Strong Suggestions of Voter Fraud speaks to need of reform!

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posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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Case solved. Go to the home page of the linked site for an easy explaination. Ballots were 2 pages. So each voter had 2 cards. And not everyone did the second page of amendments. Thus less than a 2 card average per voter.

I am right wing myself. But the truth, is the truth.


NOTE* - TURNOUT PERCENTAGES WILL SHOW OVER 100% DUE TO A TWO PAGE BALLOT. NOT ALL VOTERS VOTED THE SECOND CARD CONTAINING THE AMENDMENTS


slcelections.com
edit on 11-11-2012 by elouina because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by cry93
I don't want to baffle you with anything other than the facts. This post is simply untrue.

According to Wiki that latest population count for this county is just over 192,000. The official election map has 66,631 votes for Obama and 56,295 for Romney. Just under 800 votes went to other candidates. Well within normal limits for the population count.

Some of these things are easily refuted with just a 2 minute search. Get thee to the nearest MAP and see for yourself. Some trumped up PDF released to enrage people who don't want to do the research is just reckless.
edit on 11-11-2012 by cry93 because: (no reason given)

Well, I'd just say your use of Wikipedia as a source says everything....and if you have more than opinion backed by a source you or I could change the data on easily enough, any time we feel like it, I'm wide open.

As it happens... Black up there replied with a sourced and solid one...so, for the 3rd time this morning, I'm going back over the Lucie and Broward county totals, side by side to card and turn out numbers, to verify what I got the first two times.

Even 2x's card to vote? numbers don't match...and they don't work. It's CLOSER ..when others say the numbers are outright unrepresentative of what the sheets explaining them state they are......which itself points to a MAJOR need for reform if nothing else went wrong. How half baked WAS this process if days later, the reporting from the officials is mislabele and misstated?

^^^ It's not entirely mis-stated tho...and I'll be back with more after I've done that 3rd go through. It'll take a bit....I was on this quite some time before posting it.....unlike a quick trip to Wiki to say it's all false.
edit on 11-11-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by elouina
Case solved. Go to the home page of the linked site for an easy explaination. Ballots were 2 pages. So each voter had 2 cards.


NOTE* - TURNOUT PERCENTAGES WILL SHOW OVER 100% DUE TO A TWO PAGE BALLOT. NOT ALL VOTERS VOTED THE SECOND CARD CONTAINING THE AMENDMENTS


slcelections.com

edit on 11-11-2012 by elouina because: (no reason given)


Elouina ...Except...the numbers are not doubled. Some are under...some come over...county by county, all over the state. So...The explanation works if the math shows it explains it. It doesn't and it's far enough off for both accuracy and CONSISTENCY of how off and in which direction individual places are to really wonder here.
edit on 11-11-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Duh, WIki used 2010 census data. Wow. I feel sad for you right now.


I'll leave you to your delusions now. You cannot be this thick. Find the election map, add up the numbers,and double it. Meaning, multiply by 2. Ta dah!


But if it will make you feel better you are welcomed to consult the raw census data for a population total, the only reason that I used Wiki in the first place.
edit on 11-11-2012 by cry93 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by elouina
Case solved. Go to the home page of the linked site for an easy explaination. Ballots were 2 pages. So each voter had 2 cards.


NOTE* - TURNOUT PERCENTAGES WILL SHOW OVER 100% DUE TO A TWO PAGE BALLOT. NOT ALL VOTERS VOTED THE SECOND CARD CONTAINING THE AMENDMENTS


slcelections.com



It won't matter elouina, the RW idiocy will run with this rumor like it was fact, the post is already on the front page of ATS. It's EASILY disproved - just go to page 3 of the PDF file linked in the OP and scroll to page 3 - the number of votes cast is listed there. You can even compare that number to "Cards cast" and see that the number of cards cast is double the number of votes cast - indicating the ballots were two cards long.

Bogus story, but that won't stop the RW idiocracy from trying to milk it for all it's worth from morons who can't read past a headline.


PS: the original thread title was "2012 Voter Fraud is Established fact". Wrabbit you should just admit you made a mistake in posting a bogus rumor instead of editing your post title.
edit on 11-11-2012 by Blackmarketeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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The Florida ballot for Seminole county was 2 cards front and back some people did not fill out the entirety of both forms. I do not see what is so hard to understand here.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


The external text that I quoted stated that not everyone turned in a second card with the amendments. Thus a less than 2 card ave per voter.

reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Once again we agree.

edit on 11-11-2012 by elouina because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


The difference in the raw voting numbers and the total cards reported is ~ 300 cards or 150 votes.

This could indicate that some people either wrote in a candidate,used provisional ballots that have not been counted yet, and/or those people didn't vote for president at all. In the grand scheme Romeny lost this county by over 10,000 votes and almost 8.5% of the total electorate who decided to vote this cycle. This county showed up in high numbers, too.

