Lucifer "Light Bearer" / God "Light CREATOR" (Soul is black hole taking Light of reality)...

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Why do you have so much trust in Paul's words? He is the wolf in sheep's clothing, he is the one Jesus warned us about. He is the one who turned Jesus' message from love to blind faith, he is the trojan horse sent by the Romans.

Do Paul's words have more meaning to you than Jesus'? To imply that there is a first and last contradicts Matt 20:16, to think otherwise is cognitive dissonance, something the church (founded by Paul/Peter) has been very effective in using to their advantage.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Your explanation doesn't fit in with the context of the parable. The ones you say that are humble are the same ones who complained about not being payed enough. Not very humble of them, more like greedy.

I think this parable has a double meaning, the first meaning is that the first will be given the same pay as the last, the pay represents life. The first being payed the same as the last symbolizes unity and oneness in my opinion.

The other meaning is that no matter whether you're an old man who has worked (lived) in the vineyard (Earth/cosmos) all your life or a baby who dies after only a short time of working (living) in the vineyard (Earth/cosmos), you will be given life either way.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Why do you have so much trust in Paul's words? He is the wolf in sheep's clothing, he is the one Jesus warned us about. He is the one who turned Jesus' message from love to blind faith, he is the trojan horse sent by the Romans.

Do Paul's words have more meaning to you than Jesus'? To imply that there is a first and last contradicts Matt 20:16, to think otherwise is cognitive dissonance, something the church (founded by Paul/Peter) has been very effective in using to their advantage.

Paul had it right. The job of savior is that of Christ. The Son of God is the one that must be the substitute sacrifice for mankind, just as God provided the substitute for Abraham. If we could do it ourselves by our own works, then the death on the cross has no meaning. When you read the sermon on the mount, there is little chance anyone could do this themselves. Christ was clearly speaking about what must be done by him to find salvation and forgiveness. Mankind is not capable of this. Only Christ could do this for us. The bar was set high by his own words of that sermon. This was his work in us. It's a gift.

Matthew 5

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The key to making it to the kingdom if belief. We know this. The other key is our own hearts. The Pharisees and and the teachers of the law were manipulating the law for their own advantage. They were expressing duplicity and being double minded toward others. They were not giving, but taking. This is symbolic of God saying, "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated." Jacob was a farmer and Esau was a hunter. Farmers give and hunters take. The Farmer invests in the family and the hunter takes and transmutes what is taken into tools and clothing. One invests in the inner life and the other the outer. The experts today are represented by Peter and the Roman Catholic Church. They are represented by the moneychangers and the builders (Masons) who reject the chief cornerstone. The cornerstone is giving and love, just as Jesus and Paul stated.

In Matthew 5, he goes on to show that murder is beyond the act and simply being angry. Adultery is beyond the act and even looking. He continues through all the sins that are identified with being a thief. At the very end, he says this:

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

On the cross, there hung two thieves. One repented and was saved. The other denied the truth. Both were thieves. Paul was right.

Ephesians 2

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Grace is unmerited favor. Christ is the only one that can boast of the perfection that God demands. We are raised to this same new life in the 1000 year reign and not before. Salvation comes at the end of the 1000 years and not before. Sin and death still reign until Christ puts an end to the one causing the problem.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Your explanation doesn't fit in with the context of the parable. The ones you say that are humble are the same ones who complained about not being payed enough. Not very humble of them, more like greedy.

I think this parable has a double meaning, the first meaning is that the first will be given the same pay as the last, the pay represents life. The first being payed the same as the last symbolizes unity and oneness in my opinion.

The other meaning is that no matter whether you're an old man who has worked (lived) in the vineyard (Earth/cosmos) all your life or a baby who dies after only a short time of working (living) in the vineyard (Earth/cosmos), you will be given life either way.

edit on 11-11-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-11-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I like your explanation of the workers, yet you are missing the point. They ones that worked the hardest were the ones that grumbled. Pride is grumbling against God. It places the self first. Humility is the worker that did not need to work as long to find life at the end. Notice that the humble did not agree to the set fee. They only agreed to what was right. The last workers were not hired at all. They were simply told to go work.

