...

Originally posted by OkieDokie
And who's house gets broken into 6 times? Something is not right about that at all.

My uncle who takes narcotic pain medication (for a legitimate broken back injury) has had his house broken into over a dozen times. In a small (about 1500 population) town.

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
reply to post by Golf66

 

''warning shot is a military term describing harmless artillery shot or gunshot intended to call attention and demand some action of compliance''

this is what was needed, police do it, the army do it, swat team do it.

Negative. Police DO NOT issue warning shots. Most departmental SOPs I know of specifically prohibit them, as if the training against them were not enough. Warning shots constitute reckless endangerment. I know of some instances in which military security issued warning shots, but generally the third shot in a series was the "warning shot", after the first shot dropped the intruder, and was only done to cover the guards ass so he could say "but I WARNED them! Everyone heard the warning shot!"

Playing cowboys and indians with live ammo is a deadly serious business.

I think this is one of those rare issues that separates simple rights-advocates from those who are either half-insane, or half-stupid, or otherwise think they have the god-given right to kill anything which they don't like.

Of course this is ATS, so it's hard to tell if some of these people are just being quick to respond with their opinion while being relatively uninformed. Much as I like this site, I think it's policy of only allowing a snippet from the source material encourages this. You can tell in a lot of these threads that people are basing their posts solely on the OP, which usually leaves out critical details per ATS' own policy.

I am typically an advocate for the rights of gun ownership and self defense. Absolutely. However, this case clearly goes beyond a typical self defense. As was pointed out, this guy fired a point-blank skull shot right under the chin when the girl was incapacitated. That is murder, not self-defense. There is no reasonable way to argue otherwise.

Furthermore, I also find the claims that this girl laughed at him to be incredible. It is true that people laugh for reasons other than a reaction to or expression of humor. People do laugh when they're nervous. However, I'm still having a really hard time seeing it.

If this guy had shot these two in the legs and arms, and stood over their incapacitated bodies kicking the wounds until cops and an ambulance showed up I would have even supported his right to do so. Kicking, maybe a bit excessive...but whatever.... that would have been a more appropriate "anger response" than firing a "clean finishing shot" into a defenseless girl's skull.

I don't understand how some people can be so heartless. I see those who advocate and accept this guy's act of murder to be little different than those teenage burglars -- overly-entitled fools with swollen heads and swollen egos, who think that their own emotions take precedence over the life of another. I also think that some are unable to separate their support for certain rights (gun ownership, self defense) from individual cases. Sometimes I think some of you would have cheered for this guy if he had skinned them alive and videotaped it.

If someone is breaking into your house the first thing you do is make sure they know someone is home. Most criminals would get out as fast as they can unless they planned on harming you in the first place. It sounds like the home owner ambushed these kids. It wasn't enough to shoot them he had to execute them. You can't shoot someone for laughing.

I did not see the part where he executed one of them with a bullet under the chin. Yes. That would be murder. However, the teenagers put themselves in the situation. Everyone in this situation is paying for their mistakes.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
"Popular students"? Yeah...who were THIEVES committing a felony. They werent so much as MURDERED...but set themselves up to be "KILLED" in the commision of a FELONY.

Their fault. 100%. They and they alone put themselves in that position.

There has been no evidence presented whatsoever which indicates that these kids broke into this guys house other that an unsubstantiated verbal statement by the same guy caught hiding corpses in his basement.

By extension of that logic, all Jeffrey Dahmer would have had to say to get off the hook as far as your concerned is that all those bodies in his apartment were "intruders".

Originally posted by FaithInSelf
I did not see the part where he executed one of them with a bullet under the chin. Yes. That would be murder. However, the teenagers put themselves in the situation. Everyone in this situation is paying for their mistakes.

There has been no evidence presented whatsoever which indicates that these kids broke into this guys house other that an unsubstantiated verbal statement by the same guy caught hiding corpses in his basement.

By extension of that logic, all Jeffrey Dahmer would have had to say to get off the hook as far as your concerned is that all those bodies in his apartment were "intruders".

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
reply to post by nenothtu

 

What muzzle are you on about? these are civilian homes not call of duty iventory?

