Strong Suggestions of Voter Fraud speaks to need of reform!

Okay folks, I bring you a story I'd be as happy to see debunked as confirmed. What it says about our system is that it's finally taken the leap into full banana republic elections. It may not even matter now that more physical votes (By over 100% in some cases) were cast than there are LIVING VOTERS.

MORE PEOPLE VOTED THAN EXISTED TO VOTE AT ALL. That was a normal state of affairs in some nations or..the number who COULD vote would come out at 90-99%. Again, it's laughably absurd. However, one doesn't argue when the Gulag is where one goes for the effort. We don't have a Gulag yet, so as this is further confirmed....It better damn well not be covered up.

First, the EVIDENCE. Here is the print (PDF) of the literal result totals as they have them now for St. Lucie Florida.

St Lucie overall voter participation totals

Now I want to make VERY VERY clear. I don't suggest Barack Obama, as an individual man, was sitting there overseeing felony cases of criminal election fraud...which this is beyond ANY mathematical question. There IS NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN THIS if the numbers don't just fall to pieces of repeated examination.

Out of 175,554 registered voters, 247,713 vote cards were cast in St. Lucie County, Florida on Tuesday. Barack Obama won the county.

When faced with the astronomical figures, Gertrude Walker, Supervisor of Elections for St. Lucie County, said she had no idea why turnout was so incredibly high. She was flabbergasted, saying, "We've never seen that here."

As for the Presidential race, there's no connection between Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Florida, right?

Source

I'd sure recommend people take a moment to glance over the first .PDF. The capture the original story took of it and what I included is enough to show the complete insane math of the situation. Someone or many someones told people to just go vote and keep at it...without even considering how the end results might look. SOMEONE assumed this would be another 50% turnout election so no chance that 147% of Registered voters actually WOULD vote to make the fraud SO obvious as to be comic.

Now realistically, I doubt anything happens to this. It'll likely become another piece of 2012 election lore and local legends in Florida. Similar to the Kennedy election for Chicago. He sure wasn't questioned or removed for how many dead men voted to get him there. However......to not note and hold this up would be almost criminal in itself for how it allows the fact it happened to fade and slip without notice.




If we do not ...BI PARTISAN... see some work to reform the election process which even UN observers this time were shocked by the lack of any checks, verification or accountability to individuals with, I don't know that we CAN honestly go forward from here and play like it's meaningful.

OVER 100% of voters...voting in an election....then damn near all (and MORE) going to just one guy?? ...and in a state the map shows very divided otherwise? Yah.... I see.....and I'm sure every election in Moscow and Baghdad were 100% fair, balanced and without the slightest hint of wrong doing. (BIG WINK) Indeed.




For a bit of clarifiction:

***** I updated the headline for this story to attempt to highlight the purpose for the thread, since it's attracting the usual 100% outright combat from partisans on all sides.

THIS IS NOT AN OBAMA/ROMNEY THREAD. The election, BY NATURE, must use these two men as examples. THEY ARE NOT THE POINT, REASON OR WHAT EVEN MATTERS ON THE 2012 ELECTION. THEY NEVER HAVE BEEN AND NEVER WILL BE.

The President is ONE race...One of many and the least important of them ALL on a national ballot for what actually MATTERS in the direct daily life of normal people.. The need for honesty in elections is BOTH directions and ABSOLUTE.

As stated in my OP and repeatedly down the thread.....The purpose here, after the election is done and over for President, is the need for reform and an end to the many different ways and levels of reliability and accuracy our system works on. This case (and noted by the recent annoucnement of recounts on this very issue at the local level) demonstrates the needs for reform and streamlining of a national system even the officials running it would seem to have serious confusion on, at the basic levels.

What are vote cards? I ask because if you look at the per precinct actual votes cast on that pdf, the percentage is way less than 100% of registered voters. It's true for all races on the ballot. I'm confused. Isn't turn out determined by actual votes cast? ....And why is it always Florida that has me scratching my head?

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
What are vote cards? I ask because if you look at the per precinct actual votes cast on that pdf, the percentage is way less than 100% of registered voters. It's true for all races on the ballot. I'm confused. Isn't turn out determined by actual votes cast? ....And why is it always Florida that has me scratching my head?

Voter Cards are the amount of ballot pages entered. So if the ballot was 3 pages and 100% of the people voted the Voter Card would be 300%. The number of voters compared to registered votes shows about an 80% turn out, down I believe from 2008. So it just seems as if the OP is confusing voter cards with actual votes.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Good find, OP. And with all due respect, I hope this gets debunked and thrown in the hoax forum.