Figure it out. The first workers were not looking to help the landowner. They were after the money. The second shift was only told to work for what was right. They agreed. The last ones hired were not told they would earn anything. They worked for free, yet received a wage anyway. Do you see the difference? The ones that sought payment were looking out for themselves and not the landowner. The second shift had hope of payment. The last were simply willing to work with no hope offered because the landowner prompted them to do something besides wait around.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


But we are already in heaven, don't you see? Works is what matters, not faith. Since our ancestors didn't do good works we are stuck with the results of their iniquity. If faith truly saved then why are we in this situation right now? At least 2 billion people have faith in Jesus yet the world is getting more and more screwed up as time goes on. If you have faith and no works this is what happens.

Just because Paul said it does not make it true. Until you open up to the possibility that the bible has been edited then you will never understand. That's the problem with faith, if you have enough of it you will ignore all the contradictions. The main reason to have faith is to stay away from hell, right? Well guess what, we're already in hell. So much for faith saving the world.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You just said that the first were humble. The first are the ones who worked the hardest because they worked longer, now you say the ones who worked hardest were the ones grumbling. Are they humble or prideful?

You have changed the story up now, that is a sign of cognitive dissonance.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

But we are already in heaven, don't you see? Works is what matters, not faith. Since our ancestors didn't do good works we are stuck with the results of their iniquity. If faith truly saved then why are we in this situation right now? At least 2 billion people have faith in Jesus yet the world is getting more and more screwed up as time goes on. If you have faith and no works this is what happens.

Just because Paul said it does not make it true. Until you open up to the possibility that the bible has been edited then you will never understand. That's the problem with faith, if you have enough of it you will ignore all the contradictions. The main reason to have faith is to stay away from hell, right? Well guess what, we're already in hell. So much for faith saving the world.

edit on 12-11-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

It's no secret that the NT predicted that the last day would demonstrate the rise of the wicked and righteous together in one generation. All of us are here. You can see why in this link. Dead Sea Scroll to the Instructor

Quote from above document:

"False deeds are thus an abomination to the truth, whereas all the ways of truth are for perversity equally a disgrace. Fierce dispute attends every point of decision, for they can never agree. In his mysterious insight and glorious wisdom God has countenanced an era in which perversity triumphs, but at the time appointed for visitation He shall destroy such forever. Then shall truth come forth in victory upon the earth. Sullied by wicked ways while perversity rules, at the time of the appointed judgment truth shall be decreed. By His truth God shall then purify all human deeds, and refine some of humanity so as to extinguish every perverse spirit from the inward parts of the flesh, cleansing from every wicked deed by a holy spirit. "

Here is where Paul tells us that the righteous and wicked would rise on the last day. We also know this from Isaiah and may other verses.

Acts 24

15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

We also know this will be the case in all of Revelation. This video will assist you with may bible verses:

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You just said that the first were humble. The first are the ones who worked the hardest because they worked longer, now you say the ones who worked hardest were the ones grumbling. Are they humble or prideful?

You have changed the story up now, that is a sign of cognitive dissonance.

The first are the ones that are proud. They are last to leave the vineyard and to be paid. The last are first. They are the humble ones. They are the first to be paid.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


The last to go into the vineyard said that no one had hired them, that means they were looking to be paid as well. To hire is to pay for work, why would they have waited all day long if they didn't expect to be paid? That contradicts them saying they were waiting to be hired. That would defeat the whole purpose of them waiting all day to be hired, only until the vineyard owner agreed to hire them did they work.