But maybe we should call in the Scooby Van to find those ~150 votes? Clearly there is a need for reform here.


And yes, some people may have not bothered to turn in or fill out the 2nd card.
edit on 11-11-2012 by cry93 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 

Okay, so black, the fact the paperwork and reporting requirements of the State and County level officials have no relation to reality in labels means nothing? The fact the numbers DO NOT make sense...even when mutiplied by two...as you say (and this seems to indicate) we need to do, so the original labels make sense as they are supposed to.......under a different system in use, is no issue? (??) See the..problems here?

Let me get this straight..so we're clear here. The numbers here and across Florida do not suggest to you that future reform and correction to a system that is confusing at best and by the most positive motives attributed, are needed?

The reaction confuses me....in fact, baffles me. Just literal DAYS ago......this was a point of general agreement. One guy wins by a razor margin in popular and actual vote as Americans stand to cast them...but wins in electoral college (You know...that system everyone hated until THIS election and now 50% of the nation seems to SWEAR by like the best thing ever invented?) and now.....after outcome.... All is good and ALL the reforms good people agree were needed as recently as last month are totally unnecessary now?

^^^ This is what it seems to be as the default and flat argument to the ultra-partisans. As it happens...I've been hard on the side of defending the Electoral College and stlll am. I'm not going to even play like saying this...



........Was what the E.C. was intended to create for outcome. Again.... It's over.. fair enough....For this one. Won't both sides find common ground on the need to fix a broken system? For gods sake, the whole system didn't repair itself and pop out magical after *DECADES* of dysfunction just because this man is who benefited most this time. It's STILL a broken bird, no pun intended.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by elouina
 

I love your logic...and it makes the case better than anything else for how it's confusion at a level which should never exist in elections, anywhere.

In one approach...we have to take the number, multiply by two and..Ahhh.. It makes sense now. Err.. hell.. no it doesn't. Ahh! So now, we need to take the number, multiply by two and then subtract....uh oh.. There, went right off the rails.


We don't have a number known to subtract by. Hence, the fact that should make it all come out right is as much hope and educated guessing as anything else. Hence...the whole nature of the problem. Nothing about the U.S. voting system SHOULD require extensive qualification and footnoting of a basic report of that nature......just so the Elections Officials themselves can make sense of it, let alone us normal folk.

* I'm still noting, BTW....even all the odd numbers in the report I posted? State the Provisional Ballots were not counted at the time it was put together. Those are numbers still very incomplete in that, MORE is yet to come. Oh..it ought to be interesting given that.

...Of course, it would still look a bit odd...if I were alone in seeng issues here. The Courts seem to agree though. Something was just a little off.


The Fort Pierce mayoral race recount set for Saturday has been postponed indefinately to allow for the possibility that a court orders the county to recount its U.S. House District 18 votes, too, said Supervisor of Elections Gertrude Walker on Thursday night.

Election night unofficial results had five votes separating Vince Gaskin and Linda Hudson in the Fort Pierce mayoral race. No updated results have been released.

It’s not known when a circuit court judge in St. Lucie County will hear U.S. Rep. Allen West’s demand for a District 18 recount, which he filed Thursday afternoon. West also requested a recount in Palm Beach County, and a hearing there is scheduled for Friday at noon.

The District 18 recount in St. Lucie County would take place Wednesday before the state’s Thursday deadline for recounts, Walker said. Walker expects a recount would take all day Wednesday, she said. City races don’t follow the same deadline as county, state and federal races, Walker said.

The general counsel for the state Division of Elections advised the county elections office to put off the recount for the Fort Pierce race until a decision is made about the Dist. 18 race because they involve some of the same ballots, Walker said.
Source


UPDATE: Allen West campaign manager Tim Edson issued a statement late Friday that accused St. Lucie County of possibly trying to cover something up. The statement read in part:

“It is just curious that all of a sudden at 12 a.m. on Wednesday morning, the county decided to re-run a number of early voting ballots, taking West’s tally from up 1,700 vs. Murphy to down 2,400. A key question that needs to be answered is does the poll book count match the votes cast. The fact that Walker (St. Lucie Supervisor of Elections Gertrude Walker) has been huddling behind closed doors with her attorney, rather than completing the vote count is disconcerting to say the least. If you have nothing to hide, you don’t hide.”
Source - CBS News

The fact something odd happened here is a fact noticed by many.
edit on 11-11-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Doubt such an important election would have the potential for fraud but you never know..



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


You can't be this dense. The PDF you linked to in your own opening post shows the number of votes, starting on page 3, and at no time did it ever go over 100% of the registered voters. In fact it never came close.

