A compiled list of what We are learning from Sandy

I know there are a plethora of Sandy threads currently going on, but what i wanted to have is a thread that deals more in education of this real world crisis and what we are learning from it and perhaps how to change it for future generations so they don't have to go through so much devastation.

i chose the survival forum because lets face it, that's what these people are trying to do, survive.

some of the things i am learning are.

1) government officials cannot be trusted with helping the masses.

2) people cannot be educated fast enough to avoid catastrophe

3) business seems to be more important to the media and elected officials, than human life

4) our current infrastructure is outdated and cannot be relied upon to help, in a catastrophic situation

5) future prediction here, we will see even more freedom and liberty evaporate during and in the aftermath of this situation, by the very people who were not there to help us during the crisis

seems getting the NYSE going again is far more important than saving lives to our elected officials.
how far will the American people allow this to go and will most even realize the level of deception at all.

one of the lessons we all know too well is self preparedness and i'm certain that will be all we have when the economic collapse takes place or any future natural ones. all we have is each other and that's much easier to accomplish in the suburbs and rural areas but in the city i do not think it's possible for at least the first several weeks after.

i cannot blame the people for not being more prepared simply because it's almost impossible in a city designed as NYC is. where do you put the generator when you live on the 30th floor? nowhere because it's not feasible and the government knew this, so why were these people not forced to leave? uncaring and poor planning probably describes it best.

where is all the food, water and medical supplies that should have been brought is for this disaster, it's nowhere because no one ordered any nor planned ahead in any way shape or form, you know the ones you pay your taxes to, they don't care about your well being.

it's my hope that we can all help make changes to the judicial and legislative branches of our government because it's painfully obvious where they stand during such tragedy's and that's with their money bags.

the thread is here for educational proposes and i hope anyone with insight on the problem area's, as well as ideas on change would participate in the discussion. the time of complaining is over and now we must all learn something or face a possible situation like this in our own back yards.

biggest things they should learn there are - be prepared , have supplies of food , firstaid kits etc in the house. self reliance - its up to you to save your arse not the government or aid groups .... how to pull together as a communitg and help each other instead of killing.. raping and looting as they're doing now ... but never happen as westerners too greedy, materialistic and only concerned about themselves ....

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


We have learned---
-people won't leave even when told to
-people won't stock up on enough food or water or fuel even when told to
-people will loot/steal if they think they can get away with it
-people will blame the government
-people will threaten/beat up/kill others to get what they want first
-people waiting in lines will become violent
-most people are stupid/ selfish, and impatient

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


One thing I noticed while watching it all was that the first thing to set up is the infrastructure, continuity so that bases can then coordinate the efforts.

What I found rather foolish was that in priority the media came before the people, if the media does not keep sufficient back up for emergencies then they should not be in the business.

I really do not know if we are learning from any from the disasters of the past decade, seems we need to set up think tanks that include more than the military industrial complex and continuity of Government.

Originally posted by Expat888
biggest things they should learn there are - be prepared , have supplies of food , firstaid kits etc in the house. self reliance - its up to you to save your arse not the government or aid groups .... how to pull together as a communitg and help each other instead of killing.. raping and looting as they're doing now ... but never happen as westerners too greedy, materialistic and only concerned about themselves ....

i agree that people need to rely on themselves but not only that they need above all to realize our govt. isn't going to be there for us, even though they use our tax dollars for it and say they will.

i wouldn't say it's a westerners issue, more so a global society issue. just ask anyone who relies on the Japanese govt, or TEPCO for help.

you see what i did there?

yes i'm saying world governments, corporation's and major media outlets are on one team and we the people of the world are on another.

reply to post by NotThat


I watched diligently in the days before the disaster and it was mixed messages all over the board, for instance the media was hyping ppl have 3 days worth of water and food, but then in the same breath they said power could be out for extended periods of time including up to weeks in some areas.

Now interestingly enough there was also a big push about hording and preppers being considered terrorists, so where is the dividing line between prepping for the unknowns and being a prepper/terrorist?

The next time you see good ole Bill Clinton and George Bush doing another Red Cross advertisement asking for your donations remember this and Katrina. They NEVER seem to send the food and help needed. NOT EVEN 1 BOX.. Therefore I am forced to believe they are all crooks!