Only because I can't imagine our system is that corrupt.

I've argued that our system is flawed but it still works. I want to believe it. I'd hate to be wrong again.

SnF

reply to post by MsAphrodite

It seems the election officials are equally confused. Now some people were describing an electronic card they were given at the ballot location to go and insert into a voting machine, which then would bring up the appropriate screens to vote on. Now this all sounded far too complex when the paper ballots in Missouri and other states still work just fine.

The problem? Someone I know who ran for state wide office in another state asked me one question that made me feel as bad as everyone else. Ours are all on paper...indeed..but are any humans actually reading those to produce the results seen and called by Tuesday night? (sigh) No... I had to admit..that too would be physicallty impossible given the mechanics of the boxes and when they are even opened in a physical sense. So..even the paper states are, for end results, 100% electronic.

The BIG difference? Well...at least there is paper to go back and look at. May not be much, but without it? There are two choices......since re-counts just mean hitting the enter button a second time to see the same number appear again ( ) We either have a re-election (which absolutely isn't happening...wouldn't suggest it) or we grin, take it and accept that reform to prevent it happening again is almost certainly NOT happening.

......It's particularly hard to stomach for me, as I've been among the more energetic to sell the idea of reform of the system, not it's destruction to start over. Looking at this though?? Even when one does vote ...in some places.... it's totally meaningless? I mean how can a real living citizen top the votes of more ghosts than voters?

reply to post by MrSpad


Well, I'd love to hear you explain why the professionals whose entire job is to insure this makes sense....can't make sense of it. It may be as simple as you say, but then why would Election Officials not simply say that?

Isn't it funny that there was just enough distance between the vote totals in FL to negate a recount?!

I saw that a day or two ago... and well Yea, if that graph is true then its evidence of fraud.

I wonder if a case like this would go to court, or be ignored?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by MrSpad

 

Well, I'd love to hear you explain why the professionals whose entire job is to insure this makes sense....can't make sense of it. It may be as simple as you say, but then why would Election Officials not simply say that?

edit on 11-11-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

The officials are talking about some ballots that were left and not counted at first that caused the counting to go on so long. Someone left a box behind or something and they are confused about how it happened. They are not confused about the number of cards. People are mixing up two different stories and making it into one.

Why don't you ppst whats going on in Arizona? I guess you only bring up voting fraud when your guy loses.

In Arizona there are still over 200,000 votes that have not been counted in Phoenix. Those votes could have very well removed Arpaio from office

reply to post by MrSpad

Okay, that is a great explanation......from nowhere? This is a deadly serious matter if math outright proves something that can't physically happen. Do you have links or support for the contrast between confused officials here......and what you suggest as an innocent oops moment?

I'd also note here....I'm showing the most obvious example. The article also cites Florida issues on other areas......like the 99% landslide totals for just a few specific locations and where others in the same area ran VERY different ...and more in line to the norm experienced state wide in Florida.

*** There is also a major point to note. The St Lucie Printouts there? They aren't even counting the Provo ballots yet. I wonder how the number looks when the provisionals are mixed in?

I really am hoping to see this debunked. The stories of the 2000 election are still haunting the process 12 years later. Examples like this....IF NOT debunked and in a definitive way people aren't left to debate for years to come....are what utterly destroy all faith, IMO.

reply to post by muse7


I think there is a thread for that here already.
I think the whole election process, including primaries, is a fraud perpetrated to make us think we still control our country, but that is just me.

reply to post by muse7

Muse, I'm posting what is happening in Florida. The bad conduct in one state DOES NOTHING to excuse, explain or somehow make right the felony criminal action in another.....if that is that these incidents are. You're very VERY dedicated to holding the Right side to account for everything that can ever be held up though, so I have no question you'll author a thread on Arizona if it means as much as you say. It's not my place to cover all 50 states....and this story caught my eye as actually being proven out in black and white numbers.....complete with the officials themselves confused to the outcome.

reply to post by MrSpad


Do you have any links or proof for us?
next line.

Originally posted by muse7
Why don't you ppst whats going on in Arizona? I guess you only bring up voting fraud when your guy loses.

In Arizona there are still over 200,000 votes that have not been counted in Phoenix. Those votes could have very well removed Arpaio from office

One thread at a time

Over 480,000 votes not counted yesterday in Maricopa County AZ

Better? or just looking for an argument?