Beginning on page 3, the total votes cast (column 3) and number of registered voters (column 1):



Compare that to the "CARDS cast", from page 1:



You can do math (I hope) and can see that "CARDS cast" is double the number of votes cast. Meaning each ballot was 2 cards long, which is exactly what the voters who live in this county and commented on this rumor have been saying all along.

You are bending over backwards to obfuscate your own topic, when all you had to do is compare "cards cast" to "votes cast".



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 

Can you make a reply without personal name calling or attacks? I mean it's a pattern and one I've about had it with. I debate topic, not people. One is constructive discussion. The other is trolling. You're making some interesting points..........and court cases are obviously lining up to see about the fact or the issues behind this.

However.... Republicans, Conservatives or any other AMERICANS are not Dense, idiots, ill informed or ignorant. To just cover what you've called me...or in some general way called the whole group I generally identify with, in this one thread alone.

If I had started this thread saying "OBAMA STOLE THE ELECTION!" I would absolutely be mistaken and to an epic level. That isn't what my premise was or is now. I am pushing for R E F O R M. That was a call heard from both sides and loudly......right to a few days ago. Odd how that works.

I'd really love the discussion without the personal attacks though. It's not just a good idea, Black, it's outright T&C and on my own thread, I DO have the right to at least make that observation. Anyone can be wrong.....and Ignorance isn't necessarily derogatory. Your use of it, with the other terms? Well... Like I said... T&C is clear and I know I've run the end of my patience debating with that level of come back.


**** On your points... Argue with someone who says this absolutely happened in precisely the way the article says? You make sense. You're arguing with someone who merely holds up the need to look into, understand and then reform what made these numbers, confusion and related smell of bad conduct happen in the first place.

Until recently, there was a concept in this nation that ALMOST carried as much importance as laws themselves. The concept was the need to avoid the *APPEARANCE* of wrong doing....and not simply have the best explanation when the appearance goes to hell. The purpose was so confusion and possibly misplaced feelings of rage among the public not happen over nothing. The loss of that concept is the greatest loss of all, IMO.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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I don't question your sincerity or motive in this particular Wrabbit2000 but I too suspect there's a simple explanation for all this. What should be bothering people however it that the National Election Pool now tells us WHO are next president will be with only a small number of votes counted and no exit polling being done!

Voter fraud is extremely rare though the Republicans will tell you otherwise. Voting fraud is rampant however and that includes everything from machines that switch votes to caging lists to throwing out provisional ballots.

What's not happening though is any kind of complete and accurate count. We seem to have bypassed that altogether in favor of allowing the NEP (associated press more or less) to tell us who we elected.

Although Carl Rove made an art of stealing elections that does not mean the Dems aren't just as capable or likely to do the same. I find it impossible to believe that less people voted than in the 2008 race and that Romney got a smaller percentage of the vote than McCain did. Or you can just believe that the majority of Californians would rather not know if GMO's are in their food even though polls showed them in favor of it 2 to 1 before the election.

If you believe that then I've got a low-mileage 61 volkswagen bug you might wanna buy
edit on 11-11-2012 by Asktheanimals because: spelling errors kuhrrected!



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Are you saying the same people voted over and over? How can you walk into a polling place multiple times and vote? They have you sign the register give you a ballot and you go through the process. Paper ballots are then fed into a machine and I don't know what happens to them from there. I don't remember ever using a touch screen. If you can just keep using that screen over and over is the only way I can imagine.
So it's not just vote flipping, but more votes being tallied than people to vote.
Since there is a record of how many votes to how many people and they don't add up, there should definitely be an investigation.

I hope Soros gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar of those Spanish machines. He nees his butt thrown out of the USA once and for all, and take his sons with him.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


ahem.... take the first line withe 4815 registered voters. 4815 x2 is 9630 not what is showing on the line. The only way for that to be accurate is for not all the registered voters to have voted. But your claim that all the numbers show an exact double is not true.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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I've already offered a simple solution. Find an election map for the final count in St Lucie County. It's all there.

Surely with all the lawyers on the ground in FL people didn't walk in and vote multiple times. The final figures do not even support this, either. It just didn't happen.

I am at a loss as to why anyone is still confused. This is my last post on this topic. Just wow.
edit on 11-11-2012 by cry93 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by cry93
 


Sadly, because your simple and likely example doesn't fit in to what they believe so it will be ignored and distorted in order to fit their worldview.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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So I read through each reply, one by one. I see no evidence of voter fraud. Just Florida being confusing for confusions sake.

That state is so f-d up when it comes to elections it's not even funny. Standing in line for seven hours to cast a vote and the governor sees no problem with it. Mind-boggling.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
The Florida ballot for Seminole county was 2 cards front and back some people did not fill out the entirety of both forms. I do not see what is so hard to understand here.


It doesn't matter if people didn't fill out both cards, the card is still cast. Those cards are fed into machines which counts them. Notice there is a special number for blank cards?





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