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Dignity In Loss.

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posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Reply to post by Jeremiah65
 


My question about this whole thing is about the one thing that people hate about when Democrats get into, or keep power, and that is universal healthcare.

Why do you Americans hate it so much?


 
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posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by domasio
 


Here's what we don't like:

Big government.

Forcing us to buy a product we don't want.

Is it Constitutional to allow the government to force a citizen to spend money on somthing they mandate?

It almost didn't pass supreme court muster, but one of the conservative judges changed his mind.



posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by MRuss
reply to post by domasio
 


Here's what we don't like:

Big government.

Forcing us to buy a product we don't want.

Is it Constitutional to allow the government to force a citizen to spend money on somthing they mandate?

It almost didn't pass supreme court muster, but one of the conservative judges changed his mind.

The only way it passed SCOTUS was because the mandate was declared a "tax". However, because it is now a tax the bill is still Un-Constitutional.

Article I Section 7 The US Constitution:
All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.


The House of Representatives must begin the process when it comes to raising and spending money. It is the chamber where all taxing and spending bills start. The Senate can offer changes and must ultimately approve the bills before they go to the president, but only the House may introduce a bill that involves taxes. The Abominable Care Act currently in force began in the Senate not the House. It needs to be vacated and the House can then revisit the bill appropriately.



posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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Not to mention the price of gas went up 30 cents over night firs raise in a month



posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5
To answer that question...I am old fashioned and overly patriotic I guess. If Romney won the election, I would ask why...because my American bretheren made that choice for a reason and that ability to choose is at the foundation of democracy.


I like to look at the demographics to the voters too. Over a month ago I said that Obama was going to win because Romney had to overcome huge hurdles and in a tight race there was no way. One such hurdle was that Obama was guaranteed to get close to 160 electoral votes from 6 states. Those six states like CA, NY, IL, ME, OH and PA I have zero ideology in common and I don't see those states as what America should be like.

With that said the other demographic of how counties voted is interesting. In FL Obama got 12 out of 67 counties but the few he got were big city population areas, the same in his home state of IL where he got 22 out of 102 counties, but once again it was basically Chicago and one other big city that trumped most of the other 100 or so counties, OH is 16 counties out of 88 for Obama and we see one or two big city areas trumping the whole state.

It is hard to find a state where Obama pulled the most counties even when he won the state, and the demographics that his voting base was basically one or two big cities in many states. So I really wonder what drives this, is that what America is now with the ideology of just the big cities? I personally see most big cities as a hell hole I would never want to live in, but that is what drives our elections, and Obama did a masterful job of cuddling up to the unions, minorities, dense subsistence populations, and people with more radical views that we see in the typical big city.

So basically these big cities were the driving force to his victory and I just have zero in common with the way they live and think.




What did other Americans see that I might not have? See...I disagree with Republicans, but I do not think they are Nazi's...i know they are good people at heart and voted for what they believed best for the country...what did they see? Where-as Republicans seem wed to this idea that every Democrat and now over half the country are "Socialists"...How long can one cling to that hateful falsehood and still recognize we are one American family?


I see Obama wanting to get something from nothing. A big government doesn't mean socialism, but it does mean that we most likely cannot afford it. I keep wondering where do we get the money to pay for everything, when a large population of America is on some form of subsistence who pays for it? Obama was great with his class warfare, but it has been shown over and over the numbers just do not add up. We have seen that the tax raises on the rich can run the country for 10 days and that accounts to nothing...so where do we get the money to pay for a bigger Government? What do we do when we hit 20 trillion with no way out of that hole?

These are questions that I ask and there is no answer with Obama to fix it. Hopefully his 4 years of on the job training has evolved him into someone that can actually get something done. I kind of feel that is what most that voted on him feel, and that is a sorry way to think that America had to suffer for 4 years just so he just might get his act together...lol



edit on 7-11-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by MRuss
 


Obama won. That does not bother me much even though I will forever be against him for the simple reason he started his politics in Chicago.Not because of his color or even because he is a Democrat. That does not matter anymore though.

What does matter is you mentioned "We" and "Them". In the days leading to the elections I listened to what was being said by posters here, what was happening in the news and being said there, and even to the people in the local coffee shop.


Because of what I have seen and heard I say this. Obama is the leader of the most racist, sexist, minority hating coalition I have ever seen. They make the KKK look like a bunch of pansies. It is also the coalition of the most ungrateful groups ever assembled. Because of this I hope the Republican party will continue to be the party of NO. If these people are successful with the beliefs and hatred that they have I have fears for the survival of any part of the human race. I believe what divides us is bigger due to them then what binds us. So bring it all down so we all can start over.



posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Dreine
I wake up this morning with the realization that the America I was raised to know growing up in the '80's and '90's... the capitalist system championed by Ronald Reagan and such... is gone. It is a memory now.

The America I see today is a socialist nation. The people of this country crave socialism, and they have made their voice heard as witnessed last night.

I do not share their vision for the future, and I realize now that I am in the minority. I had suspected as much, but knowing it for certain now is a semi-bitter pill to swallow.

Perhaps that makes me old-fashioned and out-dated. I honestly don't know at this point.



The America you see today is a creation of Reagan. Everything he did, massive spending and tax cuts and passing on that debt to next guy was followed by every President since then. Also anybody who thinks America is socialist or even leaning that way has no idea what the word means.



posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Obama only won in populist states where the poor and people living with entitlements are prolific.

That's it.

No one else wanted him.



posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by domasio
 


Because...

I want to preface and reply to Darth as well....don't take my post as statist...just stating a fact...I voted for GJ...I am a card carrying Libertarian.

Domasio...

Because it is just not about Healthcare. It is about being imposed upon...being dictated to...told that you MUST do something...in this case, it is you MUST buy a private industry product. In this case...health insurance.

If the POTUS wanted Universal Healthcare, then he should have went with a single payer system...aka...socialized medicine.

This move to force us to "buy" a product is a thinly veiled prop for a particular business...a business that remarkably, is backed by the securities exchange...yeah you know, those guys on Wall Street. What it essentially does is assure that these companies are going to thrive and be successful and there is going to be plenty of our money to throw away in the markets. It is the absolute definition (imho) of crony capitalism...we are forced to buy a product that assures the success of a particular industry...what's next? Are they going to demand we buy a new car every 5 years or a car that gets a certain mpg?...oh wait...that is already coming...
edit on 11/7/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)
edit on 11/7/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)





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