I understand what you mean but I don't think it fits into the context of the parable.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


So you're telling me that before this generation the righteous and wicked never lived together? The righteous and the wicked have been living together since the beginning of history. Jesus was righteous while the Romans were wicked and they both lived in the same generation. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So you're telling me that before this generation the righteous and wicked never lived together? The righteous and the wicked have been living together since the beginning of history. Jesus was righteous while the Romans were wicked and they both lived in the same generation. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

This is actually explained in Esdra 2. Aside from this, they have always been on the Earth. The Resurrection is when all of them are here together. Most researchers believe that there as many people living today as have ever lived from the beginning of humanity. This is a witness to what the Bible says in Revelation 1:7.

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

Cloud is the word nephelē. It also derives the word Nephilim, a cloud of evil spirits covering the people. This usage was shown in the book of Enoch 1 to describe the Evil Beings that corrupted Mankind. The cloud was the same as the one in Jude 1 and Enoch to describe Jesus coming in the clouds with an army of angels to rescue mankind.

I go into to this further in the latest article linked in my signature. Follow it if you choose.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So you're telling me that before this generation the righteous and wicked never lived together? The righteous and the wicked have been living together since the beginning of history. Jesus was righteous while the Romans were wicked and they both lived in the same generation. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

Another way to understand this is to show you what Jesus means when He says, "You must be born again." This is tied to baptism and like I said, I cover this in the signature link with two articles. Jesus was the last Adam. He said, "You must be born again." He refused to entrust Himself to others and said this:

John 2

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

Now consider Esdra 2.

[33] Then I answered and said, How, and when shall these things come to pass? wherefore are our years few and evil?
[34] And he answered me, saying, Do not thou hasten above the most Highest: for thy haste is in vain to be above him, for thou hast much exceeded.
[35] Did not the souls also of the righteous ask question of these things in their chambers, saying, How long shall I hope on this fashion? when cometh the fruit of the floor of our reward?
[36] And unto these things Uriel the archangel gave them answer, and said, Even when the number of seeds is filled in you: for he hath weighed the world in the balance.
[37] By measure hath he measured the times; and by number hath he numbered the times; and he doth not move nor stir them, until the said measure be fulfilled.
[38] Then answered I and said, O Lord that bearest rule, even we all are full of impiety.
[39] And for our sakes peradventure it is that the floors of the righteous are not filled, because of the sins of them that dwell upon the earth.
[40] So he answered me, and said, Go thy way to a woman with child, and ask of her when she hath fulfilled her nine months, if her womb may keep the birth any longer within her.
[41] Then said I, No, Lord, that can she not. And he said unto me, In the grave the chambers of souls are like the womb of a woman:
[42] For like as a woman that travaileth maketh haste to escape the necessity of the travail: even so do these places haste to deliver those things that are committed unto them.
[43] From the beginning, look, what thou desirest to see, it shall be shewed thee.
[44] Then answered I and said, If I have found favour in thy sight, and if it be possible, and if I be meet therefore,
[45] Shew me then whether there be more to come than is past, or more past than is to come.
[46] What is past I know, but what is for to come I know not.
[47] And he said unto me, Stand up upon the right side, and I shall expound the similitude unto thee.
[48] So I stood, and saw, and, behold, an hot burning oven passed by before me: and it happened that when the flame was gone by I looked, and, behold, the smoke remained still.
[49] After this there passed by before me a watery cloud, and sent down much rain with a storm; and when the stormy rain was past, the drops remained still.
[50] Then said he unto me, Consider with thyself; as the rain is more than the drops, and as the fire is greater than the smoke; but the drops and the smoke remain behind: so the quantity which is past did more exceed.
[51] Then I prayed, and said, May I live, thinkest thou, until that time? or what shall happen in those days?
[52] He answered me, and said, As for the tokens whereof thou askest me, I may tell thee of them in part: but as touching thy life, I am not sent to shew thee; for I do not know it.

questonterra

 

 

As I understand your very concise post, you mean "the righteous should remain silent" (see above postings by others) and is exhibited by the removal of your own post (by others) to this valued thread.