Where did all the jobs go?

This is something I show in my sociology class when the issue of employment trends comes up. Notice how you are learning this (with a click), and compare to how you would have learned it 40 years ago, if at all:

1971


2009

reply to post by alumnathe


Exactly right. Automation and computers have contributed far more than most want to talk about to the loss of jobs.
The only solution I see is to lower the hours in a full time work week.

automation is one aspect clearly
another is countries with lowest wages to include work camp based prison system
countries with unethical human rights allowing slavery at any age
they are narrowing down their freedom to be allowed to do this worldwide
even here in the us
the prison industrial complex grows
lady liberty cries in defeat

I agree that if you look at a certain sector you will see job loss. But someone designed those robots and had to manufacture them. Eventually they had to be installed by humans.
Computers.. Internet... I think if someone pulls the numbers the information age easily outpaces the car manufacturing industry. Intel with it's 80k workforce outnumbers ford at 20k employees.... Not to mention Nvidia, Google and even the biggest player Microsoft.



Off topic. The pic you produce is Ford making Rolls Royce engines in Britain.

reply to post by randomtangentsrme


That's a band-aid. It's going to take a change of perspective on what "convenience" means. Is it "convenient" to be able to pay Walmart prices if the trade-off is lack of American jobs? What happens to "quality" in the current arrangement? If you really fear socialism, then stop supporting those who hire to diminish quality in favor of quantity. If you are buying for quantity instead of quality, then you are perpetuating socialism. It's that simple.

Originally posted by alumnathe
reply to post by randomtangentsrme

 

That's a band-aid. It's going to take a change of perspective on what "convenience" means. Is it "convenient" to be able to pay Walmart prices if the trade-off is lack of American jobs? What happens to "quality" in the current arrangement? If you really fear socialism, then stop supporting those who hire to diminish quality in favor of quantity. If you are buying for quantity instead of quality, then you are perpetuating socialism. It's that simple.

You have wrongly extrapolated quite a bit from my simple post.
I don't shop at wal-mart
What I do not or cannot build myself, I buy for quality.
I do not fear socialism. Why fear an idea and failed experiments of said idea?
Nowhere in my post do I bring up convenience.

How is lowering the full time work week a band-aid?
Right now we have corporations giving salaried employes 60 hour work weeks, because they can. We have corporations only hiring part time employees to avoid paying benefits.
If you have the answers, I'm all ears.

Very true. The impact of technology on the availability of jobs is a cause for concern, because it will only get worse. Look around, Redbox took out blockbuster, automated checkouts are replacing cashiers, EZ pass is replacing toll booth attendants... Etc. Soon google will be making cars that drive themselves. Better have a backup plan truck drivers!

Yeah but you're not taking into account all the jobs that were replaced by all the computer jobs and people needed to build and maintain the robots and automation machines etc. It would be interesting to see some hard numbers on this for comparison.

The real problem IMO is debasement of the the currency, high theftation, government intervention into the markets to protect the too big to fails and cronies, and over regulation that have driven jobs over seas.

reply to post by hawkiye


You sound reasonable about this and so I encourage you to go find the stats on how automation rates compare to number of jobs that have (not) been created to maintain the automation. The glorious scary thing about getting machines to do the work is that they don't need health insurance, family days off, or competitive wages. Eventually it becomes clear that teaching the machines to maintain other machines is a lot more "cost effective" than hiring and maintaining human labor. This is not something that happened during one or two presidencies. It has been evolving for a century.

reply to post by alumnathe

hey, thanks for the reminder ... i saw 1971 and thought about this building's completion, the boom the steel biz was and how quickly it dissolved and went overseas ... heck, a majority of ATS posters weren't even born yet

it really doesn't surprise me that they do not understand as they should.
they cannot understand that which they do not know. (and aren't taught)

reply to post by alumnathe


I have no doubt automation is a factor but we don't manufacture much here anymore and I am sure what is manufactured is more automated then in the 70s. But the fact remains most manufacturing has gone over seas and we even complain about workers over there getting slave wages. And most of those jobs are manual so how would it be if we brought them all back home? I don't think that is taken into account and it's hard to make a comparison now days with the manufacturing base gone from the US. To say production is better today then in the 70's with less workers is apples and oranges since the manufacturing base is gone unlike in the 70s when it was at its peak. That just does not tell the whole story when you look at it logically.

I did a little research and can find articles pro and con but neither take into consideration these differences. if you can find something that does I am always open.

reply to post by alumnathe


China, and other low-cost labor nations... sure, automation has played a role, yet outsourcing abroad would be a larger contributor.

You also forgot the aspect of employees who get more tasks to do then they originally started with. A lot of companies let their employees work twice or thrice as hard as in earlier days without the financial reward.