Not real knowledgeable about weapons I see. It shows. ANY firearm has a muzzle, not just the ones in your video games. It's the business end, the part that bites instead of the part that wags. it's where the bullet comes out. Without a muzzle, no bullet emerges.

Warning shots ruin homes and damage walls? this is where american mentality is flawed


Would rather have a damaged wall or have someone die?

Depends on whom that "someone" is. Uninvited guests of the criminal variety are infinitely less valuable than my walls. Also, since you are entirely unfamiliar with weapons that make loud noises, I'll clue you in on something else - firing one inside a house will damage YOUR hearing as well. Unacceptable just to let little Jimmy know you are armed since he was too stupid to figure out what that thing in your hand was which had a muzzle on it.

a life is worth more than all the richest commodities.

Life is life.

Mine, yes. My wife's, yes. My kids, yes. Intruders, not so much. Their lives are bought and paid for the instant they break in. It was THEIR decision to endanger themselves, not mine, so I'm just assisting them in living out their fantasy to the end.

That is so ignorant to imply that a few home repairs is worth more than human life, warning shot IS NEEDED!!! and it has worked before....i have posted an example

Ignorant, perhaps, but I'm alive to exercise my ignorance. As I said before, they are bought and paid for the instant they break in - repairs to my house come out of MY pocket, and I see no reason to put myself to needless expense and trouble over someone who didn't care enough about their own life to stay the hell out.

Oops. Double post. Stupid keyboard!

Watched this on the news earlier today, and all I can say is damn.

On the one hand they broke in to his house, the guy had been robbed numerous times before.

Shooting the BF of the girl I can see but that many times?

Over kill.

Guess I am sexist cause I would not have shot the girl, and the kill shot under the chin.

The guy needs to go down for this excessive force is excessive force.

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Theres a huge amount of ignorance here!

Why are you saying a warning shot is silly?

they were UNARMED.

i posted a video where a warning shot actually diffused a robbery situation?

i posted a video where a SWAT entered a building full of armed gunmen and an innocent unarmed family and actually persuaded the gunmen to drop their weapons first? not shoot to kill......and SWAT Are are highly trained men!!!

Thats whats lacking in america....training

There are a few VERY important differences in your SWAT team scenario and the average home break in. First. in a SWAT invasion, SWAT ARE the invaders, not the defenders. They are trained to go in hard and fast, guns drawn and at the ready, and neutralize threats in seconds. If a defender drops his weapon when commanded to, it's all good. If not, he gets perforated and medics are called in. SWAT members are uniformed - most criminals are not. It's usually not all that difficult to tell the difference.

Are you suggesting that everyone in America be trained to the level of a SWAT team member? I can tell you that will be pretty involved, and cut down quite a lot on work productivity with the time away from their regular jobs and all. One does not acquire that level of training on weekends and evenings.

Why would he slash the bodies? The crime scene investigators on this case, particularly the coroner, have their work cut out for them. On the face of it, it looks to me like the homeowner wasn't exactly sure what story he was going to go with before finally calling the police. Are we sure they didn't die of stab wounds before being shot?

This is a very weird story.

This sequence of events is, frankly, not believable.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

In a criminal complaint, Smith said he was in the basement of his home when he heard a window breaking and footsteps. Fearful of other recent break-ins, he shot Schaeffel when he came into view.

When the teenager tumbled down the stars, Smith shot him in the face as he lay on the floor, looking up.

'I want him dead,' the complaint quoted Smith as telling an investigator.

He dragged the body into his workshop and then sat in the chair, the complaint said. When Kifer began walking down the stairs, he shot her and she fell down the stairs.

He tried to shoot her again with his rifle, but the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him, the complaint noted.

I believe it was "stash" as in hide the bodies....not slash

aweeeee... so they were college students. I guess college students have the right to break into homes? Good im glad they're dead.

reply to post by minniesoda

Yes, you're right. I misread it. But still the sequence of events is hard to believe. He shoots the boy and then the girl starts to come down the stairs after shots were fired? Not in a million years. She hightails it, in my opinion, in the real world. I think the guy probably got the drop on them and then marched them downstairs and executed them.