Syria - Update and Information thread

reply to post by DarknStormy


Well, I think a lot of people did want change, but in the form of reforms, which was happening, but had to be put off until the fighting stops.

I forgot to highlight this part of the Opposition statement:

"Among the criteria decided on in the Cairo meeting is that the ministers would be above 35 years old, revolutionaries, technocrats and from outside the coalition.

This means that, again, no other parties but the 'revolutionaries' are to be represented. There were many legitimate govt parties/people that wanted change and reform, and were working on it and succeeding at it, and now they are not to be a part of the 'new' Opposition.

More propaganda...Again, this sounds reasonable to the people who believe that 'Assad is massacring his own people!™" If he's all ready doing that, then of course he would have no hesitation to use chemical weapons on them as well...

"Report: New signs of activity at Syria's chemical weapons sites -
U.S. intelligence official tells the New York Times that Assad forces are 'doing some things that suggest they intend to use the weapons.' " Haaretz Dec.02, 2012

www.haaretz.com...

The officials said they were not sure whether the forces of Syrian President Bashar Assad were preparing to employ the chemical weapons, or rather use them to deter the West from aiding the rebels.

“It’s in some ways similar to what they’ve done before,” a senior U.S. intelligence official told the New York Times. “But they’re doing some things that suggest they intend to use the weapons. It’s not just moving stuff around. These are different kind[s] of activities.”

U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said in September that Syrians have moved some of their chemical weapons capability to better secure it, but the country's main chemical weapons sites remain intact and secure under government control.

Panetta said U.S. intelligence showed the major Syrian sites were secure in government hands, but some chemicals had been moved.

Sounds like preparation for the narrative that "The rebels can't have got to them! It has to be Assad using them!"
Scary...But hey, they've all ready helped/engineered the death of anywhere from 20,000-40,000 Syrians to forward their cause, I don't put anything past them now...

reply to post by curiouscanadian777


I hear ya,but to date there is no solid evidence of who's right or wrong in Syria
Though i'm not flip-flopping,as i believe the coalition overthrowing the Syrian govt is and will be much worse,as is the case in Libya and Afghanistan,at least Assad was elected by his own people..
It's really a shame whats going on here all around

reply to post by curiouscanadian777


Curious, do you have the full link connected to the quote you used in this post? I'd like to read the full content. Thanks.

From what I'm reading, the Syrian Opposition Coalition is providing more power to the Muslim Brotherhood in the region and I don't think that's good thing.

reply to post by Deetermined


It's this article here:

"Syrian opposition says they have agreed upon the parameters a transitional government" December 2, 2012

blogs.aljazeera.com...

Now, just to show you how propagandized, and even absurd, is Al Jazeera's reporting on Syria:

When I tried to get that link for you, it wouldn't take me there, so I had to look for it. In doing so, I came across this page:

blogs.aljazeera.com...[0]=field_ns_topic%3A153, which shows the 'Syrian Live Blog', constantly updating Syrian stories.

Ok, well I notice this picture, which stood out to me b/c I had recently read stories directly contradicting this. The picture and Al Jazeera's description above, and caption below it:



AJ Description: Photo: Syrian-Kurdish women and members of an armed opposition group fighting against the Syrian government.
AJ Caption: Members of the Popular Protection Units (YPG) stand guard during the funeral of a comrade in the northern Syrian border village of al-Qamishli [AFP]

It is disingenuous b/c , as AJ must well know, the Kurds are not actually fighting with the Syrian govt; they wouldn't mind to see Assad fall, b/c what they're after is a Kurdish state for themselves, which will only come with Assad's fall (but they know will not happen under Islamist rule either). However, thus far, their skirmishes (as far as I'm aware) have been only with the FSA, who tries to move in on their territory.

Now here are some recent articles relating to the YPG :

"Kurds and FSA Fight as Clinton’s Efforts to Build New Government Stir Hornet’s Nest"
Saturday, November 3rd, 2012
www.joshualandis.com...