I have to say, I was very shocked by the supposed total voter turnout numbers that were being reported on the internet the day after the election. I wouldn't be surprised if this election was the worst turnout ever. I didn't vote. I wouldn't feel right actually casting a vote for either of these clowns, and I know alot of people feel the same.

I want to share this as a piece for context. It may be confusing to some folks, why people like me would become infuriated over seeing this story and after the election is over. We all agree it's over. Even Romney himself agrees it's over. So indeed....Yes...It IS over and this isn't about that. No one is even joking about re-votes or anything like it. THAT would be more insane than the fraud this and other areas of Florida linked in the story (and showing their own County-level print outs for support) point to.

The idea here is a need for reform...BADLY needed reform and preferably before 2014. After 2000, the Dems DEMANDED reform and got almost none of it. Now, it's our side....and since the Dems rightly noted the need first, one would think the joint desire for reform could find no better time to get teeth and get some things DONE. No one yet knows or can even guess who is running in 2016. So NOTHING done in reform could even be joked as to target one guy or side over another.

However....Why do results like that and 99% turn out blowout numbers cause confusion and even rage in some folks? This is why. THIS is the state they say these miracles of one sided voting happened in. This isn't New York or Maine where it's so blue the Smurfs would feel out of place. Hardly......in fact, not even close.


(Source)

I don't want to baffle you with anything other than the facts. This post is simply untrue.

According to Wiki that latest population count for this county is just over 192,000. The official election map has 66,631 votes for Obama and 56,295 for Romney. Just under 800 votes went to other candidates. Well within normal limits for the population count.

Some of these things are easily refuted with just a 2 minute search. Get thee to the nearest MAP and see for yourself. Some trumped up PDF released to enrage people who don't want to do the research is just reckless.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Where does it say 99.9% turn-out?

All I see is 99.9% of the vote that did "turn-out" counted, as of the moment that screencap was shot.

The article in the OP is bunk. "Cards cast" is not the same as votes cast, since most ballots are made up of multiple cards. The blog author surely knew that and attempted to distort the news report, by changing the quote of an election official; the official did not say she was 'flabbergasted' over 'why turnout was so incredibly high' - what she said was this:

Gertrude Walker, Supervisor of Elections for St. Lucie County, said she is not sure why the Election Summary Report lists "Cards Cast" as 141%. "They may have had something like that in Palm Beach County, but we've never seen that here," she said.

In other words, she's never seen them report "cards cast" in such a manner.

The report goes on to list the percentage of total registered voters who voted, which stands at 70.7% - down from 2008.

70.7% of the district's 175,552 registered voters cast their ballots in the election. That's a lower percentage than the 2008 election, which saw 77% of registered voters cast ballots. Walker had originally predicted 80% of voters would turn out.

St. Lucie County election results posted, after hours of delay

In my opinion, the blog author (or possibly the elections officials) are both trying to be disingenuous in attempting to use a skewed stat to allege voter fraud.

According to Floridians who live in this county here is the reason for "Cards cast":

Here is the St. Lucie County tally sheet. "Cards cast" is not the same as voters who voted. No 141% turnout. is.gd/Zm41L9 PDF—
Nathan Wurtzel (@NathanWurtzel) November 10, 2012

It appears that “cards cast” refers to the number of ballots times the number of pages on each ballot. So if the ballot is two pages long, “cards cast” should be twice the number of ballots cast.

@jonnycabani There were 12 constitutional amendment questions in FL, so ballot or "card" was so big voters needed 2. Each cast 2 "cards."—
Nathan Wurtzel (@NathanWurtzel) November 10, 2012

It's doesn't say "votes cast", it says "cards cast". Each ballot consisted of (wait for it) TWO CARDS. Why is that so hard? #Sayfie—
Jacob Perry (@jacobperry) November 10, 2012

.@laborunionrpt No. Our ballot was 2 sheets to be fed into scanner. Each voter cast 2 "vote cards". % is number of cards vs reg voters.—
Jacob Perry (@jacobperry) November 10, 2012

Let me repeat: THERE WAS NOT 141% TURNOUT IN ST LUCIE CTY. Each ballot cast was "two cards". #sayfie—
Jacob Perry (@jacobperry) November 10, 2012

Source: Voter fraud rumor of the day: 141% voter turnout in St. Lucie County, Fla.

Maybe next time the OP will actually do some research into a topic before posting false rumors. I thought this site was about DENYING IGNORANCE, not buying into RW lies.