I think the single most important speech by the Governor was when he stated openly weather is no longer going to be a gentle or predictable force of nature and that these types of emergencies are now the new norm. Did people listen to that? I doubt it because they only listen to what they want to and not the reality between the lines of what is being given to them.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


It's westerners problem. Here in Japan we didn't have loots or this kind of trouble. And the people united and shared what they had, even if it was not much.

Eastern society has a group mentality, while westerners nowadays are almost all ndividualists.

While it is very easy to be an armchair critic, we must look into REALITIES if we are to learn anything from this disaster.

Food, water, preparedness, etc had longed been prepared for normal storms, but most certainly not for a superstorm the size that Sandy was. It was once in a lifetime event, and fortunately, at leat many more lives had been saved by the earlier warnings from the met, govt, and social media.

Secondly, the scope of delivery of aid to victims is much hampered by transportation across greatly flooded zones. The use of helicopters is not the solution as the winds are still strong which will hamper delivery.

Thirdly, the amount of victims are to the tune of millions awaited electrical supply, which the infrastructure was built above ground instead of underground. Generators can be repaired in short time, but the rebuilding the lines will take time.

Fourthly, the subway stations underground electrical units are exposed, not built water-tigt or resistant, thus will be greatly affected by the flooding, which runs for thousands of miles.

Etc, etc.

Hindsight is often easy enough, but this is not a time for blame games as OP had intended this thread for, judging by his first post. If this thread was intended to 'learn lessons', then lets be constructive with facts and not with allegations or unsubstiated beliefs.

Originally posted by NotThat
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

We have learned---
-people won't leave even when told to
-people won't stock up on enough food or water or fuel even when told to
-people will loot/steal if they think they can get away with it
-people will blame the government
-people will threaten/beat up/kill others to get what they want first
-people waiting in lines will become violent
-most people are stupid/ selfish, and impatient

well like i said you have to look at human nature and rely on common sense. this comes down to what i mentioned before, there is no way to educate people fast enough so they must be forced to leave, at gunpoint if need be.

i think they should not only hold the govt. to blame, they should demand their tax dollars back because the govt. didn't deliver. accountability and responsibility, neither can be found in today's governments anywhere.

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

One thing I noticed while watching it all was that the first thing to set up is the infrastructure, continuity so that bases can then coordinate the efforts.

What I found rather foolish was that in priority the media came before the people, if the media does not keep sufficient back up for emergencies then they should not be in the business.

I really do not know if we are learning from any from the disasters of the past decade, seems we need to set up think tanks that include more than the military industrial complex and continuity of Government.

yes i agree the media and other frivolous things are coming first. good point to remember for the future.

people need to get together with like minded other people in their locations and prepare for this scenario. prepare as if your life depends on it and like the government doesn't exist to help you, because they don't currently.

you and i are learning and we will teach others, that's where it all begins.

reply to post by antar


They never listen, look how many died because they thought the storm was just hype. (Some posters were saying this even here on ATS)

In addition to learning that people will be looting, we also learned that there may not be coverage of it (the looting) in the MSM.

Originally posted by hououinkyouma
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

It's westerns problem. Here in Japan we didn't have loots or this kind of trouble. And the people united and shared what they had, even if it was not much.

Eastern society has a group mentality, while westerners nowadays almost alli ndividualist.

edit on 2-11-2012 by hououinkyouma because: (no reason given)

the thread is to discuss the relationship between the government and the people, not on people verses people.
i'm unsure why you would try to compare the two?

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
While it is very easy to be an armchair critic, we must look into REALITIES if we are to learn anything from this disaster.

Food, water, preparedness, etc had longed been prepared for normal storms, but most certainly not for a superstorm the size that Sandy was. It was once in a lifetime event, and fortunately, at leat many more lives had been saved by the earlier warnings from the met, govt, and social media.

Secondly, the scope of delivery of aid to victims is much hampered by transportation across greatly flooded zones. The use of helicopters is not the solution as the winds are still strong which will hamper delivery.

Thirdly, the amount of victims are to the tune of millions awaited electrical supply, which the infrastructure was built above ground instead of underground. Generators can be repaired in short time, but the rebuilding the lines will take time.

Fourthly, the subway stations underground electrical units are exposed, not built water-tigt or resistant, thus will be greatly affected by the flooding, which runs for thousands of miles.