The murder of Nujeen Dirik, the 42 year old Kurdish female militia leader from Aleppo, by the FSA is likely to spark revenge killings. The FSA in Aleppo lured Dirik into a trap by making a deal to exchange bodies of the dead and kidnapped supporters. When Dirik led a group of Kurdish fighters to the anti-regime insurgents to make the hand-off, she was snatched. A week later she was killed by the FSA rather than traded.

Dirik headed a militia unit charged with protecting the Ashrafiyeh and Sheikh Maqsud districts of Aleppo. This was a clear show of force by the FSA meant to demonstrate to the Kurds not to try to intimidate FSA insurgents. The Kurds may suck up this defeat and choose not to launch a war of vengeance, but it is unlikely that they will not make a move to reassurt their control over the Ashrafiyeh neighborhood that was penetrated by FSA troops last week.

"Turkey, Syria and the Kurds - A third party joins the fray" Nov 23rd 2012
www.economist.com...

Turkey remains hostile to both Kurdish parties, which say that it helped plan the Syrian rebels’ attack on the PYD in Ras al-Ayn. Barzan Iso, an independent Kurdish Syrian journalist, says the Syrian rebels used Turkey as a base from which to bash the PYD on November 8th. “The operation wasn’t about kicking out Assad’s forces,” he says. “It was to dislodge the PYD.” A Turkish foreign ministry spokesman disagreed: “There is now a pattern of Free Syrian Army forces liberating towns [in Syria], doing the job, and the Kurds then trying to move in and take over.”

"MEET THE YPG, THE KURDISH MILITIA THAT DOESN'T WANT HELP FROM ANYONE"
www.vice.com...

Initial reports based on FSA claims and somebody’s friend who spoke to someone in Aleppo on the phone had the rebels taking 90 percent of the city and cooperating with Kurdish militias, but less than a day later these claims were revealed to be false. It seems the Popular Protection Unit (YPG), a Kurdish militia set up to protect the Kurdish areas from opposing forces, repelled the FSA.

...The following day, the FSA once again tried to enter the Kurdish neighborhood known as Ashrafiya. This video purports to show them firing at a civilian demonstration protesting the FSA and regime coming into the neighborhood, a Kurdish stronghold.

"Syrian rebels clash with Kurds as President Assad's grip on power loosens in region bordering Turkey" Nov 19
- Fleeing residents said fighting was between Free Syrian Army and Kurds
- Kurds in the region are suspicious of the rebels and what they would do in a post-Assad regime
www.dailymail.co.uk...

As a matter of fact, this article refers to Turkey accusing Assad of arming the Kurds, the opposite of the narrative of Kurds fighting against the Syrian Army.

Fighting surged over the summer, and Ankara has accused its former ally and now adversary Assad of arming the militants.

Anyway, that picture and it's captions caught my eye and pissed me off, lol.

And here is Al Jazeera's newest entry:



And their description of it:

"Syria 43 minutes ago: Just hours after the explosion that rocked the centre of Homs city, residents took to the streets, chanting anti-Assad slogans at the location of the blasts."

How does that make sense?! As far as I know, I will look into it - It was a car bomb, presumably by the FSA, not the military, that did this. If anything, they'd be chanting anti-FSA slogans, no? Or are we to believe that the people who live there, whose homes/businesses are being destroyed, the people out in the streets yelling, think that it's still Assad's fault, b/c if not for him, the FSA wouldn't be doing what they're doing?!

Man, I wish I knew Arabic...

ETA: Yup, it was a car bomb, report and video here:

www.euronews.com...

A powerful car-bomb has exploded in Homs in central Syria, killing at least 15 civilians and wounding dozens more.

A video uploaded to the internet purports to show the aftermath of the explosion in the city’s Hamra district. Many residential buildings were caught in the blast.

One witness warned that the number of dead is likely to rise because many of the injuries sustained by the survivors were very serious.

Are we really to believe the people in the streets are shouting anti-Assad slogans in response to this? Even the ones who originally supported the FSA must be asking themselves how exactly this is 'liberating' them?