Pre 2000 lots of jobs went from Europe, to America, it was just cheaper to build parts of the Mercs, BMWs, Audis and whatnot in America and ship them to Germany for assembly, because no evil unions, Americans willing to work 12 hours with fewer vacations and if they got a dental plan, they though it was christmas easter and their birthday all rolled in one and did I mention no communists whom wanted more money (how does that even make sense?) and of course Americans thinking that oligarchs are the chiz.

Now after Americans are done undercutting Europeans corporations found ppl willing to work for even less in China and India.

HOW DOES IT TASTE ?

Originally posted by Perhaps
reply to post by alumnathe

 

China, and other low-cost labor nations... sure, automation has played a role, yet outsourcing abroad would be a larger contributor.

Bingo! Years ago, I noted that you could land a pair of Nikes in Vancouver for $9...and they'd retail for over a hundred. Don't know what the current figures are but the argument remains the same...where does the difference go? Why, Bay Street/Wall Street - you get the picture. How about real taxation on the movement of money?

Technology is the culprit, and it is not just in automated systems or computers. The single most driving factor behind all technology is its ability to reduce the work load of those who use it. Technology is the single most damaging force behind unemployment in the world today. Cars, computers, electricity, sewing machines, plumbing, all these things are responsible for job loss.

It is shameful that our leaders will not adress this issue when talking about job creation. They do not talk about it because they know that there is no balance in it if they want to exploit all of technologies advantages. The companies that use these technologies provide their paychecks.

The U.S. is the most efficient country in the world. Our farms and industry are the best hands down. We produce more with less manpower by far than any other country. We are close to twice as efficient as China and they are our closest rivals. This issue is not going to go away any time soon. That is unless we experience some kind of catastrophic loss in our ability to exploit our tech.

Peak oil comes to mind here... Maybe after we accept that reality and start trying to adapt, then our jobs may come back to some extent.

Wow I call BS on this thread.

All the jobs have not gone. Especially not to automation. The Ops pictures above are Silly. They show a handful of auto workers on the factory floor then show robots doing those jobs claiming that robots stole the jobs. Silly people. It took many more people to make those robots - thus many more jobs. Hardware, software, technicians/troubleshooters etc.

The false perception is that jobs are scarce due to the amount of people applying for unemployment. This is not true indicator of how many jobs are out there. There are TONS of Jobs in America !!!!

Most of those saps on unemployment can go out Today and get a job. ( and today is Sunday) The problem is no one wants to WORK. They all want specialist jobs they had been trained for but those jobs change with the technological climate and are never guaranteed to be there forever. People should know this when getting into certain fields.

I know construction, plumbing, air conditioning, heating - and heck lawn cutting, landscaping, digging ditches and a ton more skills (many of which are easily learned for little money ) and I can fall back on them anytime of year to make ends meet. Anyone else can too. here's a Tip. Home Depo teaches you skills for FREE.

Hey America, Get off your fat lazy butts and go out and get to work!

Who do I blame the high rate of unemployment on? I blame the stupid people who are using up the resources in the system by applying for unemployment. Silly people. the People, not the Jobs are the problem.

Unemployment is only supposed to be used by those with extreme circumstances where they cannot possible get work at all. This would be a very small percent of people on unemployment now. If everyone would stop using up the government resources and get off their butts and work our economy would be way better off, but no.. people don't want to learn multiple skills or do any real work for a living. People want to be college trained flunkies who stick with a certain job the rest of their life with promises of 401 K's and a fat retirement plan. If they cant get that or get fired from that they cry to the government and say, You have to help us because we cant work in our chosen job anymore. Boo hoo cry me a river. No wonder the economy is in the trash, the American people don't want to work.

I haven't worked for anyone in over ten years and yet I still go out and work to pay my bills. Would I collect unemployment? ( I could be approved) Nope, no sponging off the government for me when I an able bodied and can do for myself.

You give me ANY able bodied person and I can get them work and a skill ASAP. Any takers?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Your jump at the chance to call people on unemployment saps discredits everything that you say. Try adding something with substance next time if you are going to participate.

It is lucky for you that you have gained all of these skills. There is something to be said for those who take the time to learn how to work in multiple fields instead of specializing, especially in these times. There is still something more to be said for those who learn to be self sufficient. But your lack of empathy for those who have not had the luxury of having been raised by these standards shows your lack of skill in yet other equally important aspects of life and community. You may yet have to depend on these folks one day to survive and blasting them down now does nothing to further your own further success.

reply to post by randomtangentsrme

I believe Obama has, from a 40hr wk to a 30hr wk being considered full time. What is needed is for the pay to reflect a 40hr wk when you are working 30. Or you can have my job and work almost continually. They have few people capable of the job and most that can handle it burn out from the OT like me. They will not LET you work a 40hr wk. anymore.

reply to post by alumnathe

Actually these days they do not really "repair" so much as replace. Black box operation. No need for knowledge so why pay for it?