Etc, etc.

Hindsight is often easy enough, but this is not a time for blame games as OP had intended this thread for, judging by his first post. If this thread was intended to 'learn lessons', then lets be constructive with facts and not with allegations or unsubstiated beliefs.

no hindsight about it, the local govt dropped the ball, those people should have been forced out, that's what we pay them for you know, guidance during a crisis. there were several sections of NJ and NY that were not mandatory evacuations and i can only think of one reason why, monetary inconvenience. they were too cheap to get the job done.

everything you described, as far as the affects on the people living there, could have been avoided if they were forced to evacuate. you know when you hold a shotgun to someones head, they tend to leave the playstation behind and get the hell out. the NYPD doesn't have a problem breaking constitutional law to make money, but they have a problem forcing people to get out???

Originally posted by butcherguy
In addition to learning that people will be looting, we also learned that there may not be coverage of it (the looting) in the MSM.

edit on 2-11-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

good point, people need to find other venues to stay informed about what's happening in their neighborhoods. the MSM would rather discuss the effects on the election and the economy than helping people survive.

CB radio, short wave radio would be good choices, local people getting together and discussing, that's what you will need.

you need people to realize it's up to us to organize, during or ahead of time, how we will keep things civil and humane while addressing any unlawfulness within the community.

My wife and I went had had a few drinks and a great greasy bar burger last night and talked about our situation. We made plans on short term and long term survival. We have everything we need and now a plan. amazing how a couple of beers can make you think.
I have a diesel tractor but a gas generator. The tractor can charge batteries at just 700 rpm it would run for days on end like that I have a 3kw inverter that could run from those batteries to power the wood stove this is for long term

Short term a 10kw generator is sitting there with 100 gallons of fuel

We would survive no problem just a bump in the road

Originally posted by NotThat
-people won't stock up on enough food or water or fuel even when told to

...and those that do are accused of hoarding, and being a survivalist-prepper-militant-christian-terrorist.

Originally posted by mikellmikell
My wife and I went had had a few drinks and a great greasy bar burger last night and talked about our situation. We made plans on short term and long term survival. We have everything we need and now a plan. amazing how a couple of beers can make you think.
I have a diesel tractor but a gas generator. The tractor can charge batteries at just 700 rpm it would run for days on end like that I have a 3kw inverter that could run from those batteries to power the wood stove this is for long term

Short term a 10kw generator is sitting there with 100 gallons of fuel

We would survive no problem just a bump in the road

good on you Sir, you've done your homework and are part of the solution, i hope you have a lot of kids who can add to the solution.

i'm in the same situation as you, but i still could do more. our neighbors and ourselves is what we have to work with and that should hopefully be obvious to more people now.

organizing on the community level is where it's at and that's no new age thing, it's the foundation our country was built on. it was always the intention of our earliest government to be at it's most powerful at the local and community level and we have collectively allowed that to become null.

when you have a city of 10s of millions what do you do allow it to become a faux island on it's own, or do you integrate it within the surrounding community's? there should have been in place, a contingency plan to aid those millions of people in the safer and less affected community's surrounding them.

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen

Originally posted by NotThat
-people won't stock up on enough food or water or fuel even when told to

...and those that do are accused of hoarding, and being a survivalist-prepper-militant-christian-terrorist.

one has to wonder if that was by design or merely coincidence, my verdict is still out on that one, but great point to make.

reply to post by mikellmikell


That generator and tractor also generate noise, which could possibly attract unwanted attention.

If I was a refugee looking for shelter or food, I would head in the direction the noise is coming from. I'm a friendly guy so I would approach in the open with my hands at my side in full view.

But there are others who will sneak up on a place.

Back on topic, truthfully, I think only a small percentage of people will learn from this experiance. In a month or so, it will be life as usual, for most.

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle

when you have a city of 10s of millions what do you do allow it to become a faux island on it's own, or do you integrate it within the surrounding community's? there should have been in place, a contingency plan to aid those millions of people in the safer and less affected community's surrounding them.

Sounds like your talking about a FEMA Camp don't it?

And even if FEMA Camps exist, their infrastructure would be threatened by storms as well.

I just don't buy the FEMA Camp thing though, purely on the cost factor alone.