Now, see this makes more sense; in regard to a double car bombing on Nov 28:
(Again, we have to take the translator's word for what they are saying)



Just after the 2 minute mark:

"The first car bomb exploded. Then, after they let the people gather, the second bomb went off over here. There were tens of victims who died."

"We want to protect each other. We love each other. Isn't this a crime? At 6 am. There are kids and women...THIS is their 'freedom'! "

"There are people going to work or school. Is this the 'freedom' that they want? May God prevent them from succeeding! We want to tell them 'May God never forgive them, in this world or the next!' "

"Islam doesn't permit this. What's the fault of the kids who died this morning? What's the fault of the women or young men? They are doing this to weaken us. Syria's people will never be weakened!"

"This is Haram (unlawful and disgraceful). I cannot say more than this. We let god handle them! "

At the hospital where those injured by the bombs were taken:

"What is this little girl guilty of? What will they gain from this? But there is a God. Is it acceptable for her to get harmed like this? We thank God that she only suffered minor injuries. Her mother had her foot cut off."

Two men injured in the bombing:

"May God have mercy on those who got martyred today. They were moving cars that got damaged by the first bombing. I looked at them (after the 2nd bombing). I found half of them turned into little pieces (body parts). I crawled this morning on body parts. This is the freedom."

"I swear by God, I want to tell them: 'Fear God, fear god, fear God!' "

Now, I ask you - Does this sound like people who would be supporting Assad if he was killing his own people?!?

Just came across this in my twitter feed; I googled it and a lot of sites are talking about it in the last few days; not sure why it's going around now, it was passed in May...

"The NDAA Legalizes The Use Of Propaganda On The US Public" May 21, 2012
www.businessinsider.com...

The newest version of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) includes an amendment that would legalize the use of propaganda on the American public, reports Michael Hastings of BuzzFeed.

The amendment — proposed by Mac Thornberry (R-Texas) and Adam Smith (D-Wash.) and passed in the House last Friday afternoon — would effectively nullify the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which explicitly forbids information and psychological operations aimed at influencing U.S. public opinion.

...If the NDAA goes into effect in its current form, the State Department and Pentagon can bypass manipulating mainstream media outlets and directly disseminate campaigns of misinformation to the U.S. public.

Well...that explains a lot...

Not sure what to make of this...I thought Lebanon was working with the FSA?!

"Lebanese army clashes with Syrian opposition fighters" 03 December 2012
english.alarabiya.net...

Lebanese troops fought with Syrian rebels on the border between the two countries on Sunday, in what a security source said was the first such clash between Lebanon’s army and the rebels.

The clash occurred when a Lebanese border patrol spotted the rebel fighters along the border and the rebels opened fire to prevent the patrol from approaching, a Lebanese military source said. He said there were no casualties.

And, Al Jazeera's version:

"Syria gunmen fire on Lebanese position: army" December 3, 2012
blogs.aljazeera.com...

Unidentified Syrian gunmen opened fire across the border on a Lebanese army post in the Bekaa Valley on Sunday, an army statement said, adding that troops shot back.

"At 6:30 pm (1630 GMT), gunmen opened fire from across the border in Syria at a Lebanese army post in the Masharia al-Qaa area" of the Bekaa, the statement said. "Troops in the post responded by shooting back," it said, adding that no casualties were registered.

Syrian Arab Air flight 441 departed Damascus, bypassing Turkish airspace, and headed to Moscow today. It's the first flight to depart Damascus in 48 hours. Rumors on Twitter are that someone important was on the flight.

An article about the Al Qaida ties to the FSA:

""Al Qaida-linked group Syria rebels once denied now key to anti-Assad victories" Dec 2, 2012

www.kansascity.com...

When the group Jabhat al Nusra first claimed responsibility for car and suicide bombings in Damascus that killed dozens last January, many of Syria’s revolutionaries claimed that the organization was a creation of the Syrian government, designed to discredit those who opposed the regime of President Bashar Assad and to hide the regime’s own brutal tactics.

Nearly a year later, however, Jabhat al Nusra, which U.S. officials believe has links to al Qaida, has become essential to the frontline operations of the rebels fighting to topple Assad.

Mahmoud said he saw no reason to hold elections if Assad falls.

“Eighty percent of Syrians want Islamic law,” he said.

Many fighters said they were aware of the accusations about Nusra’s links to al Qaida. But they generally discount the importance of those ties when speaking with journalists.

“In Europe, they consider all Muslims terrorists, not only Jabhat al Nusra,” Mahmoud said.

Still, there are moments when Nusra’s ideology shines through.

“When we finish with Assad, we will fight the U.S.!” one Nusra fighter shouted in the northeastern Syrian city of Ras al Ayn when he was told an American journalist present. He laughed as he said it and then got into a van and drove off, leaving the journalist unable to ask whether it had been a joke.

I just want to say THANK YOU for bringing the news to us throughout these events. I don't watch television- I've been following all the news right here. I've been following this thread, as well as the Israel-Palestine and Egypt threads, and I am (thanks to you guys)- far better informed than most anyone else I know.

I hope the FSA doesn't get away with this. I'm assuming the flight to Moscow was Assad himself or his family? Well, I'll stay tuned - and again THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU ! This is journalism as it should be.

reply to post by Zaphod58


I doubt it was Assad or his family much of those Rumors were actually started by reporters who are actually not surprising supportive of the FSA in general.

Thanks for saying so, and thanks to everyone contributing.

I'm happy (well, maybe not quite the right word) to do it, as I'm following it myself anyway, and appreciate others' input, things I might not have seen, or an angle on something I hadn't considered etc.

(I like these types of threads as well, everything in one place.)

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


I don't think it was Assad or his family. I DO think it was someone in the government going to Moscow for either meetings or to buy weapons/support. It's interesting that the first flight in 48 hours goes straight to Moscow, where a lot of countries in that region get weapons/training from.

Here's a few new articles, I'm just going to post the links and titles for now.

"US-NATO Sponsored Crimes against Humanity in Syria. Coverup by UN Human Rights Council - Why is the UNSMIS Houla Report Missing?" Global Research, December 02, 2012
www.globalresearch.ca...

"SYRIA: NATO’s Next “Humanitarian” War? ONLINE INTERACTIVE I-BOOK" By Prof Michel Chossudovsky
11 February 2012, Global Research, December 01, 2012
www.globalresearch.ca...

"The Final Push Against Syria" Tony Cartalucci Global Research, December 02, 2012; Land Destroyer 20 November 2012
www.globalresearch.ca...

Seems Russia's Vladimir Putin is due to visit Turkey tomorrow...

Russian President Vladimir Putin will meet with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan during a landmark visit to Istanbul on Monday to discuss their differences over the crisis in Syria.

The first half of the article goes blah blah blah... second half focuses on the issue of deployment of the Patriot Missile system by the US...

Russia objects to Turkey’s request to NATO for the deployment of Patriot missiles near its volatile border with Syria. It has warned that such a move could spark a broader conflict that would draw in the western military alliance.

So who's all for a "Patriot only fly zone" over Syria?

But Turkey insists the U.S.-made Patriots would be used for purely defensive purposes...

Uh, huh... Patriots to shoot down "stray mortar rounds".

The article goes on to down play the significance of such a move on the part of NATO, saying they "won't be installed any time soon", and Hillary Clinton is attending a meeting of Nato in Belgium this week, (but not about Syria).

english.alarabiya.net...

Theres a lot of spin in articles about the deployment of Patriot batteries to Turkey on the internet. This one is pretty direct. It even has a pic of purported "surveyors".

...a Turkish official has said. “It depends when the sight visiting team of NATO finishes its report. The number of Patriot batteries and their locations will be decided after the visiting team reports back to the alliance.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com...

Holy #! Just came across this on twitter, I googled and couldn't find anything else on it, I guess we'll see if this is real or what, or what the story is:

"Elements of the Free Army militia trying to shoot down a "civilian" in the city of Deir ez-Zor. 2.12.2012 Members of Free Army militia attempt to fire down a civil airplane in Deir Ezzor city, on 12.02.2012 "

fb page with video (not a youtube or I'd post it) :

www.facebook.com...